The Death Star's power output confirmed!

[Praeothmin]

But even a non DET beam can have significant "brute force" power as part of its mechanism.

Exactly, and no one is denying the DS has a shitload of power, people are just saying it's not "ALL" brute force, and the DET portion of the beam cannot perform the onscreen feat by itself...

[Mr. Oragahn]

Nobody said that the superlaser was funky and exotic, given that it's powered by some sort of tachyon hypermatter reactor. But DET does not exclude funky effects. Having a sec explosion or having weird halo rings does not mask the fact that the planet was still blown to rubble and its mass omnidirectionally overcoming GBE, nor should an intelligent person come to the hilariously insane leap in logic that "exotic reactor used to generate e32 joules" means "exotic reactor really just generated e21 joules and the rest of the energy came from voodoo land!". Exotic energy source means in this case using exotic nature to generate MORE energy to do X, not to do X somehow by using LESS energy.

Frankly, I'm quite enticed to point out that someone intelligent would know that what you wrote just there is complete crap.
Not only you decide that you can alter history and rewrite the arguments of those who I have debated countless times and whom you pick your own arguments from, but you also completely make absurd leaps of logic that are truly baffling.

When you say "nobody said that the superlaser was funky and exotic, given that it's powered by some sort of tachyon hypermatter reactor", it's a lie.
It's a lie because the talk of tachyonic matter has only been recently added, and I know it wasn't part of the arguments of the people I argued against at SBC and here before you came.
If anything, tachyonic matter is just an addition to their former stance, used to legitimate the inordinate amounts of energy they claim the DS can generate.
So that's already one part you got wrong, or deceptively tried to reform.

The other fact is that you don't really understand what DET has always been about. It's been about the rather simple application of energy, under known principles, but at a massive scale. In other words, nothing more elaborate than a big beam of particles smashing into a planet, regardless of how the beam is produced and maintained over such a long range.
That DET is obviously not workable. The secondary explosion, which you completely fend off with the back of your hand, repels any prediction made by any DET theory of that nature.
It's no wonders that the debate has been going in circles since you've got the basics all wrong.

I'm also not making an insane leap of logic because I have never agreed upon the premise that the DS has an "exotic reactor used to generate e32 joules" to begin with.

As for "voodoo land", that's pretty much the definition of anything that helps circumventing the problems of science fiction that borders fantasy. In this case, it has become hyperspace, just like it's subspace to others, the Grid and so on.

And there, we see that you have completely failed to address any request I made.
No valid explanation of the delayed explosion. No surprise here, you think a direct energy transfer can somehow result into such a phenomenon, which makes it obvious that debating this with you is mostly an exercise in futility.
No explanation of what happened to Despayre. No surprise either, you've been postponing this long awaited explanation for pages and pages, since the first day someone here talked about Despayre in a reply to one of your claims regarding the Death Star.
And no explanation as to what your fusion is supposed to be, since you excluded nuclear fusion.

On the flipside, explain how YOUR theory explains it. Oh, no, it can't. So this is not a point in your favor. We know from both thermodynamics and various EU sources that the DS's reactor is what powers the superlaser, nothing else, and the superlaser is what blows up the planet, nothing else. Whether this energy is "normal", funky or some sort of crazy pixy dust is irrelevant.

Absolutely not. It's only irrelevant to people who want to skip crucial elements. Energy comes from somewhere. It's the somewhere that's debated, and how it's actually brought into the planet.

As I already said, I don't need to explain such things, and I already cited RSA's page as to why.
My own fanwork was essentially to point out the massive flaws in the DET theory for quite some years. And that, frankly, wasn't really hard.

Also, it's getting tiring that you use the term thermodynamics while you have obviously no idea what it means, and don't really know when to use it effectively. It's essentially a transparent trick, an appeal to principles you unfortunately don't really get.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Mr. O, you are still dodging my question. Explain how YOUR theory explains the effects any better than mine.

PS, DET is a common phenomena in physics, and is the default assumption when you see a giant laser beam blowing a planet to rubble.

[Praeothmin]

Mr. O, you are still dodging my question. Explain how YOUR theory explains the effects any better than mine.

PS, DET is a common phenomena in physics, and is the default assumption when you see a giant laser beam blowing a planet to rubble.

Man, you fail at science on so many levels...
And Oragahn just told you how his theory is better than yours:
It does not ignore anything in the movies, like Alderaan's secondary explosion, in the novels and the DS Database (fusion), or the ICS...
Yours does...
And science rules that you should not ignore evidence for your theory to be valid...

[Mr. Oragahn]

Mr. O, you are still dodging my question. Explain how YOUR theory explains the effects any better than mine.

PS, DET is a common phenomena in physics, and is the default assumption when you see a giant laser beam blowing a planet to rubble.

Man, you fail at science on so many levels...
And Oragahn just told you how his theory is better than yours:
It does not ignore anything in the movies, like Alderaan's secondary explosion, in the novels and the DS Database (fusion), or the ICS...
Yours does...
And science rules that you should not ignore evidence for your theory to be valid...

Why do you bother?
I can't tell if he's doing it on purpose or if it's natural, but I doubt, beyond a certain point, that someone could be so impaired as to fail so many repeated times in front of such simple principles.
In that post above, besides once again refusing to address core points, he has just rebooted the whole thread by repeating the "gween supalazor hits planet goz boom" tripe from Wong.

Seriously, guys.

So I officially put him on my non-existent Ignore List. There doesn't seem to be a rule against that, so that's fine.

[Praeothmin]

There isn't, you may ignore him at your leisure...

I do, asides from posting once in a while requesting for never-given evidence to back up his ludicrous claims... :)

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Man, you fail at science on so many levels...
And Oragahn just told you how his theory is better than yours:
It does not ignore anything in the movies, like Alderaan's secondary explosion, in the novels and the DS Database (fusion), or the ICS...
Yours does...
And science rules that you should not ignore evidence for your theory to be valid...

Oh, Mr. O's theory doesn't ignore it?

In that case, show me where in his theory he addresses these secondary explosions, halo rings, etc and where he rationalizes them into his theory. You stated that his theory doesn't ignore it, so surely you can support it, can you?

Oh, and Praeothmin, I just read some of your posts in SDN. I had to say, that was a good laugh.

[Admiral Breetai]

now your openly mocking Moderators? my , my hasn't JMS embolden you my young and vastly inexperienced friend

[Mike DiCenso]

Oh, and Praeothmin, I just read some of your posts in SDN. I had to say, that was a good laugh.

This is a clear cut insult. A warning is issued to StarWarsStarTrek.
-Mike

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Oh, and Praeothmin, I just read some of your posts in SDN. I had to say, that was a good laugh.

This is a clear cut insult. A warning is issued to StarWarsStarTrek.
-Mike

A bit harsh considering that i am sure i saw prom on this very site say just poor his arguments were when he first started VS debating, the fact he was big enough to actually admit it means he has come a lot further than Wong or anybody on SDN as they are still preaching their flawed bullshit even though it has been destroyed over and over again.

To Prom,

No disrespect intended as you are very good now but if i am wrong and am confusing you with some one else i apologies.

[Admiral Breetai]

I would think it's still an insult I mean it's amazing boss man admitted he made poor arguments in the beginning but knowingly using them the same way SDN uses them to mock him...is definite insulting

I mean as a rookie I made some shitty arguments too but I'm pretty sure even admitting that if some one tried to use them to mock me now or discredit me it'd be a low blow and a bit fallacious yes?

JMS and Mike and hell all of us have made rookie mistakes but using them to mocks hardly anything but insulting

[Praeothmin]

Actually, my arguments were good, if not as complete as I now make them...

Mike, I would actually ask that you rescind the last warning to SWST, as I do not feel insulted at all...
Coming from SWST, this:

Oh, and Praeothmin, I just read some of your posts in SDN. I had to say, that was a good laugh.

Is just funny...
What I did say was, I was arrogant, and went in thinking I could easily make them see the error of their ways...
Oh, how wrong I was...
Anyways, when one of their chief debaters is called Mr. Bean, and his arguments clearly show he had no understanding of scale and proportions (I had scaled down the DS "cannons" to an ISD's and then Han's Blaster to show them how scaling down firepower directly was so dumb), or that he has no understanding of the difference between architects and material engineers, I realized that it was not worth it to argue against them...

By the way, SWST, anytime you want to start a thread here to "school me", anytime you wish to debunk my arguments I made back then, bring it...

Edit: read all my glorious debating skills here... :)

Edit-Edit: HA! I was indeed dumb, as I believed that an ISD could kick a GCS's ass...
I'm happy I became wiser... :)

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Actually, my arguments were good, if not as complete as I now make them...

I knew it was summat like that you were big enough to have mentioned before on here sorry for the generalization dude.

[Praeothmin]

Actually, my arguments were good, if not as complete as I now make them...

I knew it was summat like that you were big enough to have mentioned before on here sorry for the generalization dude.

????
No insult was perceived...
Honestly, I have to credit Mike Wong's SDN for bringing me in the debate, and also forcing me to delve deeper in understanding of ST and SW in order to better debate...
And for making me a Warsie...
For a while...
Like the time it took me to delve deeper and truly understand ST and SW... :)

[Admiral Breetai]

you are an arrogant man preao! you come in here declaring even as a noob your arguments was flawless!

that's it from now on "I started out as a national level debater" haha