About me supposedly ignoring evidence

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Not only does this assume the DS came out of hyperspace stationary, it ignores the fact that without mass lightening and inertial dapening the DS would tear itself apart under such thrust.

1. "Mass lightening" is a Star Trek exclusive term.

2. Inertial dampening has nothing to do with this.

3. You are assuming that the DS decreased its mass/stress to deal with the problem, instead of its hull being incredibly tough, despite the latter being more scientifically plausible and not requiring making up non-mentioned technologies into the fray.

[2046]

Wait, was Kor on to something just now when demanding that statements be dealt with? Am I detecting the irony of SWST ignoring evidence posted in this thread about SWST ignoring evidence?

Meta-ignorance! Awesome.

[Lucky]

Not only does this assume the DS came out of hyperspace stationary, it ignores the fact that without mass lightening and inertial dapening the DS would tear itself apart under such thrust.

1. "Mass lightening" is a Star Trek exclusive term.

The term is never used in Star Trek as far as I can remember, and there are plenty of EU sources(you always want to include the Star Wars EU) that talk about mass lower tech being why Star Wars ships never use their supposed speed they only use off screen in combat.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

1. "Mass lightening" is a Star Trek exclusive term.

Wrong pal the EU you jerk off on constantly has it as well.

2. Inertial dampening has nothing to do with this.

Really?, lets see your number 3.

3. You are assuming that the DS decreased its mass/stress to deal with the problem, instead of its hull being incredibly tough, despite the latter being more scientifically plausible and not requiring making up non-mentioned technologies into the fray.

The latter is not more probable and the EU you jerk off on all the time clearly mentions mass lightening and the very fact the crew of ships do not get turned into paste every time the ships accelerate shows they have inertial dampening.

Tales of the Bounty Hunters

p. 60 wrote:
When Boba Fett again refused to answer, IG-88 increased his speed to tolerance levels, narrowing the gap between his ship and the Slave I. He rode tight in the bowshock from Fett's ship. But suddenly, in a remarkable move, Boba Fett activated his inertial damping system, slamming his descent to a halt in the atmosphere of Tattooine. The stress and power required for such a maneuver utterly trashed his hyperdrives. IG-88 zoomed past him, unable to squelch his velocity sufficiently. He brought the IG-2000 to a halt in less than two seconds- directly in the targeting cross of Fett's ship.

"Dark Voyage to Tatooine,"

p 31, wrote:

At that moment, Fett activated the Slave I's unique inertial dampening system, abruptly halting the craft's speedy descent, though at the cost of destroying the ship's hyperdrive engines. The IG-2000 swept past in an instant, directly into the path of Slave I's weaponry.

In both cases, the individuals are reversing the inertial compensators and therefore increasing the inertia of their craft. By the principle of Conservation of Momentum, their velocity must therefore decrease as their effective mass increases (it may be an increase in actual mass).

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

You also ignored this.

SHIELDING:

Horray!

Star Trek shields


"RELICS" is courtesy of Mike Wong, here:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... ield1.html

So let me get this straight:

The Enterprise was FINE as it was entering orbit of the star. However, a solar flare hit it, and its shields went down to 23%.

At 150,000 km.

1. The ship was at 150,000km for a significant amount of time prior to the flare that caused them to raise the shields.

2.The ship and its main systems were already damaged so when the shields were raised they were at 23%.

3. It is clearly stated that the solar flares are going to get worse and yet the shields could last 3 hours of pounding from them (so if the flare knocked them down to 23% then how could they last 3 hours of even worse pounding).

[Lucky]

You also ignored this.

SHIELDING:

Horray!

Star Trek shields


"RELICS" is courtesy of Mike Wong, here:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... ield1.html

So let me get this straight:

The Enterprise was FINE as it was entering orbit of the star. However, a solar flare hit it, and its shields went down to 23%.

At 150,000 km.

1. The ship was at 150,000km for a significant amount of time prior to the flare that caused them to raise the shields.

2.The ship and its main systems were already damaged so when the shields were raised they were at 23%.

3. It is clearly stated that the solar flares are going to get worse and yet the shields could last 3 hours of pounding from them (so if the flare knocked them down to 23% then how could they last 3 hours of even worse pounding).

Wasn't the E-D running on the backup power-source to the backup power-source?

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

You also ignored this.

SHIELDING:

Horray!

Star Trek shields


"RELICS" is courtesy of Mike Wong, here:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... ield1.html

So let me get this straight:

The Enterprise was FINE as it was entering orbit of the star. However, a solar flare hit it, and its shields went down to 23%.

At 150,000 km.

1. The ship was at 150,000km for a significant amount of time prior to the flare that caused them to raise the shields.

2.The ship and its main systems were already damaged so when the shields were raised they were at 23%.

3. It is clearly stated that the solar flares are going to get worse and yet the shields could last 3 hours of pounding from them (so if the flare knocked them down to 23% then how could they last 3 hours of even worse pounding).

Wasn't the E-D running on the backup power-source to the backup power-source?

Ensign : 'We've lost main power, auxiliary power down to 20%.'

Worf : 'We are being pulled inside.'

Ensign : 'Auxiliary power failing.'

Seems like it.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

I did not ignore such a thing. I did respond to it. More specifically, that shields were ordered up as soon as the Enterprise was hit with a few megajoules of radiation coming from a solar flare.

Provide evidence that the Death Star used mass lightening or inertial dampeners in regards to its hull, when your quotes suggest that inertial dampening is used to protect the pilots and completely failed to protect its hyperdrive engines, whereas the hull of Slave 1 was not explicitly damaged.

[Picard]

NOW I know why Star Trek won't stand a chance against Star Wars...

Meet new Star Wars superweapooon...

...IGNORANCE!!!

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

I did not ignore such a thing. I did respond to it. More specifically, that shields were ordered up as soon as the Enterprise was hit with a few megajoules of radiation coming from a solar flare.

1. I accept your concession that the E-D sat 150,000km from a star with shields down for a considerable but unknown amount of time with no concern for a time limit for doing so shown by the crew.

2. Maybe you should mention it to your lord and master wong so he can update his site.

3. So we can say the E-D'S hull alone is not troubled by at least double digit terawatts of energy hitting it for a unknown amount of time even if we use wongs calcs to determine the stars output (and i will not as it is way lowballed).

4. You will obviously show how many MJ were in those flares and how much they increased obviously, especially when your lord and master calculated that even without the solar flare the E-D was getting hit by TeraWatt levels on its hull.

Provide evidence that the Death Star used mass lightening or inertial dampeners in regards to its hull, when your quotes suggest that inertial dampening is used to protect the pilots and completely failed to protect its hyperdrive engines, whereas the hull of Slave 1 was not explicitly damaged.

I just did, but for more we have the fact that as ships dock we see stormtroopers outside standing on the hull (as well as gunners firing out of windows during the trench run), then there are the turbo laser towers and the crews so unless they are gonna get left behind (or splatted against the hull depending on what direction it accelerates) as the DS moves it is obvious that the inertial dampening (and mass lightening due to the conservation of momentum issue) extends past the hull.

It is interesting that no other systems on the ship were effected like the hyperdrive but then that is very likely due to the touchy nature of hyperdrives.

[General Donner]

The latter is not more probable and the EU you jerk off on all the time clearly mentions mass lightening and the very fact the crew of ships do not get turned into paste every time the ships accelerate shows they have inertial dampening.

Inertial dampers dont all come alike. They don't all effectively lessen mass -- some just counteract acceleration somehow.

And if the kind that did reduce mass by orders of magnitude were written plausibly the characters would die anyway from instant failure of every bodily process... XD

Tales of the Bounty Hunters

p. 60 wrote:
When Boba Fett again refused to answer, IG-88 increased his speed to tolerance levels, narrowing the gap between his ship and the Slave I. He rode tight in the bowshock from Fett's ship. But suddenly, in a remarkable move, Boba Fett activated his inertial damping system, slamming his descent to a halt in the atmosphere of Tattooine. The stress and power required for such a maneuver utterly trashed his hyperdrives. IG-88 zoomed past him, unable to squelch his velocity sufficiently. He brought the IG-2000 to a halt in less than two seconds- directly in the targeting cross of Fett's ship.

"Dark Voyage to Tatooine,"

p 31, wrote:

At that moment, Fett activated the Slave I's unique inertial dampening system, abruptly halting the craft's speedy descent, though at the cost of destroying the ship's hyperdrive engines. The IG-2000 swept past in an instant, directly into the path of Slave I's weaponry.

In both cases, the individuals are reversing the inertial compensators and therefore increasing the inertia of their craft. By the principle of Conservation of Momentum, their velocity must therefore decrease as their effective mass increases (it may be an increase in actual mass).

It's the same individual and the same event described in two different books, actually. The former an anthology edited by Warsie and Dune fan terror Kevin J Anderson, Certified Hack. The latter a really old WEG RPG book, Galaxy Guide 5.

It does also say the system is "unique" to Slave I though which makes me doubt you should cite this particular bit to support the mass lightening stuff being in universal use across the galaxy. Not that Sarli didn't write that nonsense into his RPG book of course ...

(Damn how I hate that stuff really I do...)

But kudos for finding that really old sourcebook stuff. I actually had to google the story name to remember the book it was in, and then went to check. Do you collect WEG books too?

[Lucky]

The latter is not more probable and the EU you jerk off on all the time clearly mentions mass lightening and the very fact the crew of ships do not get turned into paste every time the ships accelerate shows they have inertial dampening.

Inertial dampers dont all come alike. They don't all effectively lessen mass -- some just counteract acceleration somehow.

And if the kind that did reduce mass by orders of magnitude were written plausibly the characters would die anyway from instant failure of every bodily process... XD

Tales of the Bounty Hunters

p. 60 wrote:
When Boba Fett again refused to answer, IG-88 increased his speed to tolerance levels, narrowing the gap between his ship and the Slave I. He rode tight in the bowshock from Fett's ship. But suddenly, in a remarkable move, Boba Fett activated his inertial damping system, slamming his descent to a halt in the atmosphere of Tattooine. The stress and power required for such a maneuver utterly trashed his hyperdrives. IG-88 zoomed past him, unable to squelch his velocity sufficiently. He brought the IG-2000 to a halt in less than two seconds- directly in the targeting cross of Fett's ship.

"Dark Voyage to Tatooine,"

p 31, wrote:

At that moment, Fett activated the Slave I's unique inertial dampening system, abruptly halting the craft's speedy descent, though at the cost of destroying the ship's hyperdrive engines. The IG-2000 swept past in an instant, directly into the path of Slave I's weaponry.

In both cases, the individuals are reversing the inertial compensators and therefore increasing the inertia of their craft. By the principle of Conservation of Momentum, their velocity must therefore decrease as their effective mass increases (it may be an increase in actual mass).

It's the same individual and the same event described in two different books, actually. The former an anthology edited by Warsie and Dune fan terror Kevin J Anderson, Certified Hack. The latter a really old WEG RPG book, Galaxy Guide 5.

It does also say the system is "unique" to Slave I though which makes me doubt you should cite this particular bit to support the mass lightening stuff being in universal use across the galaxy. Not that Sarli didn't write that nonsense into his RPG book of course ...

(Damn how I hate that stuff really I do...)

But kudos for finding that really old sourcebook stuff. I actually had to google the story name to remember the book it was in, and then went to check. Do you collect WEG books too?

http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum/view ... 1325&hilit
Travel in Realspace:

"Starships also have ion drives capable of incredible acceleration (thousands of times the force of gravity) due to a combination of exceptional thrust and manipulation of the starship's mass relative to its exhaust. In addition, repulsorlift drives are preferred for delicate maneuvering during takeoff and landing. In fact, the mass manipulation that makes ion drives so efficient in deep space is markedly less efficient in atmosphere, so almost all starships use both drives in conjunction during atmospheric flight, particularly when near the surface of a planet."

[General Donner]

Yeah that's Sarli's stuff I was talking about. Your link doesn't work but I don't need it. I can go by memory. That'd be from "Starships of the Galaxy" from the D20 RPG. Cookie? ;)

It does say there the mass lightening nonsense is common. In doing so it seemingly contradicts Galaxy Guide. It is however there.

Though honestly I think there are fewer books mentioning the mass lightening than there are that claims ICS level firepower. Or at least there was back when I was still collecting them.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Sarli openly worked towards a reconciliation of Saxton's figures and a rationalization, putting them in perspective.
So instead of raw power, he came with mass lightening.
Still, the figures remain one to three OoMs superior to the accelerations' higher ends.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

You still do not provide any evidence of your made up mass lightening in Star Wars.

Even if aux power is being used, shields tend to be a hit point orientated mechanic, so why would they be affected? Why would aux power be several oom weaker than main power? Furthermore, what evidence is there that the Enterprise was hit by significant solar flares? As I recall, solar flares are largely invisible to the naked eye.

There's also the question as to how the habitats were capable of supporting life if the star really were OOM's more deadly than a G phase star.