Oberth-class Starship vs. Disney-canon ISD

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Khas
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Oberth-class Starship vs. Disney-canon ISD

Post by Khas » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:26 am

Okay, I'm just desperate to find ANY possibly fair Trek-vs-Wars starship match-up nowadays, so... here goes.

1 Federation Oberth-class Starship vs. 1 Imperial Star Destroyer (Disney canon).

And yes, I know that the Oberth-class can be one-shotted by a Klingon Bird-of-Prey. But with the nerfing of SW that's been going on for the past decade, I just want to see if 1-on-1 starship matches could still work.

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Re: Oberth-class Starship vs. Disney-canon ISD

Post by 2046 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:40 am

If the ISD is anything like the TLJ opening battle, the Oberth just has to fly directly at it somewhat quickly and it will be perfectly safe. However, if difficulties are encountered, the ship can swing out to a handful of kilometers distance and be fine for hours.

If the Oberth captain is evil, they could assassinate the other captain by hailing and doing the Laurel and Hardy "Who's on First" bit until the TLJ-esque Imperial captain's head explodes.

Aw crap, now I have to go check if an Oberth could fit the nose of an ISD within its open center just to screw with an Imperial Hux ("I've got your nose!”), or even to pull a Rogue One. I doubt it fits but that'd be hella-cool.

Sorry if this response seemed un-serious, but so did TLJ.

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Re: Oberth-class Starship vs. Disney-canon ISD

Post by Khas » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:22 pm

Ya know... only three years ago, I would have laughed my ass off at anyone who said that an Oberth could defeat an ISD.

Nowadays though.... it's a different story.

Sad to think that a starship that Federation civilians can use and own would defeat one of the prides of the Imperial Navy.

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Re: Oberth-class Starship vs. Disney-canon ISD

Post by 2046 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:14 pm

Image

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Re: Oberth-class Starship vs. Disney-canon ISD

Post by 2046 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:39 pm

'Memery' aside, the ship-to-ship stuff ended for me in 2007.

http://weblog.st-v-sw.net/2007/04/tacti ... w-its.html

And that was even before the Disney canon, to which I do not subscribe.

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Re: Oberth-class Starship vs. Disney-canon ISD

Post by Mike DiCenso » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:27 pm

The thing that got me was the cringe-inducing nonsense from that anon Warsie. I'd almost forgotten people like that existed back then.
-Mike

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Re: Oberth-class Starship vs. Disney-canon ISD

Post by 2046 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:31 am

Oh my goodness, I didn't scroll down to the comments when I linked to it. Oy vey.

Verily, the argument that any short-range fight disproves long-range ones is a true classic for the ages.

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Re: Oberth-class Starship vs. Disney-canon ISD

Post by sonofccn » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:20 am

I guess load the hanger bay with a bunch of those one-hundred megaton missiles from Plan of Dissent {Clone Wars-04}, microjump point blank with the Oberth and Missile Macross the bastard?

Edit: Going to be honest, minus having several hundred million more dollars for special effects, this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9seFVJuzRSM doesn't look remarkably different from this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owP8rodvksA. The Birds of Preys and Battlebugs even mimic the Tie Fighters and A-wing attacking each other.

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Re: Oberth-class Starship vs. Disney-canon ISD

Post by Darth Spock » Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:36 pm

sonofccn wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:20 am
Edit: Going to be honest, minus having several hundred million more dollars for special effects, this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9seFVJuzRSM doesn't look remarkably different from this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owP8rodvksA. The Birds of Preys and Battlebugs even mimic the Tie Fighters and A-wing attacking each other.
I dunno, Poe's attack kinda reminds me of THIS.

qatlh ghaH SoH be' blasting ghu'vam puny bIQ Duj!?
ghu'vam bIQ Duj tlhoy mach je tlhoy Sum

I mean, the Defiant has got to be going at least half as fast, maintaining a typical distance only about ten times farther, while only having a target silhouette about a hundred times larger. Of course the X-wing could never penetrate the cruiser's armor, so it's ok. :P
2046 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:40 am
Aw crap, now I have to go check if an Oberth could fit the nose of an ISD within its open center just to screw with an Imperial Hux ("I've got your nose!”), or even to pull a Rogue One. I doubt it fits but that'd be hella-cool.
That… would actually be kinda funny. Better yet, have DISCO teach them how to do that spinny move and make the ISD do-a-barrel-roll!

Image
Wat?

Image
Spinning is a good trick!


But regarding OP question: I vote draw. With the ISD's proven track record of awfulness in overwhelming pretty much any target unless they either could not or would not bug out, coupled with warp drive's versatility over a hyper drive, the ISD likely won't even get a chance to really do anything unless it ambushes it from hyperspace. On the other hand, I'm still not sold on ST's firepower supremacy such that an Oberth could actually take down the ISD. Even if the 'lil O warps out to long range and starts throwing fire at the ISD, if the Imperial captain doesn't like the way things are going, they’re just as capable of going FTL.

Honestly, my take on SW vs. ST hasn't shifted that much even post Disney. Some, but not much. I think I've said it before, but I've noticed that the longer a franchise lasts, the less consistent and generally weaker it becomes. That goes for Star Trek as much as Star Wars. While SW definitely seems to have slipped further, they both appear to be following the current trends in storytelling and VFX. Instead of Cold War era storytelling in a nuclear space age, we have social justice war era storytelling in the day of gasoline fireballs and comic book movies. C'est la vie.

This isn't just a matter of ST Disco either. While I would describe the new show as more "cinematic" that is not just a comparison to Abram's NuTrek. From what I've seen, the general style and especially the combat reminds me just as much of ST IX: Insurrection and X: Nemesis as not.
The Death Glider lookalike pre-BoP combat seen in DISCO's S1E4 "The Butcher Knife..." is basically just DS9 S7E7 "Once More Unto the Breach" the prequel, only this time with ships going boom while in atmosphere as the miners look on. This came along side Klingon corpses being in surprisingly good condition in the Battle at Binary Stars. Given the size of the battle zone and the speeds observed, that puts some limits on how much energy was being discharged in the vicinity.
That isn't completely new either, having been flirted with in old 'Trek too. BoPs and an Hideki were seen going boom dangerously close to DS9 in the past, and VOY S:4E:3 “Day of Honor” had a warp capable shuttle blow up pretty close to Paris and Torres, and they didn’t even have shuttle hatches as improvised shields.

My point being that for any weak sauce example in SW, its match can usually be found somewhere in the archives of ST. Draw a line in the past, or watch as both sink to lower capabilities (or confirm old suspicions of lower capabilities, depending how you look at it), either way I personally still find the debate to be debatable.

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Re: Oberth-class Starship vs. Disney-canon ISD

Post by 2046 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:38 am

The view that both sides have weak examples and may thus be even is a different way of looking at it than I would prefer. It is the opposite of the "feat" system (where the highest or most energetic feat wins), which I also disapprove of since it rewards wanking each example as hard as one can.

I'd rather find the *most consistent* values (that hopefully exist near the median of highs and lows) and go from there. That way of doing things seems the most reasonable to me.

Once done, though, the ISD is a paper tiger.

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Re: Oberth-class Starship vs. Disney-canon ISD

Post by sonofccn » Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:24 am

Darth Spock" wrote:I dunno, Poe's attack kinda reminds me of THIS.
Heh. Yikes that's bad. XD
2046 wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:38 am
The view that both sides have weak examples and may thus be even is a different way of looking at it than I would prefer. It is the opposite of the "feat" system (where the highest or most energetic feat wins), which I also disapprove of since it rewards wanking each example as hard as one can.

I'd rather find the *most consistent* values (that hopefully exist near the median of highs and lows) and go from there. That way of doing things seems the most reasonable to me.

Once done, though, the ISD is a paper tiger.
I certainly agree with trying to find the most consistent values and that's far better than the alternative of highest feat wins. Through admittedly with any franchise that goes on far as long as Trek or Wars has that can be easier said then done. And there's still issue with is determining what is "consistent" in the first place. Or at least that's been my experience.

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