The Size of the Alt Timeline Enterprise

Post by **Mike DiCenso** » Wed May 27, 2009 12:38 am

Says the guy who's got the dirty imagination to think of it that way in the first place. ;-)
-Mike

GStone · Post by **GStone** » Wed May 27, 2009 12:55 am

It was so blatant. Plus, even romantics are constantly thinking of sex, just like everyone else.

ILikeDeathNote · Post by **ILikeDeathNote** » Wed May 27, 2009 7:43 am

GStone wrote: Plus, even romantics are constantly thinking of sex, just like everyone else.

Well, Romantic can either refer to "of the Romans" (hence why the word for novel is "roman" in more than a few languages as it is thought that the novel is a continuation of Roman storytelling or something like that, likewise why the Romance languages are called such) or it could refer to attempts to engage in the reproductive cycle (LET'S HAVE SEX!) so yes, romantics would by definition be constantly thinking of sex anyway, or at least all their attitudes and thoughts are at some level an attempt to achieve sex (either that or they're constantly thinking of Rome) :D

Going back to my main point though, which is to say that it's possible for a "small" Enterprise to achieve Scotty's figure statement of one million tons...provided that, well, for example, all empty spaces were filled with crude oil.

Incidentally, isn't Voyager's official mass 750,000 tons?

Praeothmin · Post by **Praeothmin** » Wed May 27, 2009 4:40 pm

I believe it was 700 000 metric Tons...
Although Voyager, at 355 meters long, looks more massive then the E-Nil or the E-A...

Post by **Mike DiCenso** » Thu May 28, 2009 5:17 pm

ILikeDeathNote wrote: Going back to my main point though, which is to say that it's possible for a "small" Enterprise to achieve Scotty's figure statement of one million tons...provided that, well, for example, all empty spaces were filled with crude oil.

But that's just the problem with Scotty's statement, except for a highly obscure terminology of using "gross ton" to mean "long ton", gross tons is used to describe enclosed volume in a ship. If several 400-458 meter long block-shaped supertankers are only 260,000 gross tons, a 300 meter Prime E-1701 is not going to be much more than 7,451,465 cubic feet (211,000 cubic meters) in volume, and so in order to get gross tonnage, we have to divide that number by 100 (a gross ton is 100 cubic feet), and so the TOS E-Prime is going to "only" be about 74,415 GRT.

ILikeDeathNote wrote:Incidentally, isn't Voyager's official mass 750,000 tons?

Actually stated twice to be 700,000 metric tons.
-Mike

Post by **Mike DiCenso** » Thu May 28, 2009 5:25 pm

Praeothmin wrote:I believe it was 700 000 metric Tons...
Although Voyager, at 355 meters long, looks more massive then the E-Nil or the E-A...

But an Intrepid class starship lacks the Constitution class' ample nacelles. In terms of gross tonnage, an Intrepid is 625,885 cubic meters, or 22,102,502 cubic feet. So dividing that by 100 gives us 221,025 GRT for the Intrepid class, or 2.9 times greater enclosed volume than the Constitution class.
-Mike

Post by **Mike DiCenso** » Thu May 28, 2009 8:07 pm

Graham Kennedy at DITL has chimed in on the E-Alt size issue here as well as the warp speed issue. He estimates 1,138 meters for the E-Alt, and that the ship was at warp no more than 12 hours. However given all of the constraints the E-Alt most likely only about 2 hours to reach Vulcan across 16 light years.
-Mike

Praeothmin · Post by **Praeothmin** » Fri May 29, 2009 1:39 pm

Mike D wrote:Graham Kennedy at DITL has chimed in on the E-Alt size issue here as well as the warp speed issue. He estimates 1,138 meters for the E-Alt, and that the ship was at warp no more than 12 hours. However given all of the constraints the E-Alt most likely only about 2 hours to reach Vulcan across 16 light years.

Well, concerning the size, he bases it entirely on the one shot of the shuttle coming in with the Cadets.
The other shot, of Pike coming out, points to a thinner shuttle bay, and a 700-800meter E-alt.
A scene with humans on the nacelles point to nacelles of 40 meters of width at the "wings", again pointing to a 700-800 meter ship.
The "window/viewscreen" as you had claculated also does this, so there are far more scenes pointing to a 700-800 meter size then a greater one.
But in no way is it 300 meters like the old E-nil... :)

As for the speed issue, in his defense he is looking for a maximum plausible timeframe, to be on the safe side, but the logical timeframe should be less then an hour IMO.

He estimates about 2 hours to find out Kirk "cheated", then file a complaint, then assemble the Starfleet officials and conduct the hearing.
In reality, that wouldn't even happen in the same day, but since Starfleet is more efficient, lets say it does: it would still definitely take more then 2-3 hours to do it...

ILikeDeathNote · Post by **ILikeDeathNote** » Fri May 29, 2009 8:59 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:Graham Kennedy at DITL has chimed in on the E-Alt size issue here as well as the warp speed issue. He estimates 1,138 meters for the E-Alt, and that the ship was at warp no more than 12 hours.

Sounds like Graham's being Graham and just giving more fuel for Wong and others to continue to discredit him as an overzealous Trekkie fanboy.

Post by **Mike DiCenso** » Sat May 30, 2009 1:05 am

Which only would show their hypocrisy given their overzealous excessive wanking up of Star Wars technology and firepower.
-Mike

2046 · Post by **2046** » Sun May 31, 2009 4:37 am

That was not a conclusion, just the result of a measurement.

Praeothmin · Post by **Praeothmin** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:34 pm

2046 wrote:That was not a conclusion, just the result of a measurement.

If you'ra talking about the size issue, you're right.
the problem is, as I said, that he bases it entirely on only 1 comparative instances, when there are many more that point to a slightly smaller E-alt.

ILDN wrote:Sounds like Graham's being Graham and just giving more fuel for Wong and others to continue to discredit him as an overzealous Trekkie fanboy.

Well, I have to disagree here.
I've been on the DITL forums for a while lately, and I've seen Graham dabate and he brings very interesting points pretty much everytime.
He's usually a strong debater and a good analyzer, it's just this time where he based his conclusions on 1 comparative instance for his article.
In the forums, he goes for a more sensible 700 something meters.
I think in his article, he simply wanted to use caution and calculate what he felt were the extremes in both speeds and size...

Post by **Mike DiCenso** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:36 am

In fairness, Graham makes it clear on the DITL main page update section that the ST XI article is a "work in progress", so he is continuing to add to it over time. His latest addition is a quick look at a couple of the other starships in the Starfleet rescue task force. So once this movie goes to DVD sometime in the next several months, expect the article to undergo a major revamping.
-Mike