Federation territory

[Cocytus]

What kind of modern car? Sure, driving a Taurus at 120 mph will wear out its components much faster, but Voyager isn't a Taurus. It's a Ferrari. It's designed for high speeds. Its variable geometry nacelles and dynamic contours testify to that.

The tire example was a bad one, I grant. Cars are affected by forces like wind resistance and friction, which aren't issues for Voyager. While the ship might otherwise expect some resistance from the sparse interstellar medium, that's what the deflector is for: to sweep the ship's path clear of particles. Fuel efficiency shouldn't be a constraint on speed either. If the ship mixes an equal amount of deuterium and antideuterium, the reaction should be 100 percent efficient regardless of speed. The only constraining factor on coil life should be the amount of energy they can tolerate before degrading.

I could borrow more figures from DITL, but there's not much point. The Equinox's coils tolerated 262,000c for 14 days. Yes, I know their drive was enhanced, but all that energy was still flowing over the warp coils. If the far less capable Equinox's coils could tolerate that, and if the slower E-D expected to average 9000c, I still have trouble accepting Voyager was capable of averaging a measly 1000c. In "Relativity" Janeway explicitly mentions Voyager's top cruising speed to be warp 9.975. The ship is designed to tolerate that speed for extended periods.

[Roondar]

The car analogy might be flawed then, because a Ferrari will still burn out quicker at higher speeds than at lower speeds. This is a fact of life - use something mechanic (anything really) at a higher level and you'll wear it out faster.

The point I'm trying to make is that we can't just dismiss variable levels of wear and tear just because they don't support our viewpoint of how things should be.

In this case, the idea of higher levels of wear and tear being part of the reason (along with fuel availability) the cruising speed outside Federation territory is lower than inside it makes perfect sense. It fits with the available evidence.

It even fits with the E-D getting a better result - the E-D was built for long term exploration and naturally would therefore do better at long range flight than Voyager, which was built as a speedy 'scout on steroids'.

And it even fits with Voyagers top cruising speed - it may be able to hold to warp 9.975 for an extended period. Maybe even until it runs out of fuel. But that doesn't mean that would be enough to get them home, or that this would not lead them into the wear-and-tear issues I've noted earlier.

The series itself make it clear that the actual cruising speed is closer to the warp 6.5 I've noted earlier. Seems to me that this, coupled with your posts, supports my idea rather than detracts from it.

[Cocytus]

I'm not trying to discount the canon, Roondar. Voyager averaged 1000c, what I'd like to know are the precise reasons why.

I'm rewatching the first season DVDs as we debate. Every time Voyager's capabilities have been described, (In "Caretaker" and "Relativity," so far) warp 9.975 is explicitly mentioned at the ship's maximum cruise or maximum sustainable warp factor. By definition, max cruise should be the optimum speed for efficiency and component endurance. Fuel availability I have some problems with. Deuterium is an isotope of hydrogen, which accounts for as much as 75% of the visible matter in the universe (dark matter and dark energy excluded of course). Even if they couldn't find deuterium, which is improbable enough ("Demon" is a decisive anomaly) they could make it by bombarding atomic hydrogen with neutrons, the same way we make plutonium and uranium isotopes.

1000c was likely the highest speed they could manage while minimizing their repair downtime. Voyager got knocked around pretty badly by the Caretaker's displacement wave, resulting in a microfracture of the warp core. They reduced speed to avoid putting any undue pressure on the core. The coils were also undoubtedly a patchwork after the events of "Investigations," requiring far more maintenance than normal. I'd bet an Intrepid with undamaged coils could go far longer than 7 years at 1000c. The Enterprise D certainly averaged far higher than 1000c before its coils were (presumably) overhauled after 6 years, and its coils weren't designed to tolerate the kinds of velocities Voyager's can. I think the ship never quite recovered from the damage it initially sustained in Caretaker.

You describe Voyager as a scout ship. The purpose of a scout is reconnaissance, which requires the ability to scan large areas quickly. An Intrepid class would have to maintain high warp for weeks without overextending its warp systems. I'm pretty confident in the ability of undamaged ships to maintain considerable warp velocities as long as they have the requisite supplies, whether those supplies be from a starbase or what they gather on their own beyond Federation borders. All this evidence in hand, I stand by my earlier assertion that Starfleet could readily field transgalactic missions and expect them to reach their destination in a few years. Voyager's average of 1000c should by no means by regarded as typical of Federation ships.

[l33telboi]

Fuel availability I have some problems with. Deuterium is an isotope of hydrogen, which accounts for as much as 75% of the visible matter in the universe (dark matter and dark energy excluded of course).

One thing I'd like to point out. Deuterium is what they use for sub-light propulsion, if memory serves. They use antimatter for faster then light travel.

[Kazeite]

Actually, they use deuterium and antideuterium to create plasma for FTL travels :)

[Praeothmin]

Deuterium is certainly easy enough to create, but, as it has been noted earlier, Dilithium crystals are not, and they are a key component of Warp travel.

And by the way, although a Ferrari will be able to run faster then, say, a Ford Focus, it will still require extremelly high maintenance if you push it at its top speeds for extended periods of time.

Look at race cars, for example.
They're made to tolerate extreme speeds, and yet are almost as maintenance extensive as Fighter planes.

Whether it's a Warp core or a Jet engine, the more you push it, the more damage will be done to it.

And scout vehicules in today's military can be just as maintenance extensive as main Battle vehicules.
The difference is, they'll have higher speeds to get in and out of enemy territory quicker (making very good for recon missions), they'll have extensive electronic equipment (ECM, ECCM, etc...) and less powerful weapons, and lighter armor.

The same difference between, say, Voyager and the E-D.

A scout without a ressuply base is as fubared as any other ship, IMO.

[Cocytus]

I noted that, as I recall. I remembered Voyager finding dilithium somewhere. The dilithium deposits in "The Phage" turned out to be fake, unfortunately. I'm going through the episodes to see if they found some anywhere else.

My original point was that the ship could maintain a higher average velocity because she had the materials to service and replace the engine components. It now appears I overestimated exactly how much raw material they had on hand.

[Roondar]

Well, it's possible that they just didn't have the materials/ability on hand to properly serve the core itself.

We know they can replace the coils, but I've not heard anything about the warp core itself. It could be the limiting factor here, along with how easy it is for Voyager to get antimatter (note that if they produce it themselves they'll likely need tons and tons of fusion materials to get that done - creating antimatter is not that easy nor is it stuff you just find lying about).

[Kazeite]

Well, I have this theory here...

You see, warp core works by colliding deuterium and anti-deuterium inside dilithium crystals (which controls the whole process), which creates plasma, which is then pumped through EPS conduits to nacelles.

And I can't help but notice, that of all the elements, dilithium crystals seem to be the weakest part of this chain. I mean, when Bad Stuff (tm) starts to happen to propulsion system, it usually starts with the warp core, right?

So, assuming I'm right, it means that if you could get better dilithium crystals, you could get better speeds from the same system.

Scary thing is, that's the idea behind "Threshold" - the stuff that allows Voyager to build Warp-10 shuttle are better dilithium crystals they stumbled upon :)

[Praeothmin]

You mean, like the plots that Voyager writers stumbled upon, show after show?

:)

[Cocytus]

Well, it's possible that they just didn't have the materials/ability on hand to properly serve the core itself.

We know they can replace the coils, but I've not heard anything about the warp core itself. It could be the limiting factor here, along with how easy it is for Voyager to get antimatter (note that if they produce it themselves they'll likely need tons and tons of fusion materials to get that done - creating antimatter is not that easy nor is it stuff you just find lying about).

That's probably one of the functions served by the ship's fusion reactors. I know the E-D had at least nine, which were likely used to sustain the ship's antimatter reserves. After all, you wouldn't need nine fusion reactors just to power the lights.

All this evidence considered, it looks like the condition of the warpcore is indeed the limiting factor on Voyager's speed. The core was fractured by the trip to the delta quadrant. They undoubtedly reinforced the core, and can use high warp for shorter periods than would otherwise be possible with an undamaged warp core. They must maintain a lower average velocity to avoid taxing the core, because it's the main component that should be practically impossible to simply improvise a replacement for. (Strangely enough, it sure as hell looks like Voyager has two warp cores if you examine the MSD closely, but since it's never been mentioned by any character, I'm just ignoring it)

[Roondar]

Well, it's possible that they just didn't have the materials/ability on hand to properly serve the core itself.

We know they can replace the coils, but I've not heard anything about the warp core itself. It could be the limiting factor here, along with how easy it is for Voyager to get antimatter (note that if they produce it themselves they'll likely need tons and tons of fusion materials to get that done - creating antimatter is not that easy nor is it stuff you just find lying about).

That's probably one of the functions served by the ship's fusion reactors. I know the E-D had at least nine, which were likely used to sustain the ship's antimatter reserves. After all, you wouldn't need nine fusion reactors just to power the lights.

They probably do need nine of them for the exploding consoles and killer holodeck though ;)

[SailorSaturn13]

Note that a race car CANNOT survive a typical race without multiple pit stops (i.e. needs maintenance each 2 km), whereas a regular car can go much greater distances before check (>2000 km).
Take a better analogy. Let's take a world sprint (100 m) champion and place him 100 miles out of his town. Let's also assume there is water and food supply around. The champion wont even ATTEMPT to run - he knows better. He will WALK home, and this will be fastest and safest way, unless he can find a pick-up. A marathon runner, by contrast would run, slower than he runs for a medal (with distance some 32+ miles), but faster then walking.

THe maximal SUSTAINABLE (thus possible on long runs without maintenanse) speed of voyager is below warp 8.

[Cocytus]

The maximum sustainable speed of Voyager after getting the hell beat out of it was below warp 8. In "Caretaker" Lieutenant Stadi specifically mentioned the sustainable cruise velocity warp factor 9.975. That's a verbatim quote. I'm watching the pertinent part of the episode as I type. Janeway again describes the ship's abilities in "Relativity" mentioning a top cruising speed of warp 9.975.

That's been my problem all along, and I've been trying to rationalize it with the fact that Voyager averages a speed far below what it should be able to. The simplest explanation is that Voyager is not up to spec, and didn't have as much in the way of supplies as I had originally assumed.

[Praeothmin]

Note that a race car CANNOT survive a typical race without multiple pit stops (i.e. needs maintenance each 2 km), whereas a regular car can go much greater distances before check (>2000 km).

But if the regular car always travelled at, or near, its top speed, like the race car does, it would definitly need more maintenance then once every 2000 km.

Even if Voyager is more akin to a regular car then to a racecar, it will still not be able to run at it's maximum speeds for long.

We need to find out what is meant by "top cruising speed".
Does "Caretaker" really say "sustainable"?
I thought Warp 9.975 was always mentioned as "maximum" or "top" cruising speed...