Yes. Since I believe the death star consumed resources greater than zero. Therefore resources allocated to the DS project, whatever they were, could not be used for the ISDs or other standard type military ships. I freely admit the Empire could have gotten more ISDs if it hadn't pursued the Death Star, and have advocated that policy, just not the number you want so there is no conflict.SWST wrote:You said that the "DS project [was] sucking down resources", and this this prevented the imperial starfleet from being as massive as it could have been
Yes the metal skeleton built some time between the end of AOTC and the end of ROTS. Still several years away from being completed to a useful state by all known evidence so you can't argue time needed to build a death star and does nothing to argue against the notion Death Stars are unique constructions in terms of scale not applicable to smaller vessels. So there is no point to bringing it up.No, look at the giant object in space at the end of RotS, which you argue is the skeletal frame of the first Death Star.
I provided quotes and times a mere post previously. You were talking about millions of ISDs from the deathstar in a post uploaded roughly thirty minutes before my first post concerning the 20 sector group quote was mentioned. Therefore you claimed timeline is once more a fabricated lie. Second I have repeatedly asked for evidence where I claimed the death stars strained the economy in that thread so far you have provided nothing of substance to support your assertion.No. There were two seperate arguments I made regarding the Death Star:
1. That the Galactic Alliance could mass produce Death Stars to swarm the Federation.
2. That the construction of the Death Star is an industrial feat far surpassing anything the Federation has ever done.
First, I make claim 1. You counter that the Death Star took years to build and heavily strained the imperial economy. Then, I make claim 2, and you selectively change your stance to "the Death Star wasn't a big strain", to argue that it is magically easy to build.
No. The statement is quite straightfoward. They poured the resources to form perhaps a score of sector groups. There is no getting around that I will not reboot the debate with you yet again. I have evidence from G to T to C on why the death stars do not break down into smaller ISDs. You have no evidence until that changes we have nothing more to discuss.Yes, it does. "worth" is completely relative; but the resources required are fixed
You have not provided one canonical piece of evidence on why my canon statement is wrong. You have not been able to explain the utter lack of these uber fleets we should be tripping over in star wars. To be blunt your base assumption is flawed.Nope. I explained to you the science behind it; you never even bothered to address it specifically, so I will repeat:
As far as the Imperial army is concerned yes it does. You have the Imperial army, Stormtroopers and Compforce which may or may not be included under the Imperial Army.Sector "army" does not preclude the existence of other ground forces.
Explaining it isn't my job. I follow the evidence. All evidence points to death stars being unique outliers in terms of industry therefore it is an outlier.Ok then, bring subcommander tyler back in, and have him give an explanation as to how the moon sized battle station was constructed with the resources allotted to 100 frigates. After all, it "is in line with the rest of the universe"; it certainly must be remotely comprehensible to rationalize, right?
Except that it doesn't. Otherwise the ISB wouldn't talk about only a score of sector groups, wouldn't be talking of tens of thousands of ISDs for the entire Imperial navy, ROTJ would have seen three hundred Star Destroyers not a mere thirty and the Republic could afford to send Skywalker out with more than three Venators to take back Ryloth."Broken down"? No. The Death Star proves that the Empire can quickly gather the metal, fuel and manpower needed to build billions of ISDs; this is fact.
Temper SWST. I believe cursing is a violation of the rules. And I was merely showing you the "merits" of the example you are dealing with.I DON'T GIVE A FUCK WHAT YOUR OPINION IS!
That would be an incorrect statment SWST. I have in fact in addition to stating the idiocy required on Dooku's part, on the shaky manner of assuming something happens only when we don't see it have offered up two examples to this one. Or in other words I have dealt with this example quite fairly and even handed and it fails to superior evidence.You haven't offered any counter-evidence to refute my statement; you simply make vague "it doesn't make sense to me!" arguments based on an imaginary camera.
That would be a possibility save for the examples of when we can calculate their velocity when we can see them. Times they have every reason to go as quickly as they can.Well then, there are factors involved with Dooku's acceleration feat that we can't comprehend. But it's still canon that he could move that fast. Bingo.
No, not probably. It is an outlier. You presented one which contridicts it, the MF scene approaching the death star, so you can't claim you are ignorant of the example and the X-wings in the trench of the death star. Both establish lower accelerations and trump your singular one.Really, I don't see this "evidence" you claim exists, other than "well, it's probably an outlier..."
And no point for "misunderstanding" that my statment of supporting evidence wasn't to acceleration figures I have mentioned close to three times at this point but to examples of express absurdity, but no less valid than your theory, I made to made a point.
Oh, on the death star? Why, that is simple; they don't want to run into anything.
Full throttle. So the X-wings were going at full acceleration, or possibly speed knowing Lucas, and are not effortlessly spinning around the circumfrence of the death star.ANH script wrote:LUKE
(over speaker)
Biggs, Wedge, let's close it up.
We're going in. We're going in full
throttle.
INT. WEDGE'S COCKPIT
The horizon twists as Wedge begins to pull out.
WEDGE
Right with you, boss.
EXT. SPACE AROUND THE DEATH STAR
The two X-wings peel off against a background of stars and
dive toward the Death Star.
First I believe it was something closer to eight torpedoes in two seconds rather then one. Second during the 3-4 seconds eight torpedoes at least are fired and even the "lull" involves the ship continuing to fire phaser strikes fair enough calcluations to run rough figures. Far from complete opposite figure you've now started to claim but hey I can man up to when my zeal slightly clouds my judgment. In that spirit I do apologize through it does not alter my opinon on who the victor would be. As I expect yours to remain unchanged which I'm satisifed for it to remain so, having no urge to continue debating such with the likes of you.Feel free to explain why, in each scene in which you cite as evidence of 8-torpedos-per-second rapid fire,
So you admit I did calculations therefore your earlier comment I merely disagreed because I didn't do any was false. You agree. As to your calculations themselves I have neither said anything for or against them, as I already stated I have little desire to debate the issue with you furtherNo, I took your own calculations
Only in the sense that if you can't hit the ship at 1 kilometer you likely can't hit the ship at a hundred. But accuracy does not equate to the meaning of range and we were discussing accuracy solely in the matter.In space, it pretty much is.
There is no evidence that a galaxy class would be inaccurate at 300K kilometers, and evidence has been presented of them bullseyeing targets in the tens or hundreds of thousands of kilometers by me, Preao and just about everyone else.Sure; galaxy classes may be inaccurate at hitting targets from 300K kilometers away
They have a predisposition to photogenic ranges but nothing suggests they couldn't shoot farther if they so desired.but that doesn't explain why they must move within five kilometers, in many occasions, to fire. The implication here is that they are inaccurate, even against a borg cube, at even a hundred kilometers, or else they would be firing at those ranges instead.
The ROTS novelization is overruled by the G-canon movie of ROTS which shows the ships are not at hundreds of kilometers, the ion cannon is not a star destroyer, I have presented Imperial accuracy against an easy target and they missed the hell out of it. By any measure the Imperials have substandard accuracy in relation to Starfleet.Yet we know from the G canon RotS novelization that effective combat range between ships is at least "hundreds" of kilometers; and in ESB, an ion cannon hits a star destroyer from 6000 kilometers distant.
Holding completely steady in relation to the ISD but if you wish to claim an ISD can't fire slightly off axis be my guest.All of this is countered by the fact that the Tantive IV was over one kilometer away from the ISD, and slightly below it.
And they are smaller, evasive and are moving in relation to the ship in question.Whereas in comparison, these smaller fighters were almost literally within spitting distance of the ships firing on them;
As well your free to provide scaling to determin how close those fighters were.
