Luke Skywalker boards the Enterprise

[User1601]

Can they stop Q?

No. I don't remember an encounter between Q and a forcefield in TNG, but Quinn walks right through one of Voyager's forcefields in "Death Wish." Kes walks through another in "Fury." The space twisting phenomenon overwhelms a forcefield in "Twisted." A member of Species 8472 physically batters one down in "Prey." A lab forcefield (a quarantine field) is overwhelmed by the microbrains in "Home Soil," even with full shield backup.

That's all I can think of right now. As to whether they could contain Luke or not, nothing Luke demonstrated in the films is remotely comparable to the older Kes, to say nothing of Q.

Don't forget Charlie X walking through a force-field.

In AotC, meanwhile, Obi-wan is restrained by a little bitty force-field that binds his hands and feet-- and that's under the inferior SW-level tech; meanwhile in TPM, both Obi-wan and Qui-gon are held up by the force-fields of the power-station on Naboo, when they're fighting Darth Maul.

Clearly, Jedi have no power over even the wimpiest Force-fields.

[Trinoya]

In AotC, meanwhile, Obi-wan is restrained by a little bitty force-field that binds his hands and feet-- and that's under the inferior SW-level tech.

There you go again just making blanketed claims without backing them up. You can, naturally, prove that the 'little bitty force-field' isn't powerful, right? Or is that just your opinion....

[User1601]

In AotC, meanwhile, Obi-wan is restrained by a little bitty force-field that binds his hands and feet-- and that's under the inferior SW-level tech.

There you go again just making blanketed claims without backing them up. You can, naturally, prove that the 'little bitty force-field' isn't powerful, right? Or is that just your opinion....

That's a baseless objection... as usual.

While I'm not obliged to respond to frivolous challenges, it obviously couldn't have been any more powerful than the other force-fields on Geonosis, which couldn't even stop the Attack of the Clones-- or even the advancing Jedi before them; and Geonosis, as we know, was the factory-planet of the Battle-droids, and would be protected by the best they had.

In contrast, even the shields on a Star Trek booby-hatch planet can stop the Enterprise from blasting through at full phasers-- at the weakest point!

[Trinoya]

It's not baseless at all, your dishonesty on the subject is quite interesting.

You claim that the forcefileds holding Obi-Wan are weak. You have failed to back up that claim at all, denoting that they 'some how' didn't stop the clones, which pretained in no way to what was asked of you. I can only presume you some how confused the theater shield we see in TCW, though how you brought that into a discussion on Obi-Wans restrains is beyond me.

I digress. The subject matter at hand was the force-field of a starfleet ship and you claiming the 'force fields' holding obi-wan are weak, with no evidence what so ever except your opinion and now your speculation. You even start to compare dedicated planetary shields to Obi-Wans restraints as evidence of how 'weak' they must be!

The saddest part about this all is even with the leeway many members are giving you you're still being rude as ever to the lot of them and quite ignorant of your subject matter... or even what you're currently debating.

[User1601]

It's not baseless at all, your dishonesty

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL------------^

[Trinoya]

So you refuse to defend your statements. Got it, they were opinion only, as I suspected.

[User1598]

Then you doubt the laws of physics. Canon says that the Force is an energy-field, and Enterprise force-fields can stop any type of energy.

Can they stop Q?

Nobody ever said Q used energy, so that's a complete non-sequitur... got any more?
In Deja Q, he said that his power worked by changing universal constants.
Meanwhile Jedi-powers are, like Han said, "a lot of simple tricks and nonsense."

Actually, Q suggested changing the gravitational constant of the universe in order to perturb the orbit of a moon about to crash into a planet. It was the most expedient solution to a specific problem, and it doesn't mean that's the mechanism or the extent of his abilities.

Since we've seen that Q can affect both matter and energy, and in "Deja Q" he made explicit reference to Newtonian physics, this suggests that his powers are operable within the framework of our physical realm. Since within this physical realm, wherein several forces and energies and states of matter exist, Q exerts influence, it is a tenable conclusion that he has abilities which are both by and of these same principles. So the question is, if you wish to make matter do something, what do generally you use? Why, energy!

You however seem to be suggesting that Q's powers are some magical mystery, simply because nobody ever explicitly said in dialogue how they work, am I correct? I mean, I must point out that in the first place you were factually incorrect about Q's statement, then you seem to be asserting that nothing Q does employs energy. Considering the claim that the Enterprise force fields can stop "any type of energy," it seems rather too convenient to characterize anything the force fields don't stop as non-energy, doesn't it? I'm sorry, but, I hope you will reconsider your position if this is its only basis.

[Khas]

Why do I get the feeling that this debate is just going to turn into this?

[Khas]

Nobody ever said Q used energy, so that's a complete non-sequitur... got any more?
In Deja Q, he said that his power worked by changing universal constants.
Meanwhile Jedi-powers are, like Han said, "a lot of simple tricks and nonsense."
Actually, Q suggested changing the gravitational constant of the universe in order to perturb the orbit of a moon about to crash into a planet. It was the most expedient solution to a specific problem, and it doesn't mean that's the mechanism or the extent of his abilities.

Since we've seen that Q can affect both matter and energy, and in "Deja Q" made explicit reference to Newtonian physics, this suggests that his powers are operable within the framework of our physical realm. Since within this physical realm, wherein several forces and energies and states of matter exist, Q exerts influence, it is a tenable conclusion that he has abilities which are both by and of these same principles. So the question is, if you wish to make matter do something, what do generally you use? Why, energy!

You however seem to be suggesting that Q's powers are some magical mystery, simply because nobody ever explicitly said in dialogue how they work, am I correct? I mean, I must point out that in the first place you were factually incorrect about Q's statement, then you seem to be asserting that nothing Q does employs energy. Considering the claim that the Enterprise force fields can stop "any type of energy," it seems rather too convenient to characterize anything the force fields don't stop as non-energy, doesn't it? I'm sorry, but, I hope you will reconsider your position if this is its only basis.

Yeah. The force fields do have limits. It all depends on if you can overpower them or not.

[Praeothmin]

Yeah, Force fields stop every type of energy...
How does Telepathy work, then?
Magical subspace tunnels are created through which one sends his thoughts?

And the Force Fields didn't stop the Borg from beaming through them... :)

[User1601]

Nobody ever said Q used energy, so that's a complete non-sequitur... got any more?
In Deja Q, he said that his power worked by changing universal constants.
Meanwhile Jedi-powers are, like Han said, "a lot of simple tricks and nonsense."

Actually, Q suggested changing the gravitational constant of the universe

Becaus that's how HE did it, before he lost his power.
CONTEXT!

It was the most expedient solution to a specific problem, and it doesn't mean that's the mechanism or the extent of his abilities.

Not the extent, but that's the mechanism he would have used otherwise. Obviously, Geordi couldn't do it-- Q was speaking for himself, and saying he couldn't do it since he lost his powers.

Since we've seen that Q can affect both matter and energy, and in "Deja Q" made explicit reference to Newtonian physics, this suggests that his powers are operable within the framework of our physical realm.

No it doesn't (since he was talking about CHANGING those physics), but for the sake of argument:

Since within this physical realm, wherein several forces and energies and states of matter exist, Q exerts influence, it is a tenable conclusion that he has abilities which are both by and of these same principles.

Again, it really isn't-- but finally:

So the question is, if you wish to make matter do something, what do generally you use? Why, energy!

Wow... that's what we call "Mary Lou Rhetoric:" a rhetorical non-sequitur question, based on a "tenable conclusion," all resting on a "suggestion." That's got to be the most tortured logic I've seen in... well this thread.

Sorry, but one can't change the gravitational constant of the universe using energy.

[User1601]

Yeah, Force fields stop every type of energy...
How does Telepathy work, then?
Magical subspace tunnels are created through which one sends his thoughts?

It's never been said. If you have any evidence that it's energy, then put up or shut up.
But it's a fact that ST shields can stop any type of energy: electromagnetic, gravitational, strong forces and weak forces.

Maybe telepathy isn't energy-based.

And the Force Fields didn't stop the Borg from beaming through them... :)

Borg ADAPT to shields, duh. Jedi don't adapt-- hell, they're still using SWORDS, for St. Peter's sake. In fact the whole Jedi galaxy thrives on stagnation.

[User1598]

Becaus that's how HE did it, before he lost his power.
CONTEXT!

When did Q change the gravitational constant to influence the orbit of a moon?

Not the extent, but that's the mechanism he would have used otherwise. Obviously, Geordi couldn't do it-- he was speaking for himself.

That's the mechanism he would have used to alter the gravitational attraction of two planetary bodies, yes.

Anyway, I have little interest in exchanging insults, so I'm going to capitulate and find a more rational discussion. Feel free to accuse me of running away because I don't know what I'm talking about, or what have you.

[User1601]

Was I insulting you? I'm sorry.

Becaus that's how HE did it, before he lost his power.
CONTEXT!

When did Q change the gravitational constant to influence the orbit of a moon?

He didn't, since he lost his powers in that episode; that's simply how he said Geordi should do it, since Q said that's how he would do it if he had his powers.

Not the extent, but that's the mechanism he would have used otherwise. Obviously, Geordi couldn't do it-- he was speaking for himself.

That's the mechanism he would have used to alter the gravitational attraction of two planetary bodies, yes.

Indicating that he COULD do it-- which means that he didn't operate solely by manipulating energy, but the very laws by which it operated.

Many mis-readings, are created by ministerpreted meaning, rather than calculations; at SDN, for example, Wong & Co. base entire universes on misinterpreted readings-- largely due to wishful thinking, but misinterpreted nontheless, such as how they twist the words of Lucas and others in order to "prove" that the EU is canon.

[Mike DiCenso]

Don't forget Charlie X walking through a force-field.

Charlie didn't walk through an active force field, he made the door emitters go away first, then walked out through the huge gap in the corrider wall where it all used to be.

In AotC, meanwhile, Obi-wan is restrained by a little bitty force-field that binds his hands and feet-- and that's under the inferior SW-level tech; meanwhile in TPM, both Obi-wan and Qui-gon are held up by the force-fields of the power-station on Naboo, when they're fighting Darth Maul.

Clearly, Jedi have no power over even the wimpiest Force-fields.

I have to agree with everyone else here. What makes you think that the force fields seen holding Obi-Wan suspended in the air are "wimpy"? BTW, we see a very similar Jedi/Sith restraining field in the recent TCW episode "The Citadel" which was capable of holding even the very experianced and powerful Jedi Master Even Piell, so this might be a rare technology in the SW universe, but it is far from a one time only thing.

Anakin and Obi-Wan were also stopped and held captive in ray shield containment fields on the Invisible Hand.
-Mike