Star Wars "heavy duty" sensor ranges and strength

[Airlocke_Jedi_Knight]

I think that you might be referring to the Lusankya(former SSD for the Imperials, captured by the New Republic) firing upon Borealis. That might be the reference, but I am unsure.

[Mike DiCenso]

Might be nice to have some details here. Were these shots taken at such a distance that while they might hit the planet, it would be someplace random because the targeting sensors can resolve fine detail from that distance?
-Mike

[Praeothmin]

All these ranges seem fairly stupid. We can spot extremely distant astrophysical objects and even have a good clue what they're made of, thanks to our super telescopes.

Now, these devices are based on light speed transmission of information, so there's lag.

There's also the fact that we're not trying to detect how many lifeforms there are, we cannot analyze the composition of these astrophysical objects immediately, the images have to be run through some spectral analyzers first, and also we're not trying to aim and shoot those astrophysical objects either.

The fact that their sensors are acting faster then lightspeed is a least an improvement over our current technology...

[Airlocke_Jedi_Knight]

The Lusankya bombardment was rather accurate, as it knocked out all of the ships that had attacked the planets base, without harming the base itself.

[Estrecca]

I've found something that might be of interest for this reading The Force Unleashed comic:



This conversation takes place a couple of years before the battle of Yavin so Imperial technology might have improved somewhat in the following years, but considering that this is the personal ship of Vader's secret apprentice we are probably talking about some of the most advanced stuff that the Empire had to offer in this regard at this point in time.

[Airlocke_Jedi_Knight]

Well, this does help as long as we know the area of the average star system in a modest sized galaxy.

Science is not my thing, I do have this knowledge.

[Estrecca]

Not area. Distance.

And considering that most settled worlds in the GFFA seem capable of sustaining human life, our own star system can probably be used as an adequate model of the average star system.

If we suppose that "accross an entire star system" means something in the order of "from Pluto to the Sun" we are talking about single digit billions of kilometers. Even if we are talking about the inner system, we are easily talking about many (tens to hundreds) millions of kilometers.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Dang, unless we're speaking of a relatively easy to spot target on a planet that is itself already charted and holding little secret, the amount of references or implications of in g-field or, better, in-system are piling up like jackpot coins.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Not area. Distance.

And considering that most settled worlds in the GFFA seem capable of sustaining human life, our own star system can probably be used as an adequate model of the average star system.

If we suppose that "accross an entire star system" means something in the order of "from Pluto to the Sun" we are talking about single digit billions of kilometers. Even if we are talking about the inner system, we are easily talking about many (tens to hundreds) millions of kilometers.

That is impressive; but some franchises have the bog standard ships capable of light year range scanning.

[Praeothmin]

Yeah, but compared to ST sensors that routinely detect objects at the LY mark, they're not impressive...

[Mr. Oragahn]

On a different topic, I picked this bit from SDN's hyperlane thread.
It deals with the avered existence of FTL sensors, as sensor capable of sending and receiving data waves faster than light.
Considering the general train of thought and hyperdrive values accepted for SW, and especially those accepted by SDN, one would understand that a FTL sensor used to pick ships escaping at FTL speeds, would also come with considerable ranging abilities, even if range and speed are different things.

Forgive my ignorance because I'm new, but what's the status on the debate over the presence or efficacy of FTL sensors in SW?

It should have been over the moment Han Solo walked into the game room on the Millennium Falcon in ANH and announced that he had lost his Imperial pursuers. First, it means that the ISDs tracked him into hyperspace and followed him. Second, and perhaps more importantly, it means he had some way of detecting the ISDs behind him.

In order to track an object which is following you, you need some way of getting information to propagate from the trailing ship to you, fast enough to catch you. Such detection is impossible if you cannot meet this condition. And Han Solo was able to detect whether he had lost his pursuing ISDs while still in hyperspace.

SW sensors have FTL capabilities, period. The people who claim otherwise are either clinging to EU bullshit or they're Trektards.

Here's the relevant script extract:

INTERIOR: MILLENNIUM FALCON -- CENTRAL HOLD AREA.

Ben watches Luke practice the lightsaber with a small "seeker"
robot. Ben suddenly turns away and sits down. He falters,
seems almost faint.

LUKE: Are you all right? What's wrong?

BEN: I felt a great disturbance in the Force...as if millions of
voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
I fear something terrible has happened.

Ben rubs his forehead. He seems to drift into a trance. Then
he fixes his gaze on Luke.

BEN: You'd better get on with your exercises.

Han Solo enters the room.

HAN: Well, you can forget your troubles with those Imperial slugs.
I told you I'd outrun 'em.

Luke is once again practicing with the lightsaber.

HAN: Don't everyone thank me at once.

It's necessary, first, to understand what a true FTL sensor is.

It is a sensor which, although located in normal space, can ping and collect information over distances and times greater than which photons could.

1. The first solution being to use particles naturally faster than light. Simple.
2. The second being sending slower than light particles, or just more simple, obvious and likely any radiation (that is c fast anyway), into a dimension which the sensor is capable of making contact with.
   Hyperspace would be a dimension being a contraction of normal space. It's a mirror region, or a form of folded space, where for the same movement within that region, you travel far greater distances in normal space, according to proportional factors defined by the hyperdrive speed.
   
   Thus, the sensor would be managing the transfer of particles from in and out the region; imagine, for example, that the sensor casts a field into this region like a dragging fishing net, around the "shadow" of that sensor's location, where it were supposed to be if it were present in hyperspace. Once particles are caught from hyperspace, they're transfered back into normal space, or directly "read" from hyperspace.

But what can we see from those multiple EU references?

First, obviously, even if SW ships had FTL sensors, their range would be absurdly limited in comparison to their speed, so much that they could only work for a micro or nanosecond before being lost and unable to track or ping anything.

Secondly, is there any evidence that sensors can pick any data from hyperspace, while sitting in normal space?

We have two beacon cases from the movies, first in the prequels, with Obi-Wan latching a beacon onto the hull of Slave-I, and the second one, with the Imperials, following Tarkin's plan, putting a beacon onboard the Millenium Falcon.
In both cases, and that's where it's interesting, both the Slave-I and the Millenium Falcon are soon to be followed, in hyperspace, respectively by Obi-Wan's Aethersprite Delta-7, and by the Death Star.
The idea is that the beacons leave a trail, a series of ripples in hyperspace, which any ship in hyperspace can follow, as long as the signal doesn't get too weak (which implies not waiting too long to jump into hyperspace thereafter the originally tracked ship jumped).
It certainly does not make those sensors FTL ones. It just means that within a faster than light medium (hyperspace), any matter, any particle, can still move at normal speeds (in reference to the ships in hyperspace), but cover corresponding greater distances in real space.

More importantly, the hyperdrive factor would be a multiplier, in the sense that for example, if you'd shoot photons at 10c, they'd travel slower than those shot at 20c.

It's like having two persons running on floors at the same speed, safe that one of these floors belongs to a house (fixed), the other belongs to a bullet train (moving faster than the house).
From the perspective of the guy in the house, the one in the train would be moving faster than any human could naturally.

So applied to Han trying to outrun ISDs at a time the ship had no beacon, what can we say?

First, let's presume that one can estimate the projected trajectory of an hyperspace jump merely by analyzing said jump. It assumes the way a ship jumps into hyperspace gives clues. But that would be a good reason why ships make multiple jumps to elude pursuers.

From there, we can assess that Han kept an eye to check if ISDs' scanning waves were catching up with the Millenium Falcon. If not, and after a reasonable time left surveying the possibly pursuit, any lack of scan waves moving faster than the Millenium Falcon would either mean the Imperials were looking in the wrong direction, or were too slow.
After a while, Han assumed everything was clear and they were safe.

One grip is this wonderful speculation would be any reference about sensors capable of sensing the imminent arrival of ships from hyperspace.

We also have to consider the existence of the Holonet and possible difference of media between hyperspace and subspace, both used to transmit information iirc.

[Who is like God arbour]

It should have been over the moment Han Solo walked into the game room on the Millennium Falcon in ANH and announced that he had lost his Imperial pursuers. First, it means that the ISDs tracked him into hyperspace and followed him. Second, and perhaps more importantly, it means he had some way of detecting the ISDs behind him.

In order to track an object which is following you, you need some way of getting information to propagate from the trailing ship to you, fast enough to catch you. Such detection is impossible if you cannot meet this condition. And Han Solo was able to detect whether he had lost his pursuing ISDs while still in hyperspace.

SW sensors have FTL capabilities, period. The people who claim otherwise are either clinging to EU bullshit or they're Trektards.

That seems to me a very curios interpretation of that scene. But that is typically for Darth Wrong.

To me, that scene seems to indicate, that, at that time, the Millennium Falcon was already in hyperspace for quite a while and that all have known, that they have leaved behind their pursuers.

As it was pursued in real space, Han, Chewie and the passengers were in the cockpit and were tensed up. Then, they have escaped to hyperspace; and in the next scene, we see Chewie and the passengers »relaxing« in the Main Hold. Chewie and the droids have played chess and Obi Wan and Luke have trained their version of blindman's buff.

The plausible interpretation to me seems to be, that it was quite a while, since they have entered hyperspace, possible hours, if not days. Because, if it was only moments before, it wouldn't be plausible, that they have started to play these games. They have reached Alderaan only minutes after Han has entered Main Hold. If they would have entered hyperspace only moments before, the whole journey from Tatooine to Alderaan would have lasted only a few minutes. But if they would have expected only such a short travel time, it would be unlikely, that the copilot would have left the cockpit at all and that they would have started with these leisure activities - especially if pursuers would have followed them into hyperspace.

And it indicates, that they have already known, that there was no real danger any more; that they have leaved behind their pursuers. Otherwise, they wouldn't have relaxed, especially if pursuers would have followed them the whole time before. And the copilot of the Millennium Falcon, Chewie, wouldn't play chess with the passengers but would be in the cockpit, ready for an immanent attack. It's plausible, that he would have left the cockpit not until the danger has been over.

Therefore, Hans announcement at that moment seems to me to be less an information, because they have already known, that they have lost their pursuers because otherwise they wouldn't have relaxed, but more a fishing for compliments after Luke has, at least at two times, openly doubted the abilities of the ship and its captain. It could be as well, that it was only a try to start a conversation.

But never would have I interpreted that scene the way, Darth Wrong has done it; that they were pursued into hyperspace and for quite a while, while already in hyperspace, and have leaved behind their pursuers only shortly before Han has announced it.

Darth Wrongs conclusions, that the ISDs have tracked the Millennium Falcon into hyperspace and have followed it and that Han has had some way of detecting the ISDs behind him in hyperspace, depends totally on his peculiar interpretation of that scene. But maybe it is a good example for a goal-oriented interpretation.

[Praeothmin]

Well, I believe that their interpretation of that scene comes from the fact that they seem to believe that "Hyperspace" and "realspace" are the same, just like "Subspace" and "realspace" in ST.

But a lot of things I read and saw in SW lead me to believe otherwise.
I think that most SW ship can "track" (i.e. predict) the direction of one's Hyperspace jump according to its orientation and the time it takes said ship to calculate route.
Once in Hyperspace, however, a ship following another could easily use it's standard sensors when both of them are there, and track it.
That may have been what Han was looking for, and "echo" in Hyperspace" indicating a following ship.