Hiking through the Endor woods

[Jedi Master Spock]

You're seriously subscribing to the notion it took 12 HOURS for Han and co. to get to the control room from the bunker entrance, that it would take 12 HOURS for the Imperials seen running in to the bunker to 12 MORE HOURS to reach the same control room to arrest Han and co., and Han set the charges and ran at full tilt for 12 MORE HOURS outside the bunker before the control room blew?

And you, in counteraction of this, are suggesting that they entered through a secret back door of an large Imperial compex on the other side of a ridge, sprinted through a maze of tunnels stealthily into the central control room, and were marched all the way back out in scant minutes? Or seconds? During which the Ewok army sprinted - again, completely stealthy in spite of their incredible speed - through the woods into position around the assembled Imperial troops, who also marched over from the main complex in moments?

We're dealing with people moving over a multi-klick theater of operations, mostly by foot. You may not like multiple days, but your reasons for not liking multiple days have little to do with what I have argued for.

Even without looking at the minutiae of sun angles, it's pretty clearly morning when the fleet launches, and afternoon when they finally arrive.

And your inattention to the EU is showing. An X-Wing would not need to refuel after a couple days elapsed in hyperspace.

Other than that, and the framerate I got with it, there were some funny moments. Leia asking Han if they're lost is the bright point.

If so, the question of your employment in anything higher than baggage boy at a supermarket seriously comes in to question

Save that sort of stuff for SDN.

[Cock_Knocker]

You're seriously subscribing to the notion it took 12 HOURS for Han and co. to get to the control room from the bunker entrance, that it would take 12 HOURS for the Imperials seen running in to the bunker to 12 MORE HOURS to reach the same control room to arrest Han and co., and Han set the charges and ran at full tilt for 12 MORE HOURS outside the bunker before the control room blew?

And you, in counteraction of this, are suggesting that they entered through a secret back door of an large Imperial compex on the other side of a ridge, sprinted through a maze of tunnels stealthily into the central control room, and were marched all the way back out in scant minutes?
Or seconds?

And again, you dismiss the silly notion that it took 12 HOURS for Han and the rebels to get to the control room without being discovered, that it took 12 MORE hours for the Imperials to run in to this "maze of tunnels" (And where is the proof of said maze, BTW? Quotes? Schematics? Anything?)and Han armed charges and ran out of the "maze" in a little less than 12 hours. On top of that, you side step the notion that the Rebels would blow the shield generator FOUR DAYS before the fleet gets there. Yeah, some surprise attack. Also, I noticed you threw in the "ridge" red herring. That no longer applies to what we're discussing once they're already AT the bunker. Try not to muddy up the discussion too much.

During which the Ewok army sprinted - again, completely stealthy in spite of their incredible speed - through the woods into position around the assembled Imperial troops, who also marched over from the main complex in moments?

First of all, the Imperials coming to capture them already knew they were there, thanks to the Emperor. Secondly, you need to prove that Ewoks were somehow DAYS away. Proof? Quotes?

We're dealing with people moving over a multi-klick theater of operations, mostly by foot.

Proof? Quotes? How did Han and co. get there in less than four days? They were on foot, too.

You may not like multiple days,

Because there's zero proof of such a thing, and is ridiculous in the face of the overall movie. And common sense.

but your reasons for not liking multiple days have little to do with what I have argued for.

Which is proven to be incorrect, and unsubstantiated by anything in the movie, canon, or EU.

Even without looking at the minutiae of sun angles, it's pretty clearly morning when the fleet launches, and afternoon when they finally arrive.

That still doesn't equate to five days of travel time between Sullust to Endor.

And your inattention to the EU is showing. An X-Wing would not need to refuel after a couple days elapsed in hyperspace.

The video isn't canon, and didn't really happen, which reflects the webpage it's based on. And you are still side-stepping the most important question that scene brings up: Why launch fighters if it takes 5 days to arrive at the destination? Why have pilots use up all their emergency rations for no reason, especially if they might need them in case they're shot down? Why have them burn 5 days of fuel unnecessarily, when they might need it for dogfights? Why put the pilots through 5 days of sitting in a cockpit unnecessarily?

Other than that, and the framerate I got with it,

Such snide comments betray your Mr. Rogers demeanor. If you're trying to say the video itself has framerate problems because it was poorly put together, then be a man and say so. It doesn't actually, and I told you the solution to your problem. If that doesn't work for you, try the Youtube link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNxSTNZNbTo

If you still have problems after that, I suggest more memory for your computer.

there were some funny moments. Leia asking Han if they're lost is the bright point.

Thanks!

Save that sort of stuff for SDN.

Sure thing. Saying I'm not too bright, but in a "polite" way is ok, then?

[Jedi Master Spock]

And again, you dismiss the silly notion that it took 12 HOURS for Han and the rebels to get to the control room without being discovered, that it took 12 MORE hours for the Imperials to run in to this "maze of tunnels" (And where is the proof of said maze, BTW? Quotes? Schematics? Anything?)and Han armed charges and ran out of the "maze" in a little less than 12 hours. On top of that, you side step the notion that the Rebels would blow the shield generator FOUR DAYS before the fleet gets there. Yeah, some surprise attack. Also, I noticed you threw in the "ridge" red herring. That no longer applies to what we're discussing once they're already AT the bunker. Try not to muddy up the discussion too much.

Novelization: "Apparently Wicket knows about a back door to this installation."

Also: Four Imperial scouts kept watch over the entrance to the bunker that emerged far to the rear of the main section of the shield generator complex.

Film: THREEPIO He says there's a secret entrance on the
other side of the ridge.

The entrance they come in through - i.e., the famous bunker - is on the other side of the ridge in the distance, i.e., also on the opposite side of that ridge from the main complex, which they can see in front of the ridge, and far to the rear of the main section, which presumably includes the shield generator. If that ridge is closer than two klicks I'll be amazed.

And the tunnels? From the novelization, tunnel:

Furtively she led the way down the dark and low-beamed tunnel.

(Leia's in the lead, FYI.) And maze?

Han, Chewie, Leia, and a dozen Rebel commandos made their way through labyrinthine corridors toward the area where the shield generator was waiting on their map.

First of all, the Imperials coming to capture them already knew they were there, thanks to the Emperor. Secondly, you need to prove that Ewoks were somehow DAYS away. Proof? Quotes?

I don't, since as I've stated earlier, I favor a matter of hours. That it's a good hike from the Ewok village is established pretty well, especially since the Rebels show up on the far side from the entrance they actually knew.

IMO, there's no reason to assume the Imperials entering the bunker were doing anything more than blocking off an avenue of escape. There should have been a lot right near the command center.

Proof? Quotes? How did Han and co. get there in less than four days? They were on foot, too.

Strawman much? If someone is in good shape, they can walk a hundred klicks in a day.

However, short legged Ewoks are not going to make the hike to the far side of the Imperial shield generator complex in minutes. It's going to be at least on the order of hours, given short Ewok legs.

but your reasons for not liking multiple days have little to do with what I have argued for.

Which is proven to be incorrect, and unsubstantiated by anything in the movie, canon, or EU.

No, they really don't have much to do with it. I'm talking about a quarter to a half day, while you're arguing against five days. Arguments aimed an order of magnitude off simply don't translate very well.

That still doesn't equate to five days of travel time between Sullust to Endor.

Take that argument up with 2046. I'm not advancing five days.

The video isn't canon

Nor does it reflect the canon in its treament of the evidence. Not as you measure it. There's something to be said for the internal consistency of an argument.

And you are still side-stepping the most important question that scene brings up: Why launch fighters if it takes 5 days to arrive at the destination? Why have pilots use up all their emergency rations for no reason, especially if they might need them in case they're shot down? Why have them burn 5 days of fuel unnecessarily, when they might need it for dogfights? Why put the pilots through 5 days of sitting in a cockpit unnecessarily?

I've addressed the version of this complaint that can be addressed to my argument before.

Such snide comments betray your Mr. Rogers demeanor. If you're trying to say the video itself has framerate problems because it was poorly put together, then be a man and say so.

Did you know that you're implicitly insulting women when you say things like that? Not to call this a warning, mind, I'm not taking offense personally, but it's a habit of speech I've started to notice seems to be common here when tempers run thin, and I can't think it's a great one.

Personally, I'm blaming Safari for the framerate. Since I usually don't use a Mac OS, and people rarely test websites on Safari, it's the likeliest cause. Loading the video all the way didn't change anything.

Sure thing. Saying I'm not too bright, but in a "polite" way is ok, then?

I'm not seeing where he called you stupid. He's said all sorts of polite but bad things about your video, and did tell you to shut up (which is a little bit rude). Can you be more specific? All I'm getting is that he doesn't find the video funny or interesting, and I don't think there's anything wrong with giving a bad review provided you can refrain from gratuitous insults to the author.

He thinks it fails because it doesn't offer an argument and he doesn't find it funny. I think some parts are funny, although it's a little long. Perhaps for deliberate effect, but that doesn't mean that I liked that choice.

[Cock_Knocker]

For me, that means, that he not only wants to hear, how funny we have found his video. He seems to want a review or a critique. And that's what I have given him.

Just not an informed or correct critique. I couldn't care less if you "liked" it or not.

And again, you dismiss the silly notion that it took 12 HOURS for Han and the rebels to get to the control room without being discovered, that it took 12 MORE hours for the Imperials to run in to this "maze of tunnels" (And where is the proof of said maze, BTW? Quotes? Schematics? Anything?)and Han armed charges and ran out of the "maze" in a little less than 12 hours. On top of that, you side step the notion that the Rebels would blow the shield generator FOUR DAYS before the fleet gets there. Yeah, some surprise attack. Also, I noticed you threw in the "ridge" red herring. That no longer applies to what we're discussing once they're already AT the bunker. Try not to muddy up the discussion too much.

Novelization: "Apparently Wicket knows about a back door to this installation."

=snip further red herrings=

Apparently, you've failed to read my above post carefully, so I'll try to reiterate. My objection to using the "ridge" comment stemmed from them already being AT the door to the bunker. So using the "other side of the ridge" to explain why it took them 12 hours to walk to the control room from the back door of the bunker is a red herring in itself. The last sentence of the above post clearly explains this.

And the tunnels? From the novelization, tunnel:

Furtively she led the way down the dark and low-beamed tunnel.

Ah, selective quoting. I haven't seen this since Elim Garak from ASVS... Of course, I said "maze of tunnels", referring to some fictional area they were easily lost in. I didn't say there WERE no tunnels.

(Leia's in the lead, FYI.) And maze?

Han, Chewie, Leia, and a dozen Rebel commandos made their way through labyrinthine corridors toward the area where the shield generator was waiting on their map.

Uh, did you read and understand what you've just posted? Not only did they know where they were going, they had a map to aid them. There's absolutely nothing in that quote or any other source that says it will take 12 HOURS to walk from the back door of the bunker to the control room. The 12 hour assertion needs to be proven (and not disproved by me) by either a canon, or an official source. Not fan (or in this case, non-fan) speculation.

First of all, the Imperials coming to capture them already knew they were there, thanks to the Emperor. Secondly, you need to prove that Ewoks were somehow DAYS away. Proof? Quotes?

I don't, since as I've stated earlier, I favor a matter of hours.

This video is based on Darkstar's comedic webpage. Moving on...

IMO, there's no reason to assume the Imperials entering the bunker were doing anything more than blocking off an avenue of escape.

Your opinion runs counter to the obvious intent of what the movie is showing us. The Imperials obviously didn't sprint into the entrance, then stop just inside the doorway.

Proof? Quotes? How did Han and co. get there in less than four days? They were on foot, too.

Strawman much? If someone is in good shape, they can walk a hundred klicks in a day.

Strawman? No, common sense. It was the next morning after recruiting the Ewoks that Han and co. were at the ridge. Not four days later.

[However, short legged Ewoks are not going to make the hike to the far side of the Imperial shield generator complex in minutes. It's going to be at least on the order of hours, given short Ewok legs.

But not four days. Bright Tree Village wasn't that far away.

[No, they really don't have much to do with it. I'm talking about a quarter to a half day, while you're arguing against five days. Arguments aimed an order of magnitude off simply don't translate very well.

Then you shouldn't try to shoehorn your Endor timeline into this discussion, which is about Darkstar's timeline, correct?

Take that argument up with 2046. I'm not advancing five days.

Then we're done here on this subject. The video is based on Darkstar's timeline, obviously. Not yours.

Such snide comments betray your Mr. Rogers demeanor. If you're trying to say the video itself has framerate problems because it was poorly put together, then be a man and say so.

Did you know that you're implicitly insulting women when you say things like that? Not to call this a warning, mind, I'm not taking offense personally, but it's a habit of speech I've started to notice seems to be common here when tempers run thin, and I can't think it's a great one.

The only thing that's thin is your laughably false attempt at rightous indignation. My comment "be a man" implies that I'm talking to a man who is not acting in the fashion a man is expected to act. This used to imply a man stands by the courage of his convictions rather than couch them in doublespeak. If you are female, then I apologize. Or is English your second language?

I'm not seeing where he called you stupid.

That's not surprising, really. I've had to point it out to you in the past. Anyway, there's no other way to take the following snide comment:

To be honest, your video is preposterous and doesn't show much sharpness.

[Jedi Master Spock]

Apparently, you've failed to read my above post carefully, so I'll try to reiterate. My objection to using the "ridge" comment stemmed from them already being AT the door to the bunker. So using the "other side of the ridge" to explain why it took them 12 hours to walk to the control room from the back door of the bunker is a red herring in itself. The last sentence of the above post clearly explains this.

Apparently you didn't read mine very carefully before "snipping," so we'll take this one thing at a time. The fact that you're still talking about 12 hours is a dead giveaway; you're still arguing against a strawman.

The main shield generator dish is on the near side of the ridge, and the bunker on the far side. That puts it on the opposite side of the ridge not only from the Rebels' initial perch, but also the main complex.

Do you now understand? The position of the bunker is distant from the shuttlepad, distant from the dish, and presumably distant from the main control room, easily explaining - requiring, in fact - several hours of walking.

[Cock_Knocker]

Apparently you didn't read mine very carefully before "snipping," so we'll take this one thing at a time. The fact that you're still talking about 12 hours is a dead giveaway; you're still arguing against a strawman.

The main shield generator dish is on the near side of the ridge, and the bunker on the far side. That puts it on the opposite side of the ridge not only from the Rebels' initial perch, but also the main complex.

Do you now understand? The position of the bunker is distant from the shuttlepad, distant from the dish, and presumably distant from the main control room, easily explaining - requiring, in fact - several hours of walking.

No, yet AGAIN, you still have absolutely ZERO EVIDENCE that the control room is somehow directly under the dish seen earlier, you have ZERO EVIDENCE it takes 12 hours to walk to the other side of the ridge, and you have ZERO EVIDENCE it takes 12 hours to walk from the bunker doors to the control room. I can't make this any clearer.

[Jedi Master Spock]

The fact that you're still talking about 12 hours is a dead giveaway; you're still arguing against a strawman.

you have ZERO EVIDENCE it takes 12 hours to walk to the other side of the ridge, and you have ZERO EVIDENCE it takes 12 hours to walk from the bunker doors to the control room. I can't make this any clearer.

Can I make this any clearer? You're arguing against a strawman and not reading my arguments.

No, yet AGAIN, you still have absolutely ZERO EVIDENCE that the control room is somehow directly under the dish seen earlier

Really? I've given you a quote indicating it is "far away" from the main section, and also pointed out that the ridge is kilometers distant from the near section.

And why would the Rebels be considering going in the main entrance if the control room is distant from it? Why, for that matter, would the Imperials put the main control room far away from the main entrance, from the shield generator, and from the shuttlepad, and yet close to a bunker that's not even in sight of the main complex?

I have presented evidence that firmly indicates both that the initial survey is distant from the back entrance (multiple km), and that the back entrance is remote from the main complex (greater than a km at a minimum). You, meanwhile, have continued talking about the five day timeline several posts after I've reminded you that is not my position.

Now, we have four walking speed hikes by the Rebels in the total timeline of events. Three take place after the Rebel fleet launches.

One, they hike from the Ewok village to the Imperial complex. The fleet launches while they survey the scene. Two, they hike from the shuttlepad main entrance side of the Imperial complex to the distant far side of the ridge on the other side of the valley the base is in. Three, they hike from that far bunker back into the main complex. Four, they are marched from there back out to the bunker.

[Cock_Knocker]

It seems quite clear that you are going to continue to dismiss what I'm arguing by attempting to showehorn YOUR Endor timeline theory in here. This won't work; sorry JMS. No one but you 6 regular posters here is going to fall for that. The video and accompanying arguments refer to Darkstar's timeline once again, and not yours. But I strongly suspect you already understand that.

[Jedi Master Spock]

It seems quite clear that you are going to continue to dismiss what I'm arguing by attempting to showehorn YOUR Endor timeline theory in here.

If only now you realize that I was pointing out that your video (a) did not advance arguments in favor of an exceptionally short timeline and (b) did not address the timeline which I have argued for, then you have been reading very incautiously indeed.

The video and accompanying arguments refer to Darkstar's timeline once again, and not yours.

In which case, why reply to points that began with my saying this:

You may not like multiple days, but your reasons for not liking multiple days have little to do with what I have argued for.

I also asked you quite directly how quickly you thought the timeline moved:

And you, in counteraction of this, are suggesting that they entered through a secret back door of an large Imperial compex on the other side of a ridge, sprinted through a maze of tunnels stealthily into the central control room, and were marched all the way back out in scant minutes? Or seconds?

You did not actually answer this question. How long do you think it took the Rebels to march around the Imperial base to the opposite side of that ridge, then march through labyrinthine corridors, then be captured and marched back out?

[Cock_Knocker]

If only now you realize that I was pointing out that your video (a) did not advance arguments in favor of an exceptionally short timeline and (b) did not address the timeline which I have argued for, then you have been reading very incautiously indeed.

Uh, no. I didn't "only now" realize it. The video and accompanying argument statyed on topic until you tried to merge your theory in there. That's quite clear to everyone else.

Where IS your theory, BTW? Did you write a webpage about it somewhere? It would be nice to have it in one solid place, unchanging.

You did not actually answer this question.

That's because I was staying on topic.

How long do you think it took the Rebels to march around the Imperial base to the opposite side of that ridge, then march through labyrinthine corridors, then be captured and marched back out?

There's no definite timeline for the march to the back door, so I have no concrete figures. Based on the movie and its intent, it wasn't 12 hours, or even 5 hours.

The trip into the corridors where offscreen they encountered Stormtroopers, was certainly not hours. There's nothing in the novel or the movie to supports this. The deleted scenes also show that the corridors weren't so cavernous that the Rebels would easily get lost for 12 hours, especially since they had a map.





The comic adaption of that scene is not supported by the novel, but WAS approved by Lucasfilm, which supports a MUCH quicker trip to the control room than some would like. This also is fully supported by the fact that they encountered Stormtroopers as they approached the control room. There's no "pulled out of thin air" reasoning possible that the stormtroopers would let the Rebels flit around in the bunker for 12 hours.

Also, here's a more accurate excerpt from the novelization:

Han, Chewie, Leia, and a dozen commandos made their way down the labyrinthine corridors toward the area where the shield generator room was marked on the stolen map. Yellow lights illuminated the low rafters, casting long shadows at each intersection. At the first three turnings, all remained quiet; they saw no guard or worker.

At the fourth cross-corridor, six Imperial stormtroopers stood a wary watch.
There was no way around; the section had to be traversed.

Han and Leia looked at each other and shrugged; there was nothing for it but to fight.
With pistols drawn, they barged into the entryway. Almost as if they'd been expecting an attack, the guards instantly crouched and began firing their own weapons. A barrage of laserbolts followed, ricocheting from girder to floor. Two stormtroopers were hit immediately. A third lost his gun; pinned behind a refrigerator console, he was unable to do much but stay low.

Two more stood behind a fire door, though, and blasted each commando who tried to get through. Four went down. The guards were virtually impregnable behind their vulcanized shield - but virtually didn't account for wookies.

Chewbacca rushed the door, physically dislodging it on top of the two stormtroopers. They were crushed.

Leia shot the sixth guard as he stood to draw a bead on Chewie. The trooper who'd been crouching beneath the refrigeration unit suddenly bolted, to go for help. Han raced after him a few long strides and brought him down with a flying tackle. He was out cold.

They checked themselves over, accounted for casualties. Not too bad - but it had been noisy. They'd have to hurry now, before a general alarm was set. The power center that controlled the shield generator was very near. And there would be no second chances.

[Jedi Master Spock]

Uh, no. I didn't "only now" realize it. The video and accompanying argument statyed on topic until you tried to merge your theory in there.

Meaning on page 1, then?

That's because I was staying on topic.

By all means, would you like to move to a different thread? I can split the entire exchange between us into one.

There's no definite timeline for the march to the back door, so I have no concrete figures. Based on the movie and its intent, it wasn't 12 hours, or even 5 hours.

The trip into the corridors where offscreen they encountered Stormtroopers, was certainly not hours. There's nothing in the novel or the movie to supports this.

Actually, there is, and I've pointed that out. The sheer distance involved suggests an hour or more - for that segment of the trip, which should be the quickest of the three.

5 hours for that segment alone would be pushing it. If the back door is on the other side of the ridge, then it shouldn't be more than 10 km from the command center as the crow flies (peak-to-peak distances in the area seem to be consistently less than that), and shouldn't be more than 20 km through the corridors. At a reasonably brisk hike, 20 km can take four hours.

The deleted scenes also show that the corridors weren't so cavernous that the Rebels would easily get lost for 12 hours, especially since they had a map.


The comic adaption of that scene is not supported by the novel, but WAS approved by Lucasfilm, which supports a MUCH quicker trip to the control room than some would like.

I see nothing about the comic that bars hours. "Soon" is a very broad term.

This also is fully supported by the fact that they encountered Stormtroopers as they approached the control room. There's no "pulled out of thin air" reasoning possible that the stormtroopers would let the Rebels flit around in the bunker for 12 hours.

And again you're talking about 12 hours in the corridor - and again not greatly concerned about distances.

Is it a surprise that one would eventually encounter stormtroopers? Or that they'd need to hurry after doing so, because it's possible that someone heard the shooting and, upon investigating, would call for a general alarm - meaning the odds of running into larger patrols of stormtroopers would increase sharply?

Also, here's a more accurate excerpt from the novelization:

Not more accurate, simply longer.

Now, review the close of that scene:

They checked themselves over, accounted for casualties. Not too bad - but it had been noisy. They'd have to hurry now, before a general alarm was set. The power center that controlled the shield generator was very near. And there would be no second chances.

So a large and noisy firefight was probably within earshot of someone else, but not close enough that a patrol would show up within moments. In fact, they have time to check over everything and leave the scene before anybody figures out where that noise was coming from.

In context, "very near" probably means they've gotten to within a kilometer - and we have no idea how frequent cross corridors are. The first cross corridor probably isn't close, given the bunker extends into the hill and no other Imperial structures are visible from its location. I wouldn't expect to see any cross corridors until the tunnel joined with the main complex (which, in and of itself, is fairly large.)

[Mr. Oragahn]

Also, here's a more accurate excerpt from the novelization:

Han, Chewie, Leia, and a dozen commandos made their way down the labyrinthine corridors toward the area where the shield generator room was marked on the stolen map. Yellow lights illuminated the low rafters, casting long shadows at each intersection. At the first three turnings, all remained quiet; they saw no guard or worker.

At the fourth cross-corridor, six Imperial stormtroopers stood a wary watch.
There was no way around; the section had to be traversed.

Han and Leia looked at each other and shrugged; there was nothing for it but to fight.
With pistols drawn, they barged into the entryway. Almost as if they'd been expecting an attack, the guards instantly crouched and began firing their own weapons. A barrage of laserbolts followed, ricocheting from girder to floor. Two stormtroopers were hit immediately. A third lost his gun; pinned behind a refrigerator console, he was unable to do much but stay low.

Two more stood behind a fire door, though, and blasted each commando who tried to get through. Four went down. The guards were virtually impregnable behind their vulcanized shield - but virtually didn't account for wookies.

Chewbacca rushed the door, physically dislodging it on top of the two stormtroopers. They were crushed.

Leia shot the sixth guard as he stood to draw a bead on Chewie. The trooper who'd been crouching beneath the refrigeration unit suddenly bolted, to go for help. Han raced after him a few long strides and brought him down with a flying tackle. He was out cold.

They checked themselves over, accounted for casualties. Not too bad - but it had been noisy. They'd have to hurry now, before a general alarm was set. The power center that controlled the shield generator was very near. And there would be no second chances.

Ah, at last, some real details.
Now, do we know what the distance was between each turning?

Oh, better. Couldn't we just merge that stuff with the other thread.
This one has derailed towards technical argumentation, so it's not suited here anymore, and zapping between two threads on the exact same topic is absurd.

EDIT: About the ridge's lenght, there's no evidence that the crest would encircle the base. It could just be a short chain of peaks, ending on the right or left side of the screen, by the time Solo, Organa and co were looking at the base, with Wicket and 3PO behind.

Secondly, I didn't notice any alarm when the rebels got inside the control room for the first time.
There's probably been a game of cat and mouse, especially since stormtroopers were sent into the bunker after the rebels got inside.

That alarm may have been switched off with some remote control panel at some point, otherwise I don't see how the Imps in the control room could get attacked in such a surprise. Ok, could have been a trap, but still, a trap with no stormtroopers prepared to pick up the rebels and stop them before they get to the controls, and eventually blow up the generators in a suicide mission, is very dangerous. Besides, had there been any action nearby, I suppose some of the Imps in that control sector would have been on their guards and had the sector under heavier surveillance.

The way the rebels got inside the base was rather easy, likely on purpose, so there would be very little fights to expect.
That alarm, again, is a problem, because there was nothing such as an alarm when the rebels busted in the control room.

[Jedi Master Spock]

Split to a new thread. Granted, now it's particularly messy in that the topic is scattered over three threads. We should have a thread merge tool soon enough. The server's being balky about backing up files.

I am in particular interested in how far apart folks think everything is, even if Cock_Knocker does not further reply; meanwhile, the other thread is digressing more to general hyperdrive timing.