Base Delta Zero

[StarWarsStarTrek]

please, don't feign knowledge. The dispute is over the atmosphere drifting away (dispute, and I don't appreciate your statement of your side as fact). Nobody who has actually looked at the quote in question thinks that "Dankayo's evenly cratered surface" refers to just the base.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

please, don't feign knowledge. The dispute is over the atmosphere drifting away (dispute, and I don't appreciate your statement of your side as fact). Nobody who has actually looked at the quote in question thinks that "Dankayo's evenly cratered surface" refers to just the base.

You mean if they deliberately ignore the entire story describing the destruction and that the base was explicitly referred to as "Dankayo" and not as "Dankayo base" or other terms?.

Did you forget those?, did you forget the one where stromtroopers are wandering about and find a undamaged door they need to breach that is on the surface?.

here we go again:

West End Games, Scavenger Hunt, p.3 wrote:


Recent Events

Even before the last of its atmosphere drifted away, before the dense clouds of atomized topsoil could begin to settle, Imperial transports Elusive and Timely, as well as a complement of TIE fighters, moved in to perform "mop-up" operations and a thorough search of Dankayo's now evenly-cratered surface. What they found surprised them. The Rebel Alliance, having some warning of the impending raid, ordered the base evacuated. Not a single being, living or dead, was discovered on the planet.

mop up operations?...

West End Games, Scavenger Hunt, p.3 wrote:


The Imperial commander in charge sighed resignedly and began making plans to blame the debacle on an inferior officer. He was, however, cautious enough to order a complete stripping of the planetary installation, in the slim hope that a clue would be discovered as to the location of the hole into which the fleeing Rebels had scampered.
The majority of the tast force soon departed, leaving Elusive to pick up the pieces. A wealth of datapacks were recovered, but Elusive's commander reasoned that they were probably worthless considering the Rebels had left them behind. Still, he would transport them to the Imperial Intelligence center on Coronar just in case.

West End Games, Scavenger Hunt, p.3 wrote:


Contrary to the commander's beliefs, however, the datapacks are not worthless. Dankayo's automatic destruct sequence, designed to destroy every last scrap of data contained in the base's memory banks in case of an attack, had failed. The seemingly useless datapacks actually contain complete, detailed information about every Rebel intelligence operation under Dankayo's control. Now that information is enroute to the Imperial Intelligence center on Coronar. Once decoded and analyzed, the Empire will use the data to hunt down and destroy the unsuspecting agents, safehouses, and contacts that help the Alliance.

lots of undamaged stuff.

West End Games, Scavenger Hunt, p.4 wrote:


Read Aloud

The Empire has attacked and destroyed the Rebel base on Dankayo. Although all personnel were evacuated in time, data detailing Alliance activities in the neighboring sectors was left behind. The ruins of the base - including the important data - were picked up by the Imperial cargo ship Elusive for transport to an ISD research facility.

Ruins left behind.

West End Games, Scavenger Hunt, p.20 wrote:
PLAYER HANDOUT:
The Final Log of Agent ZNT-8

Transmitted from Dankayo to Alliance Com Buoy 965C shortly after the Imperial attack.


Entry 2
The bombardment has ceased. I have crawled up the accessway to the surface - or what is left of it. If nothing else, the Empire is generous with its overkill. I expected much of what I have observed through my macrobinoculars: Imperial stormtroopers sifting through the rubble of our defensive installations, others loading salvaged equipment into barges for transport, probably to Imperial Intelligence for analysis. What I did not expect was to see them blasting open the doors to an intact chamber in the main base!
It appears that the central base computer has not yet completed its self-destruct sequence. I will attempt to get closer and determine whether this is the case.

Loading salvaged equipment, blasting open a undamaged door on the surface to a intact chamber.

West End Games, Scavenger Hunt, p.20 wrote:
PLAYER HANDOUT:
The Final Log of Agent ZNT-8

Transmitted from Dankayo to Alliance Com Buoy 965C shortly after the Imperial attack.

Entry 3
My worst fears are realized. The first Imperial barrage knocked out the power supply to the central base computer banks, and the backup power supply wasn't equal to the task of detonating all of the programmed charges. I estimate it shorted before it could destroy more than 20 percent of the computer center, certainly not enough to ensure that crucial data is kept from Imperial hands. I suppose under the cimcumstances you'd better not send my pickup boat. I've a thermal detonator or two, and a fair amount of detonite. I'm going to try to go in there and finish the job the automatics started. I'll send this off first, so you'll know if you don't hear from me again that I didn't make it. Remember, it's the Imperial transport Elusive that'll have the data if I can't stop them.

End of transmission.

2 Thermal detonators and detonite > 3 star destroyer bombardment...lol

[mojo]

ORAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHN!

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Your claim was not that you disputed that the "evenly cratered surface" quote refered to anything but the planet, but rather that various people have stated it to be "over and over again", which I invite you to produce a single instance of. Indeed, various people that have debated me, such as Mr. O, have used the planet interpretation as an argument against me, rather than the opposite.

[Praeothmin]

Wait, I don't get it...

Are you finaly conceding that Dankayo wasn't slagged and that the destruction wasn't as big as you said it was, or are you once again shifting the subject so you won't have to admit you're wrong?

It's hard to tell... :)

[StarWarsStarTrek]

...but despite your complete factacious claim that this argument has been presented "over and over again" (and the equally factacious logic that this constitutes it as fact), let me address this.

You mean if they deliberately ignore the entire story describing the destruction and that the base was explicitly referred to as "Dankayo" and not as "Dankayo base" or other terms?.

Not unless if you twist the author's prose to ridiculous degrees of stupidity. I suppose that you feel that the clouds of atomized topsoil are also referring to the base instead of the planet, right? So much for being a "tiny" base.

Did you forget those?, did you forget the one where stromtroopers are wandering about and find a undamaged door they need to breach that is on the surface?.

So what? Does this contradict the fact that the planet's topsoil was atomized, or that its atmosphere was blown away? If the atmosphere was self contained within the base, explain why the "last of the atmosphere" drifted away after the base (according to you) was cratered, slagged and its topsoil atomized, when such an event would, based on your interpretation of events, be the very first thing to happen the instant the base's containment system were breached?

here we go again:

West End Games, Scavenger Hunt, p.3 wrote:


Recent Events

Even before the last of its atmosphere drifted away, before the dense clouds of atomized topsoil could begin to settle, Imperial transports Elusive and Timely, as well as a complement of TIE fighters, moved in to perform "mop-up" operations and a thorough search of Dankayo's now evenly-cratered surface. What they found surprised them. The Rebel Alliance, having some warning of the impending raid, ordered the base evacuated. Not a single being, living or dead, was discovered on the planet.

mop up operations?...

West End Games, Scavenger Hunt, p.3 wrote:


The Imperial commander in charge sighed resignedly and began making plans to blame the debacle on an inferior officer. He was, however, cautious enough to order a complete stripping of the planetary installation, in the slim hope that a clue would be discovered as to the location of the hole into which the fleeing Rebels had scampered.
The majority of the tast force soon departed, leaving Elusive to pick up the pieces. A wealth of datapacks were recovered, but Elusive's commander reasoned that they were probably worthless considering the Rebels had left them behind. Still, he would transport them to the Imperial Intelligence center on Coronar just in case.

West End Games, Scavenger Hunt, p.3 wrote:


Contrary to the commander's beliefs, however, the datapacks are not worthless. Dankayo's automatic destruct sequence, designed to destroy every last scrap of data contained in the base's memory banks in case of an attack, had failed. The seemingly useless datapacks actually contain complete, detailed information about every Rebel intelligence operation under Dankayo's control. Now that information is enroute to the Imperial Intelligence center on Coronar. Once decoded and analyzed, the Empire will use the data to hunt down and destroy the unsuspecting agents, safehouses, and contacts that help the Alliance.

lots of undamaged stuff.

All this means is that the base was well built and the datapads well protected. Especially since another quote mentions a computer being left intact after being pulled from slag. You are attempting to use the survival of equipment made of debatable materials science to define the level of destruction rather than the known to quantify the unknown.

West End Games, Scavenger Hunt, p.4 wrote:


Read Aloud

The Empire has attacked and destroyed the Rebel base on Dankayo. Although all personnel were evacuated in time, data detailing Alliance activities in the neighboring sectors was left behind. The ruins of the base - including the important data - were picked up by the Imperial cargo ship Elusive for transport to an ISD research facility.

Ruins left behind.

So the imperials wanted to capture Rebel data, and therefore destroyed the base and sent troops to pick up surviving data. And this demonstrates the inferiority of imperial firepower because obviously what they would have done had they really had ICS yields would be to completely vaporize the base so that they cannot scavenge any data from said base. How intelligent.

West End Games, Scavenger Hunt, p.20 wrote:
PLAYER HANDOUT:
The Final Log of Agent ZNT-8

Transmitted from Dankayo to Alliance Com Buoy 965C shortly after the Imperial attack.


Entry 2
The bombardment has ceased. I have crawled up the accessway to the surface - or what is left of it. If nothing else, the Empire is generous with its overkill. I expected much of what I have observed through my macrobinoculars: Imperial stormtroopers sifting through the rubble of our defensive installations, others loading salvaged equipment into barges for transport, probably to Imperial Intelligence for analysis. What I did not expect was to see them blasting open the doors to an intact chamber in the main base!
It appears that the central base computer has not yet completed its self-destruct sequence. I will attempt to get closer and determine whether this is the case.

Loading salvaged equipment, blasting open a undamaged door on the surface to a intact chamber.

[/quote]

You mean the chambers leading to obviously important information that would therefore likely be blast doors? Blast doors that resisted Qui Gon and Obi Wan in TPM? And in Fatal Alliance, when a 5000+ antiquitated blast door could "easily withstand a small nuclear blast" (yet was no match for a padawan's lightsaber, implying inferiority to the TPM blast doors that quite visibly strained a Jedi Master), or the one in Shadows of Mindor that could withstand a "good sized fusion bomb"?

West End Games, Scavenger Hunt, p.20 wrote:
PLAYER HANDOUT:
The Final Log of Agent ZNT-8

Transmitted from Dankayo to Alliance Com Buoy 965C shortly after the Imperial attack.

Entry 3
My worst fears are realized. The first Imperial barrage knocked out the power supply to the central base computer banks, and the backup power supply wasn't equal to the task of detonating all of the programmed charges. I estimate it shorted before it could destroy more than 20 percent of the computer center, certainly not enough to ensure that crucial data is kept from Imperial hands. I suppose under the cimcumstances you'd better not send my pickup boat. I've a thermal detonator or two, and a fair amount of detonite. I'm going to try to go in there and finish the job the automatics started. I'll send this off first, so you'll know if you don't hear from me again that I didn't make it. Remember, it's the Imperial transport Elusive that'll have the data if I can't stop them.

End of transmission.

2 Thermal detonators and detonite > 3 star destroyer bombardment...lol

Your logic hurts. Apparently, point blank detonation from thermal detonators (some ofwhose blast radius can extend to 100 meters) destroying the remnants of a bombardment from a faction intending to salvage equipment from their target somehow means anything.

[Praeothmin]

Your logic hurts.

Not as much as your lack of it...

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Not unless if you twist the author's prose to ridiculous degrees of stupidity. I suppose that you feel that the clouds of atomized topsoil are also referring to the base instead of the planet, right? So much for being a "tiny" base.

No need for twisting just reading.

The base would obviously have topsoil around it and during the bombardment some got atomized with the blasts forming it into clouds.

So what? Does this contradict the fact that the planet's topsoil was atomized, or that its atmosphere was blown away?

Yes.

Firstly you typically try wanking things by assuming the comment about the topsoil was about a entire planets worth being atomized rather than in a localized area around the base.

Secondly atmosphere escaping the base would drift away while "drift" is not a term used to describe it being blasted away at escape velocity.

Third is the fact that to blast away a planets atmosphere in a short time would require uniform explosions across the entire surface and that is beyond the ability of 3 star destroyers simply by the number of weapons they have and the coverage of the planets surface let alone firepower.

And fourthly the stormtroopers would not be walking they would be swimming in molten rock and their would certainly not be merely damage installations and intact doors on the surface.

If the atmosphere was self contained within the base, explain why the "last of the atmosphere" drifted away after the base (according to you) was cratered, slagged and its topsoil atomized, when such an event would, based on your interpretation of events, be the very first thing to happen the instant the base's containment system were breached?

Some of the base was clearly wrecked but some was just damaged and some was even intact so the atmosphere in question obviously escaped from the destroyed and damaged parts.

You mean the chambers leading to obviously important information that would therefore likely be blast doors? Blast doors that resisted Qui Gon and Obi Wan in TPM? And in Fatal Alliance, when a 5000+ antiquitated blast door could "easily withstand a small nuclear blast" (yet was no match for a padawan's lightsaber, implying inferiority to the TPM blast doors that quite visibly strained a Jedi Master), or the one in Shadows of Mindor that could withstand a "good sized fusion bomb"?

So you are conceding that a simple blast door (if that is what it was as you have far from proven that) is capable of repulsing a extended max power bombardment from 3 star destroyers....:D.

And you reference a INTERNAL door on a ship that i assume would get owned by a ISD shields, Armour and all.

Oh and that one could withstand a fusion bomb (good sized what ever that is).

Ok so the star destroyers firepower sucks even more than i thought.

Your logic hurts. Apparently, point blank detonation from thermal detonators (some ofwhose blast radius can extend to 100 meters) destroying the remnants of a bombardment from a faction intending to salvage equipment from their target somehow means anything.

Of course honest logic hurts you, after all you are a typical rabid wongite spouting doctrine in the face of such honest logic.

Oh and your reading skills fail as he clearly says it was the ruminants from failed automatic self destructs, he also mentioned bombardment only managed to knock out the power and that is why the self destruct failed LOLOL:

Entry 3
My worst fears are realized. The first Imperial barrage knocked out the power supply to the central base computer banks, and the backup power supply wasn't equal to the task of detonating all of the programmed charges. I estimate it shorted before it could destroy more than 20 percent of the computer center, certainly not enough to ensure that crucial data is kept from Imperial hands. I suppose under the cimcumstances you'd better not send my pickup boat. I've a thermal detonator or two, and a fair amount of detonite. I'm going to try to go in there and finish the job the automatics started. I'll send this off first, so you'll know if you don't hear from me again that I didn't make it. Remember, it's the Imperial transport Elusive that'll have the data if I can't stop them.

[Mr. Oragahn]

ORAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHN!

Oh? Someone still cares?
There is nothing in what SWST says that I haven't already debunked, squished, spat on and graciously anally raped with a twelve meters wide bore.
As for the rest, any decent mass of conceptually apt and adequately organized homo sapiens sapiens-grade cells boasting a modicum of intelligence wouldn't even raise the points he dares raising.
Kor just entertains him.
He's literally repeating ALL the points I made, especially the ones about the base being called Dankayo. It's not taking much brain matter to realize that all that is said in the book can be understood very differently once you consider that Dankayo = base where it counts. It's just not that. One could literally ignore the fact that the base is called Dankayo and still find plenty of ways to completely debunk SWST's claims. It doesn't take any more intelligence to see that SWST's retarded claim of absolute lava production has been corrected about everywhere in this place.
And his post from 19th of January is just so full of strawmen. Why give a shit?
Besides, I totally appreciate the fact that he was allowed to return, especially so soon. Oh, see what he does right after that?
You can't even refrain from playing right into his game. Who said ignore him, again?
As I said, as long as you guys think that SWST is more important than proper debate, and therefore sending all sorts of wrong signals, I'm not going to stay here.
My vision of how this place should be managed is just not compatible with JMS', but since it's his board and he assumes all the work and charges for it, I can't do anything else but whine and make suggestions.

[mojo]

do you know that there are people here who would like to see you replace praeothmin as mod? is there no possibility that you'd accept that in the spirit of finding a middle point? does it absolutely have to be jms' way OR your way? you could help dicenso bust his (SWST) ass out of here and then start the long haul toward making this place fun again.

of course, it's not fair to expect you to take up that kind of responsibility.



-edited because i neglected to name swst in the 'bust his ass out of here' segment the first time, which would have probably been catastrophic for me as i seemed to be proposing that oragahn and dicenso 'bust JMS' ass out of here'. that's hilarious in retrospect, but GOOD LORD.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

ORAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHN!

Oh? Someone still cares?
There is nothing in what SWST says that I haven't already debunked, squished, spat on and graciously anally raped with a twelve meters wide bore.
As for the rest, any decent mass of conceptually apt and adequately organized homo sapiens sapiens-grade cells boasting a modicum of intelligence wouldn't even raise the points he dares raising.
Kor just entertains him.
He's literally repeating ALL the points I made, especially the ones about the base being called Dankayo. It's not taking much brain matter to realize that all that is said in the book can be understood very differently once you consider that Dankayo = base where it counts. It's just not that. One could literally ignore the fact that the base is called Dankayo and still find plenty of ways to completely debunk SWST's claims. It doesn't take any more intelligence to see that SWST's retarded claim of absolute lava production has been corrected about everywhere in this place.
And his post from 19th of January is just so full of strawmen. Why give a shit?
Besides, I totally appreciate the fact that he was allowed to return, especially so soon. Oh, see what he does right after that?
You can't even refrain from playing right into his game. Who said ignore him, again?
As I said, as long as you guys think that SWST is more important than proper debate, and therefore sending all sorts of wrong signals, I'm not going to stay here.
My vision of how this place should be managed is just not compatible with JMS', but since it's his board and he assumes all the work and charges for it, I can't do anything else but whine and make suggestions.

Obvious fact 1: You did not read my post.

Obvious fact 2: You lied, because jack shit in said post had been "debunked" by you.

Obvious fact 3: You lied some more, given that I did not even talk about Dankayo in said post for more than one or two segments of a sentence.

Obvious fact 4: You lied even more, because you stated in your previous post that the Base Delta Zero targets anything that isn't natural, "obviously", when a canonical source explicitly mentions the destruction of "all natural resources"

Obvious fact 5: Your knowledge of even the most basic scientific concepts is clearly botched, as you believe that seismic shocks emitting from kiloton detonations can collapse a reinforced bunker kilometers below the surface.

Obvious fact 6: You're an even bigger liar, from before. In another thread, I mentioned the stupidity of rubber being as strong as durasteel, and you denied its stupidity. I ridiculed your denial, and your response was to deny ever having denied such ridiculousness. Yet when I then showed you evidence of your backtracking, you cut my response out of your rebuttal.

Obvious fact 7: Your Base Delta Zero alternate version is a ridiculous collection of stupidities.

a) That kiloton detonations at accepted rates of fire for several hours can destroy "all life, natural resources", even though such a barrage would be less energetic than predicted nuclear exchanges during the Cold War, which no credible source ever expected to destroy all human life, let alone eradicate all natural resources across the entire planet.

b) that shockwaves from kiloton weaponry can collapse reinforced bases kilometers below the surface. Fortunately for Japan, and fortunately for anyone within a hundred kilometers of the tsar bomb's test detonation, you overestimate [an understatement] the effects of said shockwaves. Did you know that the Constitution is hidden behind enough metal to supposedly withstand a nuclear detonation? Quick! You better phone the president right now, because they're clearly wrong. Indeed, all nuclear shelters are in for some bad trouble, because we all know that a kiloton weaponry can collapse kilometers deep space age shelters, so what would a megaton ICBM do to a shelter a few hundred meters below the ground?

c) that this overall level of destruction would somehow fit a figurative definition of "molten slag" or even have enough punch and speed to affect the entire planet.

Obvious fact 8: Or more like a rhetorical question. How the fuck am I supposed to believe your claims that you are really a pro Wars member arguing against my evil wanking of Wars (read: not refusing to accept a canon cross section) when you quantify Wars weaponry to be only in the kilotons (less than Darkstar, who is the antithesis of pro Wars) and call their weapons "piss weak".





@P: Who is the troll; the one that makes several paragraph long arguments with supporting evidence and analysis, no matter how bad it may or may not be, or the one that responds to this all with the above [a one liner] and fails to back his claims up or contribute anything at all to the discussion? Feel free to explain how my "logic hurts". Oh, no, wait, you can't, because you're more than eager to respond to me when you otherwise could.

And were you not the same P who argued that both Wars and Trek firepower are about equal in the double digit kilotons and that their on screen battle ranges were equal and that Wars industry and FTL were superior ("but not by as much as I would like to think"), thus giving the advantage firmly to Wars (especially given that Wars ships have a higher shield:turbolaser strength compared to Trek, whose torpedos are proportionally able to take out shields with less hits)? An advantage that you actually support, saying that Wars has the edge in the grander war (and, inadvertantly, tactically as well)? Yet I have never seen you argue for Wars or defend it, even in the most ridiculous of threads. Trust me; in a "fully completed Death Star 2 vs Enterprise E" debate, you would be fighting tooth and nail against my "trolling" proposition that the planet busting moon would defeat the tiny exploration ship.

[Praeothmin]

Who is the troll;

You are... :)

And were you not the same P who argued that both Wars and Trek firepower are about equal in the double digit kilotons and that their on screen battle ranges were equal and that Wars industry and FTL were superior ("but not by as much as I would like to think"), thus giving the advantage firmly to Wars (especially given that Wars ships have a higher shield:turbolaser strength compared to Trek, whose torpedos are proportionally able to take out shields with less hits)? An advantage that you actually support, saying that Wars has the edge in the grander war (and, inadvertantly, tactically as well)? Yet I have never seen you argue for Wars or defend it, even in the most ridiculous of threads. .

Then you have not read all the threads I was involved with...
Hell, you couldn't, so it's ok, because had you, you would have seen me defend SW against absurd Trekkie claims many times over, in fact I was the most ardent defender of SW against another Troll,. KirkSkyWalker, and his wankfest of Trekkiness...

Trust me; in a "fully completed Death Star 2 vs Enterprise E" debate, you would be fighting tooth and nail against my "trolling" proposition that the planet busting moon would defeat the tiny exploration ship

I have no reason to trust you, and I would most certainly not root for the exploration ship to be able to resist even a 1% powered DS shot...
I would more likely not believe your bullshit about SW's great aim and that the DS would be able to actually hit the ship while it was maneuvering...
If your scenario was the unaware E-E vs a fully powered DS, with the E-E sitting in front od its dish, however... Boom goes the E-E...

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Apologies for double post.

No need for twisting just reading.

The base would obviously have topsoil around it and during the bombardment some got atomized with the blasts forming it into clouds.

Wrong. Read the quote again.


before the dense clouds of atomized topsoil could begin to settle

additionally:

Imperial transports Elusive and Timely, as well as a complement of TIE fighters

Given the enormous size of imperial transports (see: acclamator troop transport), it hardly makes sense for two of these (big enough to be named, which, say, LAAT's are not) to cover a "tiny base".

Yes.

Firstly you typically try wanking things by assuming the comment about the topsoil was about a entire planets worth being atomized rather than in a localized area around the base.

Sure I do. I don't see how the topsoil around the base could form "dense clouds" that are still settling when transport ships have enough time to unload troops.

Secondly atmosphere escaping the base would drift away while "drift" is not a term used to describe it being blasted away at escape velocity.

Semantics. It's not as damning as the greater evil, as explained below.

Third is the fact that to blast away a planets atmosphere in a short time would require uniform explosions across the entire surface and that is beyond the ability of 3 star destroyers simply by the number of weapons they have and the coverage of the planets surface let alone firepower.

Wrong, since the same thing Han Solo expects a single cloaked star destroyer to accomplish, very energetic weaponry (teratons) could do it anyway, ISD's have tie bombers, and ISD's can move very darn fast (via Battle of Endor, circumnavigate planets in seconds).

And fourthly the stormtroopers would not be walking they would be swimming in molten rock and their would certainly not be merely damage installations and intact doors on the surface.

Latter has already been addressed, former assumes that the attack slagged the planet's surface, rather than airbust to drain away the atmosphere. Additionally, magma troops do exist.

Some of the base was clearly wrecked but some was just damaged and some was even intact so the atmosphere in question obviously escaped from the destroyed and damaged parts.

Exactly. A tiny base's atmosphere dispersing into an entire planet (or even moon) would happen extremely fast. Yet the last of it drifted away before the base was already effectively ruined and transport ships mobilized to deploy troops.

My theory: the atmosphere was blasted away.
Your theory: the base's atmosphere drifted away, and the imperials can destroy the base, mobilize transports and send troops to the surface literally within seconds.

So you are conceding that a simple blast door (if that is what it was as you have far from proven that) is capable of repulsing a extended max power bombardment from 3 star destroyers....:D.

Because I still see rubble left over after the hiroshima bombing, I have to concede that WW2 construction material can withstand max power from an early atomic bomb. Oh, and because mice survived the 100 teraton K-T extinction event (hence why we are here), I must concede that the extinction event was only a few kilojoules, weaker than a hand grenade.

And you reference a INTERNAL door on a ship that i assume would get owned by a ISD shields, Armour and all.

Why so?

Oh and that one could withstand a fusion bomb (good sized what ever that is).

Good sized in Wars has got to be a heck of a lot, given that one that can fit in a desk could create a one kilometer diameter fireball (and a baradium fission bomb in the Falcon was stated to be a planet buster, and bailing at one hundred and fifty thousand kilometers was mentioned to be too risky, because they would still be inside the blast radius [and this device still wasn't stated to destroy a shipyard, but merely "put it out for decades"].

Ok so the star destroyers firepower sucks even more than i thought.

Actually, disregarding Dankayo, nobody has explained away the destruction of "all life, natural resources" or Hutt's Gambit. I invite anyone to rationalize a single cloaked ISD's ability to leave no witnesses, no survivors on a planet, including in military bunkers and deep planetary shelters deep below the surface.

Of course honest logic hurts you, after all you are a typical rabid wongite spouting doctrine in the face of such honest logic.

Funny of you to say. I fully invite you to compare the times I have cited SDN.net to the number of times Picard cites STvSW, or his blog (which is a carbon copy of the website).

Oh and your reading skills fail as he clearly says it was the ruminants from failed automatic self destructs, he also mentioned bombardment only managed to knock out the power and that is why the self destruct failed LOLOL:

"only managed"? That's funny of you to say, since the imperials obviously wanted to salvage ruins from the base.

But no, obviously the imperials conveniently stopping the power supply that would activiate the self destruct that would stop them from salvaging any information from the base is an accident due to inferior firepower.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

You are... :)

Somehow, I expected you to actually back up your claim with supporting evidence and analysis. But instead, you ran headlong into irony.

Then you have not read all the threads I was involved with...

Hell, you couldn't, so it's ok, because had you, you would have seen me defend SW against absurd Trekkie claims many times over, in fact I was the most ardent defender of SW against another Troll,. KirkSkyWalker, and his wankfest of Trekkiness...

And to what level did you defend (and I would request evidence of this) them? Defend the most extreme of Trek arguments, sure, but never against Trekkies who simply said that Trek wins after a good fight. You disagree with this (apparently), yet I never see you debating that Wars defeats Trek against a moderate Trekkie, such as JMS.

I have no reason to trust you, and I would most certainly not root for the exploration ship to be able to resist even a 1% powered DS shot...
I would more likely not believe your bullshit about SW's great aim and that the DS would be able to actually hit the ship while it was maneuvering...

You mean how it hit the Mon Cal cruiser spot on dead center? Oh, but that wasn't maneuvering. But how about when it caught the Falcon in a tracker beam from hundreds of thousands (or so) kilometers away? That seems pretty darn accurate to me, and it was the first Death Star.

If your scenario was the unaware E-E vs a fully powered DS, with the E-E sitting in front od its dish, however... Boom goes the E-E...

How about a fully powered, intelligently designed Death Star 2 versus the entire Federation starfleet (barring superweapons) in a single star system, warp and hyperdrive disabled?



Since you made no move to deny my statement that you are pro Wars, I would assume that you support Wars in a larger war (and apparently one v one as well). Why is it that you never argue for this position, except against rapid Trekkie claims?

[Praeothmin]

Why is it that you never argue for this position, except against rapid Trekkie claims?

I'm not Pro-Wars, I'm just against ST wank...
See, I stated as such many, many times, and even in threads where you posted...
But it seems I'm not the only one not reading the other's posts fully... :)

How about a fully powered, intelligently designed Death Star 2 versus the entire Federation starfleet (barring superweapons) in a single star system, warp and hyperdrive disabled?

Let me see:
-You change the actual DS design to now include intelligence in its design, yet you bar ST's most potent designs, its superweapons...
Hhhmmm, ok, I'll bite, but I'll need specifics...
What do you mean by "intelligently designed"?