While skimming Star Wars Scripts...

[Lucky]

Episode 4

INT. MILLENNIUM FALCON - CENTRAL HOLD AREA
Luke, saddened by the loss of Obi-Wan Kenobi, stares off blankly as the robots look on. Leia puts a blanket around him protectively, and Luke turns and looks up at her. She sits down beside him.

INT. MILLENNIUM FALCON - COCKPIT
Solo spots approaching enemy ships.

HAN(to Chewie): We're coming up on the sentry ships. Hold 'em off! Angle the deflector shields while I charge up the main guns!

Han has to charge up the main guns on the Millennium Falcon, and that means their output is limited by the storage capacity and recharge rate of what ever Han is charging rather. This makes the Falcon's reactor output irrelevant when determining the Falcon's maximum firepower.

This type of setup is likely to be common, and is actually used in the real world.

INT. DEATH STAR - BLAST CHAMBER

VADER: Commence primary ignition.

A button is pressed which switches on a panel of lights. A hooded Imperial soldier reaches overhead and pulls a lever. Another lever is pulled. Vader reaches for still another lever and a bank of lights on a panel and wall light up. A huge beam of light emanates from within a cone-shaped area and converges into a single laser beam out toward Alderaan. The small green planet of Alderaan is blown into space dust.

If there is a primary ignition, then there must be more then one ignition, why, what do they do?

Blasts from the stormtroopers' laser guns explode nearby reminding them of the oncoming danger. Luke fires back at the advancing troops. Leia reaches over and hits a switch that pops the hatch door shut with a resounding boom, leaving them precariously perched on a short piece of bridge overhang. Laserfire from the troopers continues to hit the steel door.

Hatch doors on the Death Star were made of steel. Is steel stated to be used on any other parts of the Death Star in the novelization?

Artoo punches his claw arm into the computer socket and the vast Imperial brain network comes to life, feeding information to the little robot. After a few moments, he beeps something.

THREEPIO: He says he's found the main computer to power the tractor beam that's holding the ship here. He'll try to make the precise location appear on the monitor.

The computer monitor flashes readouts.

THREEPIO: The tractor beam is coupled to the main reactor in seven locations. A power loss at one of the terminals will allow the ship to leave.

WTF, the tractor beam that dragged in the Falcon needs to be linked to the main reactor in 7 places to work! Doesn't kind of put a crimp in many firepower claims?


If there is a main reactor there must be at least one other reactor powering it. This makes any calculation that assumes one reactor incorrect.

DODONNA: The approach will not be easy. You are required to maneuver straight down this trench and skim the surface to this point. The target area is only two meters wide. It's a small thermal exhaust port, right below the main port. The shaft leads directly to the reactor system. A precise hit will start a chain reaction which should destroy the station.

What is carrying away the waste heat? There must be a huge jet of matter in order to keep the main reactor cool.

If nothing is coming out of the exhaust port then the main reactor can't be producing much waste heat, but then why have an open exhaust port?


Episode 5

INT. CLOUD CITY - DINING ROOM

The mighty doors to the dining room slide open and the group enters the dining room. At the far end of a huge banquet table sits Darth Vader. Standing at his side and slightly behind him is Boba Fett, the bounty hunter.

Faster than the wink of an eye, Han draws his blaster and pops off a couple of shots directly at Vader. The Dark Lord quickly raises his hand, deflecting the bolts into one of the side walls, where they explode harmlessly. Just as quickly, Han's weapon zips into Vader's hand. The evil presence calmly places the gun on the table in front of him.

Does not seem canon, but interesting none the less.

This is interesting as it would imply that Vader was meant to simply deflected the blaster bolts with his hand rather then absorb the energy lt is assumed by some.

INT. CLOUD CITY - CORRIDOR - DAY

As Luke and Artoo move carefully down a deserted corridor, they hear a group of people coming down a side hallway. Artoo lets out an excited series of beeps and whistles. Luke glares at the tiny droid, who stops in his tracks with a feeble squeak.

Boba Fett enters from a side hallway followed by two guards pushing the floating, encased body of Han Solo. Two stormtroopers, who follow, immediately spot Luke and open fire on him. The youth draws his weapon and blasts the two troopers before they can get off a second shot. The two guards whisk Han into another hallway as Fett lowers his arm and fires a deadly laser at Luke, which explodes to one side and tears up a huge chunk of wall.

Luke rushes to a side hallway, but by the time he reaches it, Fett, Han, and the guards are gone. A think metal door blocks the passage. Luke turns to see Leia, Chewie, Threepio, and Lando being herded down a second hallway by several other stormtroopers. Leia turns just in time to see Luke.

A thin metal door is suppose to contain a person armed with a lightsaber and a blaster, and yet the weapons can make large holes in the walls? Those walls must be rather fragile?

EXT. REBEL BASE ICE CAVE - ION CANNON
The giant ball-shaped ion cannon rotates into position and blasts two red energy beams skyward.

EXT. SPACE - HOTH - REBEL TRANSPORT
The Rebel transport and its escort race away from the white planet, closely followed by the two red energy beams.

As the Rebel transport races toward the waiting Imperial Star Destroyer, it is overtaken by the two scarlet energy bolts. The Imperial Star Destroyer is hit in the conning tower by the powerful bolts, which set up fiery explosions on its metal hull.

The big Star Destroyer veers, then spins wildly out of control. As the Imperial ship careers into deep space, the Rebel transport races away to safety.

Why aren't ion cannons like this mounted on ships? You could basically take out any ship with 1 or 2 shots.

EXT. DAGOBAH - BOG CLEARING - DUSK
The mist has dispersed a bit, but it is still a very gloomy-looking swamp.

Luke pulls an equipment box from the shore to the clearing. He ignites a little fusion furnace and warms his hands before it. Taking a power cable, he plugs it into Artoo's noselike socket.

LUKE: Ready for some power? Okay. Let's see now. Put that in there. There you go.

The droid whistles his appreciation. Luke then opens a container of processed food and sits before the thermal heater.

LUKE(sighs): Now all I have to do is find this Yoda... if he even exists.

So the thing that Luke uses to recharge R2-D2 is a fusion reactor, but it seems kind of big to not have a function when the X-Wing is working. Perhaps it is the X-Wings reactor and fuel?

Episode 6

131 EXT DEATH STAR

The Millennium Falcon leads a swerving bomb run through the immense superstructure of the half-built Death Star. The Rebel Star Cruisers outside continually bombard the huge station. And each direct hit is answered by resonating, chain-reaction explosions within the station itself.

So the Death Star 2 was half finished.

The X-wing heads for the top of the huge reactor and fires several proton torpedoes at the power regulator, causing a series of small explosions.

The Falcon heads for the main reactor, and when it is dangerously close, Lando fires the missiles, which shoot out of the Falcon with a powerful roar, and hit directly at the center of the main reactor.

He maneuvers the Falcon out of the winding superstructure just ahead of the continuing chain of explosions.

If the Falcon is firing on the main reactor and it is dangerously close how much does the Falcon get hit with?

51 EXT DAGOBAH SWAMP - X-WING

Luke wanders back to where his ship is sitting. Artoo beeps a greeting, but is ignored by his depressed master. Luke kneels down, begins to help Artoo with the ship, then stops and shakes his head dejectedly.

LUKE: I can't do it, Artoo. I can't go on alone.

BEN (OS): Yoda will always be with you.

Luke looks up to see the shimmering image of BEN KENOBI.

LUKE: Obi-Wan! Why didn't you tell me?

The ghost of Ben Kenobi approaches him through the swamp.

LUKE: You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father.

BEN: You father was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I have told you was true... from a certain point of view.

LUKE (turning away, derisive)
A certain point of view!

BEN: Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

Luke is unresponsive. Ben studies him in silence for a moment.

BEN: I don't blame you for being angry. If I was wrong in what I did, it certainly wouldn't have been for the first time. You see, what happened to your father was my fault.

Ben pauses sadly.

BEN: Anakin was a good friend.

Luke turns with interest at this. As Ben speaks, Luke settles on a stump, mesmerized. Artoo comes over to offer his comforting presence.

BEN: When I first knew him, your father was already a great pilot. But I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him. I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought that I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong. My pride has had terrible consequences for the galaxy.

Luke is entranced.

LUKE: There's still good in him.

BEN: I also thought he could be turned back to the good side. It couldn't be done. He is more machine now than man. Twisted and evil.

LUKE: I can't do it, Ben.

BEN: You cannot escape your destiny.

LUKE: I tried to stop him once. I couldn't do it.

BEN: Vader humbled you when first you met him, Luke... but that experience was part of your training. It taught you, among other things, the value of patience. Had you not been so impatient to defeat Vader then, you could have finished your training here with Yoda. You would have been prepared.

LUKE: But I had to help my friends.

BEN (grinning at Luke's indignation)
And did you help them? It was they who had to save you. You achieved little by rushing back prematurely, I fear.

LUKE (with sadness)
I found out Darth Vader was my father.

BEN: To be a Jedi, Luke, you must confront and then go beyond the dark side - the side your father couldn't get past. Impatience is the easiest door - for you, like your father. Only, your father was seduced by what he found on the other side of the door, and you have held firm. You're no longer so reckless now, Luke. You are strong and patient. And now, you must face Darth Vader again!

LUKE: I can't kill my own father.

BEN: Then the Emperor has already won. You were our only hope.

LUKE: Yoda spoke of another.

BEN: The other he spoke of is your twin sister.

LUKE: But I have no sister.

BEN: Hmm. To protect you both from the Emperor, you were hidden from your father when you were born. The Emperor knew, as I did, if Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him. That is the reason why your sister remains safely anonymous.

LUKE: Leia! Leia's my sister.

BEN: Your insight serves you well. Bury your feelings deep down, Luke. They do you credit. But they could be made to serve the Emperor.

Luke looks into the distance, trying to comprehend all this.

BEN (continuing his narrative)
When your father left, he didn't know your mother was pregnant. Your mother and I knew he would find out eventually, but we wanted to keep you both as safe as possible, for as long as possible. So I took you to live with my brother Owen on Tatooine... and your mother took Leia to live as the daughter of Senator Organa, on Alderaan.

Luke turns, and settles near Ben to hear the tale.

BEN (attempting to give solace with his words)
The Organa household was high-born and politically quite powerful in that system. Leia became a princess by virtue of lineage... no one knew she'd been adopted, of course. But it was a title without real power, since Alderaan had long been a democracy. Even so, the family continued to be politically powerful, and Leia, following in her foster father's path, became a senator as well. That's not all she became, of course... she became the leader of her cell in the Alliance against the corrupt Empire. And because she had diplomatic immunity, she was a vital link for getting information to the Rebel cause. That's what she was doing when her path crossed yours... for her foster parents had always told her to contact me on Tatooine, if her troubles became desperate.

Luke is overwhelmed by the truth, and is suddenly protective of his sister.

I'm sure that some of this is a lie, but most of it fits with what we see.

How would Bail hide the fact that Leia was adopted from everyone?

LANDO: Now lock onto the strongest power source. It should be the power generator.

So there are sevral power sources in the Death Star 2 just like the Death Star 1.

[SpacePaladin]

EXT. REBEL BASE ICE CAVE - ION CANNON
The giant ball-shaped ion cannon rotates into position and blasts two red energy beams skyward.

EXT. SPACE - HOTH - REBEL TRANSPORT
The Rebel transport and its escort race away from the white planet, closely followed by the two red energy beams.

As the Rebel transport races toward the waiting Imperial Star Destroyer, it is overtaken by the two scarlet energy bolts. The Imperial Star Destroyer is hit in the conning tower by the powerful bolts, which set up fiery explosions on its metal hull.

The big Star Destroyer veers, then spins wildly out of control. As the Imperial ship careers into deep space, the Rebel transport races away to safety.

Why aren't ion cannons like this mounted on ships? You could basically take out any ship with 1 or 2 shots.

I would assume the power requirements are beyond what most ships are capable of producing. It was likely being powered by the same generator that was powering the shield, and that could shrug off bombardment from at least 5 Star Destroyers and a Super Star Destroyer to the point where the Imperials didn't even bother.

[Darth Spock]

Episode 4

INT. MILLENNIUM FALCON - CENTRAL HOLD AREA
Luke, saddened by the loss of Obi-Wan Kenobi, stares off blankly as the robots look on. Leia puts a blanket around him protectively, and Luke turns and looks up at her. She sits down beside him.

INT. MILLENNIUM FALCON - COCKPIT
Solo spots approaching enemy ships.

HAN(to Chewie): We're coming up on the sentry ships. Hold 'em off! Angle the deflector shields while I charge up the main guns!

Han has to charge up the main guns on the Millennium Falcon, and that means their output is limited by the storage capacity and recharge rate of what ever Han is charging rather. This makes the Falcon's reactor output irrelevant when determining the Falcon's maximum firepower.

This type of setup is likely to be common, and is actually used in the real world.

Makes sense, and I believe it's corroborated by the SW:AotC novelization, and the fact that they distinguish turbo lasers from other classes of blasters/lasers. Unless we're supposed to think they're literally shooting plasma rerouted straight from the power core. Oh wait, wrong franchise, never mind.

INT. DEATH STAR - BLAST CHAMBER

VADER: Commence primary ignition.

A button is pressed which switches on a panel of lights. A hooded Imperial soldier reaches overhead and pulls a lever. Another lever is pulled. Vader reaches for still another lever and a bank of lights on a panel and wall light up. A huge beam of light emanates from within a cone-shaped area and converges into a single laser beam out toward Alderaan. The small green planet of Alderaan is blown into space dust.

If there is a primary ignition, then there must be more then one ignition, why, what do they do?

Maybe each of the eight tributaries is controlled separately, then fed into the primary where it is ultimately focused and directed at the target? Or perhaps they had the equipment all primed and ready, "cocked and loaded" so to speak, and the primary ignition is the techno speak for "drop the hammer," "light the fuse," "pull the trigger," "smoke 'em if ya got 'em"... skip that last one.
Thinking deeper, the word "ignition" is a bit odd, under the circumstances, especially if, as you point out, there is more than one "ignition." But that could simply be a matter of semantics. There are enough holdover words in use today with irrelevant roots. As I recall, a gun is "fired" because in its early days it literally required "touching off" with a flame. Closer to the example, the ignition to a car "ignites" a combustion engine, but electric cars can still have an "ignition" switch. The problem only gets exacerbated when twentieth century Earth linguistics are shoehorned into the distant setting of an advanced interstellar society.

Blasts from the stormtroopers' laser guns explode nearby reminding them of the oncoming danger. Luke fires back at the advancing troops. Leia reaches over and hits a switch that pops the hatch door shut with a resounding boom, leaving them precariously perched on a short piece of bridge overhang. Laserfire from the troopers continues to hit the steel door.

Hatch doors on the Death Star were made of steel. Is steel stated to be used on any other parts of the Death Star in the novelization?

Beats me, although I wouldn't be surprised, steel, or versions of steel, are referenced frequently enough IIRC.

Artoo punches his claw arm into the computer socket and the vast Imperial brain network comes to life, feeding information to the little robot. After a few moments, he beeps something.

THREEPIO: He says he's found the main computer to power the tractor beam that's holding the ship here. He'll try to make the precise location appear on the monitor.

The computer monitor flashes readouts.

THREEPIO: The tractor beam is coupled to the main reactor in seven locations. A power loss at one of the terminals will allow the ship to leave.

WTF, the tractor beam that dragged in the Falcon needs to be linked to the main reactor in 7 places to work! Doesn't kind of put a crimp in many firepower claims?

I never even thought about that, seven places... that does seem excessive. Well, no question, tractor beams in Star Wars (with that one exception) never did do anything really impressive, they typically are blocked, jammed, deflected, evaded or out of range. In general, they seem to need to cripple a target before they can reel it in. This tractor beam managed to overpower the Falcons engines at full throttle, but when Han put it in reverse they did slow down, as the increased distance between them and the TIE would indicate, so even this monster tractor "felt" the resistance of the Falcon's sub-light engines.
Still, the term "the tractor beam" could be a misnomer, and may more accurately be a "tractor beam system." Unless a single "beam" emitter dragged the Falcon in from that distance, glided it into the docking bay, and then gently set it down on the deck. Granted, the idea of such a larger system all being hooked into a single circuit, and that randomly disconnecting one of seven connection points is unlikely too, but, who knows? It's an interesting point all the same.

If there is a main reactor there must be at least one other reactor powering it. This makes any calculation that assumes one reactor incorrect.

I agree, there most certainly is more than one reactor, although the tractor beam in question may be hooked into the main reactor only. C-3PO was just being specific.

DODONNA: The approach will not be easy. You are required to maneuver straight down this trench and skim the surface to this point. The target area is only two meters wide. It's a small thermal exhaust port, right below the main port. The shaft leads directly to the reactor system. A precise hit will start a chain reaction which should destroy the station.

What is carrying away the waste heat? There must be a huge jet of matter in order to keep the main reactor cool.

If nothing is coming out of the exhaust port then the main reactor can't be producing much waste heat, but then why have an open exhaust port?

Good question, since they were preparing to blow up a planet, you can't exactly say they were running the reactor on low power. Still, who's to say there's nothing coming out? Just because we don't see exhaust doesn't mean it isn't there, besides, this is a "small thermal exhaust port, right below the main port." It's also possible that the reactor installed had better efficiency than the ones available roughly twenty years prior when the basic design was put together, but the old exhaust design held over, that sort of thing can happen.

Episode 5

INT. CLOUD CITY - DINING ROOM

The mighty doors to the dining room slide open and the group enters the dining room. At the far end of a huge banquet table sits Darth Vader. Standing at his side and slightly behind him is Boba Fett, the bounty hunter.

Faster than the wink of an eye, Han draws his blaster and pops off a couple of shots directly at Vader. The Dark Lord quickly raises his hand, deflecting the bolts into one of the side walls, where they explode harmlessly. Just as quickly, Han's weapon zips into Vader's hand. The evil presence calmly places the gun on the table in front of him.

Does not seem canon, but interesting none the less.

This is interesting as it would imply that Vader was meant to simply deflected the blaster bolts with his hand rather then absorb the energy lt is assumed by some.

Actually, I believe this is canon, right out of the film itself, scorch marks on the wall and everything... or did I misunderstand the thrust of your comment?

INT. CLOUD CITY - CORRIDOR - DAY

As Luke and Artoo move carefully down a deserted corridor, they hear a group of people coming down a side hallway. Artoo lets out an excited series of beeps and whistles. Luke glares at the tiny droid, who stops in his tracks with a feeble squeak.

Boba Fett enters from a side hallway followed by two guards pushing the floating, encased body of Han Solo. Two stormtroopers, who follow, immediately spot Luke and open fire on him. The youth draws his weapon and blasts the two troopers before they can get off a second shot. The two guards whisk Han into another hallway as Fett lowers his arm and fires a deadly laser at Luke, which explodes to one side and tears up a huge chunk of wall.

Luke rushes to a side hallway, but by the time he reaches it, Fett, Han, and the guards are gone. A think metal door blocks the passage. Luke turns to see Leia, Chewie, Threepio, and Lando being herded down a second hallway by several other stormtroopers. Leia turns just in time to see Luke.

A thin metal door is suppose to contain a person armed with a lightsaber and a blaster, and yet the weapons can make large holes in the walls? Those walls must be rather fragile?

A "think" metal door you say? Hmm. Open, Sezame! Bah, the door is too smart! Really, that typo could read "thick" as well as "thin." In fact, http://www.scifiscripts.com/scripts/esb_4th.txt reads almost the same as the imdb one, but says "thick."
As for fragile walls, surprisingly unsurprising:
http://www.wgal.com/news/turkey-hill-ex ... s/26474334
The walls are in your mind! That's why they make security mesh for installation behind drywall. That steel double locked door ain't worth jack if I can knock my way through your sheetrock! ;)

EXT. REBEL BASE ICE CAVE - ION CANNON
The giant ball-shaped ion cannon rotates into position and blasts two red energy beams skyward.

EXT. SPACE - HOTH - REBEL TRANSPORT
The Rebel transport and its escort race away from the white planet, closely followed by the two red energy beams.

As the Rebel transport races toward the waiting Imperial Star Destroyer, it is overtaken by the two scarlet energy bolts. The Imperial Star Destroyer is hit in the conning tower by the powerful bolts, which set up fiery explosions on its metal hull.

The big Star Destroyer veers, then spins wildly out of control. As the Imperial ship careers into deep space, the Rebel transport races away to safety.

Why aren't ion cannons like this mounted on ships? You could basically take out any ship with 1 or 2 shots.

I would assume the power requirements are beyond what most ships are capable of producing. It was likely being powered by the same generator that was powering the shield, and that could shrug off bombardment from at least 5 Star Destroyers and a Super Star Destroyer to the point where the Imperials didn't even bother.

That's exactly what the Malevolence was, ironically enough... and then some. Why exactly don't they still use them? Good question. Practicality could be an issue, as effective as the Malevolence was, once effective tactics were developed to deal with such a weapon, its value may not have matched the resources needed to construct and run it. Especially since, ultimately Palpatine was playing both sides, and likely felt Death Star tech more worth pursuing, and had the tech employed by the Malevolence buried, so that even if he didn't use it, no one else could either. It's also possible that the inevitable arms race that must have been taking place during the Clone Wars developed new defensive technologies which reduced the effect of such ion weaponry. Don't forget the Malevolence could take out a fleet with one massive burst, while the cumbersome, ground bound ion cannon on Hoth fired several concentrated shots to immobilize a single ISD. So as SpacePaladin said, the size, power requirements, and cost of mounting a huge ion cannon onto a ship just may not be feasible at that point in time.

EXT. DAGOBAH - BOG CLEARING - DUSK
The mist has dispersed a bit, but it is still a very gloomy-looking swamp.

Luke pulls an equipment box from the shore to the clearing. He ignites a little fusion furnace and warms his hands before it. Taking a power cable, he plugs it into Artoo's noselike socket.

LUKE: Ready for some power? Okay. Let's see now. Put that in there. There you go.

The droid whistles his appreciation. Luke then opens a container of processed food and sits before the thermal heater.

LUKE(sighs): Now all I have to do is find this Yoda... if he even exists.

So the thing that Luke uses to recharge R2-D2 is a fusion reactor, but it seems kind of big to not have a function when the X-Wing is working. Perhaps it is the X-Wings reactor and fuel?

Hmm, a good question. There's no real way to confirm that this is indeed the case, but it is a definite possibility.

Episode 6

131 EXT DEATH STAR

The Millennium Falcon leads a swerving bomb run through the immense superstructure of the half-built Death Star. The Rebel Star Cruisers outside continually bombard the huge station. And each direct hit is answered by resonating, chain-reaction explosions within the station itself.

So the Death Star 2 was half finished.

More or less. In this context, the statement doesn't exactly qualify as a hard status report, bound to be almost exactly at 50% completion, especially given the ambiguity of construction.

The X-wing heads for the top of the huge reactor and fires several proton torpedoes at the power regulator, causing a series of small explosions.

The Falcon heads for the main reactor, and when it is dangerously close, Lando fires the missiles, which shoot out of the Falcon with a powerful roar, and hit directly at the center of the main reactor.

He maneuvers the Falcon out of the winding superstructure just ahead of the continuing chain of explosions.

If the Falcon is firing on the main reactor and it is dangerously close how much does the Falcon get hit with?

What is it you're worried about it getting hit with? Radiation? That probably isn't a huge concern, the reactor is huge, but similarly designed hourglass shaped reactors are seen all the time, and people can typically walk right up to them half naked even, as in SW:CW S:2E:6 Weapons Factory, and other times in the Republic's cruiser's engine rooms in a number of episodes. I'd be more worried about literally crashing into the thing head on, or not having a good lead on the impending explosion that singes their rear.

51 EXT DAGOBAH SWAMP - X-WING

Luke wanders back to where his ship is sitting. Artoo beeps a greeting, but is ignored by his depressed master. Luke kneels down, begins to help Artoo with the ship, then stops and shakes his head dejectedly.

LUKE: I can't do it, Artoo. I can't go on alone.

BEN (OS): Yoda will always be with you.

Luke looks up to see the shimmering image of BEN KENOBI.

LUKE: Obi-Wan! Why didn't you tell me?

The ghost of Ben Kenobi approaches him through the swamp.

LUKE: You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father.

BEN: You father was seduced by the dark side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I have told you was true... from a certain point of view.

LUKE (turning away, derisive)
A certain point of view!

BEN: Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

Luke is unresponsive. Ben studies him in silence for a moment.

BEN: I don't blame you for being angry. If I was wrong in what I did, it certainly wouldn't have been for the first time. You see, what happened to your father was my fault.

Ben pauses sadly.

BEN: Anakin was a good friend.

Luke turns with interest at this. As Ben speaks, Luke settles on a stump, mesmerized. Artoo comes over to offer his comforting presence.

BEN: When I first knew him, your father was already a great pilot. But I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him. I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought that I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong. My pride has had terrible consequences for the galaxy.

Luke is entranced.

LUKE: There's still good in him.

BEN: I also thought he could be turned back to the good side. It couldn't be done. He is more machine now than man. Twisted and evil.

LUKE: I can't do it, Ben.

BEN: You cannot escape your destiny.

LUKE: I tried to stop him once. I couldn't do it.

BEN: Vader humbled you when first you met him, Luke... but that experience was part of your training. It taught you, among other things, the value of patience. Had you not been so impatient to defeat Vader then, you could have finished your training here with Yoda. You would have been prepared.

LUKE: But I had to help my friends.

BEN (grinning at Luke's indignation)
And did you help them? It was they who had to save you. You achieved little by rushing back prematurely, I fear.

LUKE (with sadness)
I found out Darth Vader was my father.

BEN: To be a Jedi, Luke, you must confront and then go beyond the dark side - the side your father couldn't get past. Impatience is the easiest door - for you, like your father. Only, your father was seduced by what he found on the other side of the door, and you have held firm. You're no longer so reckless now, Luke. You are strong and patient. And now, you must face Darth Vader again!

LUKE: I can't kill my own father.

BEN: Then the Emperor has already won. You were our only hope.

LUKE: Yoda spoke of another.

BEN: The other he spoke of is your twin sister.

LUKE: But I have no sister.

BEN: Hmm. To protect you both from the Emperor, you were hidden from your father when you were born. The Emperor knew, as I did, if Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him. That is the reason why your sister remains safely anonymous.

LUKE: Leia! Leia's my sister.

BEN: Your insight serves you well. Bury your feelings deep down, Luke. They do you credit. But they could be made to serve the Emperor.

Luke looks into the distance, trying to comprehend all this.

BEN (continuing his narrative)
When your father left, he didn't know your mother was pregnant. Your mother and I knew he would find out eventually, but we wanted to keep you both as safe as possible, for as long as possible. So I took you to live with my brother Owen on Tatooine... and your mother took Leia to live as the daughter of Senator Organa, on Alderaan.

Luke turns, and settles near Ben to hear the tale.

BEN (attempting to give solace with his words)
The Organa household was high-born and politically quite powerful in that system. Leia became a princess by virtue of lineage... no one knew she'd been adopted, of course. But it was a title without real power, since Alderaan had long been a democracy. Even so, the family continued to be politically powerful, and Leia, following in her foster father's path, became a senator as well. That's not all she became, of course... she became the leader of her cell in the Alliance against the corrupt Empire. And because she had diplomatic immunity, she was a vital link for getting information to the Rebel cause. That's what she was doing when her path crossed yours... for her foster parents had always told her to contact me on Tatooine, if her troubles became desperate.

Luke is overwhelmed by the truth, and is suddenly protective of his sister.

I'm sure that some of this is a lie, but most of it fits with what we see.

How would Bail hide the fact that Leia was adopted from everyone?

Well, Ben isn't known for his absolute forthrightness, and there is the guaranteed incorrect statement about Vader not knowing she was pregnant. As far as hiding Leia being adopted, I wouldn't think it necessary, Bail already said he and his wife were thinking of adopting in the movie. But, if they changed their minds, short of close friends and servants, it wouldn't necessarily be that hard. Somehow, I doubt there is an extremely active paparazzi on Alderaan, they could probably make it work.

LANDO: Now lock onto the strongest power source. It should be the power generator.

So there are sevral power sources in the Death Star 2 just like the Death Star 1.

Well, that statement says "the power generator." Other power readings showing up could be capacitors, power cells, or other high powered systems close by or with less insulation/shielding. How exactly do their sensors determine power sources anyway? Heat? EM emissions? But yeah, I agree, the second Death Star is bound to have multiple generators in it.

[Mr. Oragahn]

EXT. REBEL BASE ICE CAVE - ION CANNON
The giant ball-shaped ion cannon rotates into position and blasts two red energy beams skyward.

EXT. SPACE - HOTH - REBEL TRANSPORT
The Rebel transport and its escort race away from the white planet, closely followed by the two red energy beams.

As the Rebel transport races toward the waiting Imperial Star Destroyer, it is overtaken by the two scarlet energy bolts. The Imperial Star Destroyer is hit in the conning tower by the powerful bolts, which set up fiery explosions on its metal hull.

The big Star Destroyer veers, then spins wildly out of control. As the Imperial ship careers into deep space, the Rebel transport races away to safety.

Why aren't ion cannons like this mounted on ships? You could basically take out any ship with 1 or 2 shots.

I would assume the power requirements are beyond what most ships are capable of producing. It was likely being powered by the same generator that was powering the shield, and that could shrug off bombardment from at least 5 Star Destroyers and a Super Star Destroyer to the point where the Imperials didn't even bother.

If it could be mounted on ships and yet understood as being largely underpowered most of the time, this would mean such a weapon is designed with a huge tolerance and margin of progression. But that's hardly a smart design.
In general you precisely fine tune a design to fit its dedicated framework, sometimes with low margins for betterment after tweaking or altering some pieces of equipment, like on a car (imagining turbocharging an engine, the modifications aren't magistral, nor are the gains, although they're noticed).
Volume on the weapon itself may not provide much information. To use the car analogy again, you can find two different cars but roughly the same size, one with turbo V12 and the other with an engine that could provide hundreds of times less horsepower.
Of course the difference in cost would be a zero, but that wouldn't really explain it all.

So I'd also go with the super power generator and when you consider the one that powered the shield, which was gigabig, you could easily see why you wouldn't see that kind of baby on a Star Destroyer.

However, you'd easily expect that on a ship such as the Executor.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Episode 4

INT. MILLENNIUM FALCON - CENTRAL HOLD AREA
Luke, saddened by the loss of Obi-Wan Kenobi, stares off blankly as the robots look on. Leia puts a blanket around him protectively, and Luke turns and looks up at her. She sits down beside him.

INT. MILLENNIUM FALCON - COCKPIT
Solo spots approaching enemy ships.

HAN(to Chewie): We're coming up on the sentry ships. Hold 'em off! Angle the deflector shields while I charge up the main guns!

Han has to charge up the main guns on the Millennium Falcon, and that means their output is limited by the storage capacity and recharge rate of what ever Han is charging rather. This makes the Falcon's reactor output irrelevant when determining the Falcon's maximum firepower.

This type of setup is likely to be common, and is actually used in the real world.

Makes sense, and I believe it's corroborated by the SW:AotC novelization, and the fact that they distinguish turbo lasers from other classes of blasters/lasers. Unless we're supposed to think they're literally shooting plasma rerouted straight from the power core. Oh wait, wrong franchise, never mind.

Not sure what reference you have in mind for AOTC but that's indeed corroborated by the charging of the dual guns on the Slave-I.
The Eu was rife with references to power banks though, so this wasn't anything really new. Even Saxton, to his credit, made the Venator different because the power output could be directly delivered to the guns, which I suppose meant without any real loss of power because of some required more or less lengthy charging, or perhaps because the power conduits were just that damn good.

Blasts from the stormtroopers' laser guns explode nearby reminding them of the oncoming danger. Luke fires back at the advancing troops. Leia reaches over and hits a switch that pops the hatch door shut with a resounding boom, leaving them precariously perched on a short piece of bridge overhang. Laserfire from the troopers continues to hit the steel door.

Hatch doors on the Death Star were made of steel. Is steel stated to be used on any other parts of the Death Star in the novelization?

Beats me, although I wouldn't be surprised, steel, or versions of steel, are referenced frequently enough IIRC.

Well this largely supports the idea of even Stormtrooper carabines being unable to blast through a couple inches of steel. And, by the way, this whole movie scene would rather dispute the idea that Stormtroopers could easily blast a door off. Or perhaps they'd have tried. They had no way to know that the bridge on the other side of the door wasn't activated though.

Artoo punches his claw arm into the computer socket and the vast Imperial brain network comes to life, feeding information to the little robot. After a few moments, he beeps something.

THREEPIO: He says he's found the main computer to power the tractor beam that's holding the ship here. He'll try to make the precise location appear on the monitor.

The computer monitor flashes readouts.

THREEPIO: The tractor beam is coupled to the main reactor in seven locations. A power loss at one of the terminals will allow the ship to leave.

WTF, the tractor beam that dragged in the Falcon needs to be linked to the main reactor in 7 places to work! Doesn't kind of put a crimp in many firepower claims?

I never even thought about that, seven places... that does seem excessive. Well, no question, tractor beams in Star Wars (with that one exception) never did do anything really impressive, they typically are blocked, jammed, deflected, evaded or out of range. In general, they seem to need to cripple a target before they can reel it in. This tractor beam managed to overpower the Falcons engines at full throttle, but when Han put it in reverse they did slow down, as the increased distance between them and the TIE would indicate, so even this monster tractor "felt" the resistance of the Falcon's sub-light engines.
Still, the term "the tractor beam" could be a misnomer, and may more accurately be a "tractor beam system." Unless a single "beam" emitter dragged the Falcon in from that distance, glided it into the docking bay, and then gently set it down on the deck. Granted, the idea of such a larger system all being hooked into a single circuit, and that randomly disconnecting one of seven connection points is unlikely too, but, who knows? It's an interesting point all the same.

First of all, tractor beams are seldom used in the movies. They're even less confirmed.
Secondly, the one on the Death Star did its job and probably wasn't intended for such small targets, who knows?
Its power clearly was in its ability to still be focused and work over such long ranges. A quick eyeball would likely tell me a few thousand kilometers.
I could understand that for such a structure, the designers considered it necessary to run with all power access points activated, allowing the DS to tow massive objects perhaps, and would let technicians to dial the system down.

DODONNA: The approach will not be easy. You are required to maneuver straight down this trench and skim the surface to this point. The target area is only two meters wide. It's a small thermal exhaust port, right below the main port. The shaft leads directly to the reactor system. A precise hit will start a chain reaction which should destroy the station.

What is carrying away the waste heat? There must be a huge jet of matter in order to keep the main reactor cool.

Invisible particles? Perhaps the exhaust shaft is used only when there's a need to purge it or a surge of some sort, or when gathered power was superior to what was deemed necessary for some random operation.
It was probably nothing more than an auxiliary vent, as in theory, a lot of said energy should be rooted to main systems such as thrusters. They're probably sub-idling, seldom used either because we don't even see them on when the DS approaches Alderaan. The station most likely spends most of its time drifting.
When I tackled the Black Ice RPG supplement, I pointed out that this convoy ship had huge engines for its entire volume and yet was lumbering. Then I made a comparison with the DS and mused that its engines might be as small as those of a TIE fighter, respectively speaking.

If nothing is coming out of the exhaust port then the main reactor can't be producing much waste heat, but then why have an open exhaust port?

Unless it's more like a pressure valve and used only when needed.

LANDO: Now lock onto the strongest power source. It should be the power generator.

So there are sevral power sources in the Death Star 2 just like the Death Star 1.

Well, that statement says "the power generator." Other power readings showing up could be capacitors, power cells, or other high powered systems close by or with less insulation/shielding. How exactly do their sensors determine power sources anyway? Heat? EM emissions? But yeah, I agree, the second Death Star is bound to have multiple generators in it.

Might also be of a stretch but a power source could mean anything from where power comes, even if indirect.

[Lucky]

If it could be mounted on ships and yet understood as being largely underpowered most of the time, this would mean such a weapon is designed with a huge tolerance and margin of progression. But that's hardly a smart design.
In general you precisely fine tune a design to fit its dedicated framework, sometimes with low margins for betterment after tweaking or altering some pieces of equipment, like on a car (imagining turbocharging an engine, the modifications aren't magistral, nor are the gains, although they're noticed).
Volume on the weapon itself may not provide much information. To use the car analogy again, you can find two different cars but roughly the same size, one with turbo V12 and the other with an engine that could provide hundreds of times less horsepower.
Of course the difference in cost would be a zero, but that wouldn't really explain it all.

So I'd also go with the super power generator and when you consider the one that powered the shield, which was gigabig, you could easily see why you wouldn't see that kind of baby on a Star Destroyer.

However, you'd easily expect that on a ship such as the Executor.

1) If you removed the parasite craft and the related things, and you should be able to fit at least one ion cannon of the type used by the Rebels at Hoth and any extra power sources and fuel. Echo Base wasn't all the big.

2) Given the Executor was at least twice the length of the Malevolence you would expect it to be able to take on fleets by itself, but it appears to have been greatly under gunned.

First of all, tractor beams are seldom used in the movies. They're even less confirmed.

Imperial Star Destroyers mounting multiple tractor beams has been confirmed

[Lucky]

Makes sense, and I believe it's corroborated by the SW:AotC novelization, and the fact that they distinguish turbo lasers from other classes of blasters/lasers. Unless we're supposed to think they're literally shooting plasma rerouted straight from the power core. Oh wait, wrong franchise, never mind.

1) You're right, Slave-1 had a similar setup, but I like to have lots of data point.

2) The turbo part of turbolaser is actually explained in the New Hope script and possibly the novelization. The turbo part comes from the fact that turbolasers are each powered by its own turbine generator.

3) Star Trek actually uses capacitors or something similar in function in their phaser designs.

Maybe each of the eight tributaries is controlled separately, then fed into the primary where it is ultimately focused and directed at the target? Or perhaps they had the equipment all primed and ready, "cocked and loaded" so to speak, and the primary ignition is the techno speak for "drop the hammer," "light the fuse," "pull the trigger," "smoke 'em if ya got 'em"... skip that last one.
Thinking deeper, the word "ignition" is a bit odd, under the circumstances, especially if, as you point out, there is more than one "ignition." But that could simply be a matter of semantics. There are enough holdover words in use today with irrelevant roots. As I recall, a gun is "fired" because in its early days it literally required "touching off" with a flame. Closer to the example, the ignition to a car "ignites" a combustion engine, but electric cars can still have an "ignition" switch. The problem only gets exacerbated when twentieth century Earth linguistics are shoehorned into the distant setting of an advanced interstellar society.

Actually this kind of answers my question
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djZFHTa6TfA

Beats me, although I wouldn't be surprised, steel, or versions of steel, are referenced frequently enough IIRC.

I'm more interested in how the steel is described in the novelizations.

I never even thought about that, seven places... that does seem excessive. Well, no question, tractor beams in Star Wars (with that one exception) never did do anything really impressive, they typically are blocked, jammed, deflected, evaded or out of range. In general, they seem to need to cripple a target before they can reel it in. This tractor beam managed to overpower the Falcons engines at full throttle, but when Han put it in reverse they did slow down, as the increased distance between them and the TIE would indicate, so even this monster tractor "felt" the resistance of the Falcon's sub-light engines.

Still, the term "the tractor beam" could be a misnomer, and may more accurately be a "tractor beam system." Unless a single "beam" emitter dragged the Falcon in from that distance, glided it into the docking bay, and then gently set it down on the deck. Granted, the idea of such a larger system all being hooked into a single circuit, and that randomly disconnecting one of seven connection points is unlikely too, but, who knows? It's an interesting point all the same.

1) I was more thinking of the 7 possible points of failure, and that there was no redundancy.

One emitter shouldn't matter when stopping something small like the Falcon. They shouldn't even need full power.

2) If they need 7 power coupling to feed power to one system no matter the number of emitters, then they can't just shunt power where even and when ever they want on smaller craft unless they are dealing with far less power then was being fed to the tractor beam.

Good question, since they were preparing to blow up a planet, you can't exactly say they were running the reactor on low power. Still, who's to say there's nothing coming out? Just because we don't see exhaust doesn't mean it isn't there, besides, this is a "small thermal exhaust port, right below the main port." It's also possible that the reactor installed had better efficiency than the ones available roughly twenty years prior when the basic design was put together, but the old exhaust design held over, that sort of thing can happen.

`1) The target is the small thermal exhaust port that is stated to be just below the main port. There should be some rather noticeable exhaust coming out even if it the main port we are seeing, but there is nothing. I'm sure you've seen the ion engines on the ships, or a blow torch in real life.

2) There are no other signs of other exhaust ports in sight.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:The ... t_port.png

Actually, I believe this is canon, right out of the film itself, scorch marks on the wall and everything... or did I misunderstand the thrust of your comment?

I remember the bolts simply hitting Vader's hand and noting else, but it has been awhile.

A "think" metal door you say? Hmm. Open, Sezame! Bah, the door is too smart! Really, that typo could read "thick" as well as "thin." In fact, http://www.scifiscripts.com/scripts/esb_4th.txt reads almost the same as the imdb one, but says "thick."
As for fragile walls, surprisingly unsurprising:
http://www.wgal.com/news/turkey-hill-ex ... s/26474334
The walls are in your mind! That's why they make security mesh for installation behind drywall. That steel double locked door ain't worth jack if I can knock my way through your sheetrock! ;)

But the door is actually rather thin relatively speaking, and Luke has a lightsaber and heavy blaster. The fact that Luke doesn't try them is PIS/plot hole.

That's exactly what the Malevolence was, ironically enough... and then some. Why exactly don't they still use them? Good question. Practicality could be an issue, as effective as the Malevolence was, once effective tactics were developed to deal with such a weapon, its value may not have matched the resources needed to construct and run it.

The problem is that no tactics are ever created to counter something like the Malevolence, and with a few minor tweaks to the Malevolence and what had mission killed it would not work a second time. Simply using slightly different tactics would prevent a second loss through that method.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAEAwKcYBTE

Especially since, ultimately Palpatine was playing both sides, and likely felt Death Star tech more worth pursuing, and had the tech employed by the Malevolence buried, so that even if he didn't use it, no one else could either.

Death Stars are likely threatened by things like the Malevolence, but that doesn't explain Rebel tactics.

It's also possible that the inevitable arms race that must have been taking place during the Clone Wars developed new defensive technologies which reduced the effect of such ion weaponry. Don't forget the Malevolence could take out a fleet with one massive burst, while the cumbersome, ground bound ion cannon on Hoth fired several concentrated shots to immobilize a single ISD. So as SpacePaladin said, the size, power requirements, and cost of mounting a huge ion cannon onto a ship just may not be feasible at that point in time.

1) Imperial Star Destroyers mount 60 ion cannons and 60 heavy turbolasers.they. If ion cannons were easy to defend against then why have half your fire power be in ion cannons? There is almost no technological advancement in Star Wars

2) The ion cannon at Hoth was tiny enough to easily be mounted on the multitude of ships that exceed 1 kilometer in Star wars. A large percentage of ships in Star Wars are larger then all of Echo Base for crying out loud.

The Malevolence was about 5 to 10 kilometers long, and armed with an ion cannon intended to take out fleets with a single shot.
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2009 ... rofile.jpg

What is it you're worried about it getting hit with? Radiation? That probably isn't a huge concern, the reactor is huge, but similarly designed hourglass shaped reactors are seen all the time, and people can typically walk right up to them half naked even, as in SW:CW S:2E:6 Weapons Factory, and other times in the Republic's cruiser's engine rooms in a number of episodes. I'd be more worried about literally crashing into the thing head on, or not having a good lead on the impending explosion that singes their rear.

If the Falcon is dangerously close to the explosion then that would kind of put some upper limits on weapons and shields.

Well, that statement says "the power generator." Other power readings showing up could be capacitors, power cells, or other high powered systems close by or with less insulation/shielding. How exactly do their sensors determine power sources anyway? Heat? EM emissions? But yeah, I agree, the second Death Star is bound to have multiple generators in it.

Except Lando's statement can't be literal. There would logically be lots of generators working inside the half built Death Star 2 even if they were simply construction equipment.

[Lucky]

I would assume the power requirements are beyond what most ships are capable of producing. It was likely being powered by the same generator that was powering the shield, and that could shrug off bombardment from at least 5 Star Destroyers and a Super Star Destroyer to the point where the Imperials didn't even bother.

1) I think you are greatly underestimating the actual size of a number of ships in Star Wars, and how much empty space they have in them.
Republic Attack Cruiser
length: 1155 meters
Trade Federation Battleship
Length: 3356.9 meters
width: 3009 meters
height: 1028.77 meters
Imperial Star Destroyer
length: 1600 meters
While over estimating the size of Echo Base*, the main Power Generator, and the size of the Hoth Ion Cannon.

You could fit the majority if not all of Echo Base in the front half of a Republic Attack Cruiser. Being able to do this would have made many fleet battle easy wins for the Republic or Empire, or helped the Rebels even the odds at Endor even if they could only shoot twice per battle.

2) Didn't the Ion Cannon continue working even after the destruction of the main power generator?

3) We don't know the power requirement for shields nor the efficiencies, but I'd be willing to wager a much better then 1 to 1 ratio in favor of shields, and that you may be over estimating the effectiveness of the weapons. The base was falling apart simply because of At-At were walking near it.

*I'm not really trying to use Legends level data, but that map seems reasonable, and it's all I could find.

Really? where about in the video was this? To be honest, I've kind of wanted to see a "disintegrater" in action ever since Vader told Fett not to do it in ESB, but the kyber crystal is not what I had in mind...

1) the disappearing matter is generally seen towards the end of the fourth story reel. You get a good look at a B-1 that is standing very close to General Grievous just disappear when hit

2) The EBS quote may be referring to disruptors which have appeared in Rebels. I've never understood what makes them so bad that they are illegal.

[359]

2) The EBS quote may be referring to disruptors which have appeared in Rebels. I've never understood what makes them so bad that they are illegal.

It's for similar reasons that the Varon-T disruptor in Star Trek is illegal. They do horrible things to living beings.

[Mr. Oragahn]

If it could be mounted on ships and yet understood as being largely underpowered most of the time, this would mean such a weapon is designed with a huge tolerance and margin of progression. But that's hardly a smart design.
In general you precisely fine tune a design to fit its dedicated framework, sometimes with low margins for betterment after tweaking or altering some pieces of equipment, like on a car (imagining turbocharging an engine, the modifications aren't magistral, nor are the gains, although they're noticed).
Volume on the weapon itself may not provide much information. To use the car analogy again, you can find two different cars but roughly the same size, one with turbo V12 and the other with an engine that could provide hundreds of times less horsepower.
Of course the difference in cost would be a zero, but that wouldn't really explain it all.

So I'd also go with the super power generator and when you consider the one that powered the shield, which was gigabig, you could easily see why you wouldn't see that kind of baby on a Star Destroyer.

However, you'd easily expect that on a ship such as the Executor.

1) If you removed the parasite craft and the related things, and you should be able to fit at least one ion cannon of the type used by the Rebels at Hoth and any extra power sources and fuel. Echo Base wasn't all the big.

Parasite craft?
What do you mean?
I think the generator the base used was rather huge. And it was only confirmed powering the shield. We don't know for sure if the ion cannon didn't have its own super generator elsewhere, buried or whatever.
The fact that such a game changer isn't mounted on a Star Destroyer should provide great clues.

2) Given the Executor was at least twice the length of the Malevolence you would expect it to be able to take on fleets by itself, but it appears to have been greatly under gunned.

It's been most disappointing, indeed. It was more like a space station posing as a ship.
All symbolism, no efficiency.

Mind you, it wasn't exactly that massively greater than SDs. A flotilla of large Rebel ships and auxiliary suicidal bomb ships (which we know were present and used) could soften the defenses of the Executor.
It's just a pity that we didn't see the ship being pounded. Apparently, B-wings alone could dramatically level the battlefield by finishing or weakning Star Destroyers.

First of all, tractor beams are seldom used in the movies. They're even less confirmed.

Imperial Star Destroyers mounting multiple tractor beams has been confirmed

See underlined words.

[Darth Spock]

`1) The target is the small thermal exhaust port that is stated to be just below the main port. There should be some rather noticeable exhaust coming out even if it the main port we are seeing, but there is nothing. I'm sure you've seen the ion engines on the ships, or a blow torch in real life.

2) There are no other signs of other exhaust ports in sight.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:The ... t_port.png

1) In universe, the Twin Ion Engine (TIE) Fighter is conspicuously lacking any visible exhaust. Also, not all ion streams are in the visible spectrum. Besides, where was it said that the exhaust port spewed ions?

2) The phrase "right below the main port" is a rather vague term relative to a sphere in space more than 100 km in diameter. It could be a few, or hundreds, of meters away. Additionally, being "above" the secondary port on a spherical space station may put it "north" of the target, thus putting it to the side of the end of the trench run, a view we don't get a good look at.

Actually, I believe this is canon, right out of the film itself, scorch marks on the wall and everything... or did I misunderstand the thrust of your comment?

I remember the bolts simply hitting Vader's hand and noting else, but it has been awhile.

Well, I guess we don't really see bolts flying away from Vader, but the scorch marks are there, one by Landos head near the door, another just right of the center of the screen.
It's not great, but you can see it here: http://youtu.be/7BAaHGgdEJg?t=54s .

If the Falcon is dangerously close to the explosion then that would kind of put some upper limits on weapons and shields.

Yes, I suppose it would, but what is the energy of that explosion nipping the heels of the Falcon as it tears a massive space station apart with a few hundred kilometer diameter explosion?

[Darth Spock]

The problem is that no tactics are ever created to counter something like the Malevolence, and with a few minor tweaks to the Malevolence and what had mission killed it would not work a second time. Simply using slightly different tactics would prevent a second loss through that method.

As illogical as it is, fighters seem to pose a disproportionate threat to capital ships, and that doesn't seem about to change. That is a topic for another discussion. But as long as a squadron of fighters can threaten a single expensive target, while other capital ships keep their distance, such a design may simply become impractical. Remember Plo Koon's fleet was the last success of the Malevolence. As soon as the Republic knew precisely what they were dealing with, they quickly managed to destroy it. Of course they could get on a merry-go-round of counter-tactics and counter-measures, but at some point it probably just wasn't deemed practical to build any more. It's altogether possible the resources needed to build and run that monster could maintain a dozen more traditional vessels.

1) Imperial Star Destroyers mount 60 ion cannons and 60 heavy turbolasers.they. If ion cannons were easy to defend against then why have half your fire power be in ion cannons? There is almost no technological advancement in Star Wars

Huh? is than actually canon now? I remember when that stat was plastered on the back of toys. Well, even if it is, the ion cannon obviously isn't useless, or it wouldn't have worked on Hoth. The difference being how well it performs compared to the large Hoth cannon, versus how how ship mounted units stack up. I'm guessing an ion cannon with the effectiveness of the Malevolence or the Hoth example are either no longer possible, or totally impracticable for deployment on starships. As for no technological advancement in Star Wars, I think this is a prime example to the contrary. First a new and improved super weapon is developed, putting the Republic in a frenzy, new tactics and technology is developed to counter it, restoring the balance of power. The Clone Wars series is actually full of little references to new weapons and tactics, and it's little surprise after allegedly a thousand years with no full scale wars in the Republic.

2) The ion cannon at Hoth was tiny enough to easily be mounted on the multitude of ships that exceed 1 kilometer in Star wars. A large percentage of ships in Star Wars are larger then all of Echo Base for crying out loud.

While over estimating the size of Echo Base*, the main Power Generator, and the size of the Hoth Ion Cannon.

You could fit the majority if not all of Echo Base in the front half of a Republic Attack Cruiser. Being able to do this would have made many fleet battle easy wins for the Republic or Empire, or helped the Rebels even the odds at Endor even if they could only shoot twice per battle.

2) Didn't the Ion Cannon continue working even after the destruction of the main power generator?

3) We don't know the power requirement for shields nor the efficiencies, but I'd be willing to wager a much better then 1 to 1 ratio in favor of shields, and that you may be over estimating the effectiveness of the weapons. The base was falling apart simply because of At-At were walking near it.

*I'm not really trying to use Legends level data, but that map seems reasonable, and it's all I could find.

Is... is that from the ICS? Are we using that now? It is true the cannon itself, and according to that diagram, even the generator could fit on an ISD, but, what about fuel? For all we know, the Hoth ion cannon could could suck an ISD dry after a few shots. And how long does the effect last? Long enough for the rebels to slip by, long enough for the Malevolence to shred its disabled targets. But the crippling effect may require a high coordination of forces to take full advantage, before systems come back online.

Remember, even the Republic cruisers we saw hit by the Malevolence, who had no advance knowledge of the type of weapon they faced, still had life support, artificially gravity, lights, all the screens and readouts still functioned, the alarm was screaming, the doors worked, the life pods functioned, even the engines of one of the ships being destroyed was still glowing with power. Suffice it to say, the weapon killed everything important for their defense, but the weapon seems to work more as a "screw-the-major-power-systems-up" device than a complete "blackout" device.

I think the generator the base used was rather huge. And it was only confirmed powering the shield. We don't know for sure if the ion cannon didn't have its own super generator elsewhere, buried or whatever.
The fact that such a game changer isn't mounted on a Star Destroyer should provide great clues.

^^What he said. Ion weapons were nothing new to the Republic, they had just never seen anything of the scale of the Malevolence. There must be a logical reason they don't keep using an obvious game changer. As for fitting large guns on a ship, the Munificent class ship does have those very large prow guns, yet they fail to display any real advantage over any other guns. Beyond a certain ambiguous point, big honking guns just don't seem to offer a significant advantage over a barrage from smaller guns. I vote that such powerful weapons as the one on Hoth are too large and/or power hungry to be mounted on ships.
As for a ship like the Malevolence, even if defensive technology isn't responsible for greatly reducing the effectiveness of such a weapon, I'd guess they are too expensive for the Empire to use against the Rebel's hit and run guerrilla tactics, and too impractical for the rebels, which the Empire would hunt down relentlessly, just like the Malevolence. So much for striking from a hidden base.

[Mr. Oragahn]

As illogical as it is, fighters seem to pose a disproportionate threat to capital ships, and that doesn't seem about to change. That is a topic for another discussion.

We actually got such a topic, a few years ago. You might appreciate it and bump it with interesting thoughts.
I just need to find it first...

Huh? is than actually canon now? I remember when that stat was plastered on the back of toys. Well, even if it is, the ion cannon obviously isn't useless, or it wouldn't have worked on Hoth. The difference being how well it performs compared to the large Hoth cannon, versus how how ship mounted units stack up. I'm guessing an ion cannon with the effectiveness of the Malevolence or the Hoth example are either no longer possible, or totally impracticable for deployment on starships. As for no technological advancement in Star Wars, I think this is a prime example to the contrary. First a new and improved super weapon is developed, putting the Republic in a frenzy, new tactics and technology is developed to counter it, restoring the balance of power. The Clone Wars series is actually full of little references to new weapons and tactics, and it's little surprise after allegedly a thousand years with no full scale wars in the Republic.

I looks like the whole galaxy was more or less happy with their post scarcity tech. big money could be made without having to run an expensive R&D branch, and people had what they wanted in the Republic.
Outside of it, rules were harsh and rather low tech "third world" pundits kept making money in obscure ways.

Is... is that from the ICS? Are we using that now?

Old EU, the "Locations of the Worlds of the OT" book I think, to which Saxton contributed - basically all he touches smells wank, literally.
It was even worse when he'd directly write the stuff with his own dick.

As for fitting large guns on a ship, the Munificent class ship does have those very large prow guns, yet they fail to display any real advantage over any other guns.

The little we saw in the movies didn't explain much. The main liability of those large guns was that the entire ship had to be pointed at the target.
But in the first season of TCW CGI show, the first volley of those guns really took down the Venators fast.
I remember some other episode with the CIS "police officer" captain, which featured Munificients. Just like the very first episode wherein Yoda's ship is attacked, the Munificents used the inverted gun turrets on the underside of the front "prongs".
I do think these ships acted as sniper ships, rather nimble and not exactly meant to engage enemy crafts closely. Probably to be used with the C-shaped carrier ships which would provide the fighter cover.
It's just a pity that the droid fighters were worth zlitch. But asking Lucas for imbuing the enemy craft with a strong sense of dread was too much to ask for.
That's also why TESB worked so well: the enemy was actually good, convincing and winning.
Until the fucker returned with his teddy bears and turned it into a comedy. :)
I say that, but I loved the Ewoks as a kid and I still have fun watching ROTJ.
It's just that I wouldn't have minded him portraying the mooks as moderately competent and dangerous, not just glaring white targets to be taken down by rocks and wooden arrows.
...
Am I digressing?

Beyond a certain ambiguous point, big honking guns just don't seem to offer a significant advantage over a barrage from smaller guns.

OTOH, unless the designers are cretins, they wouldn't mount weapons which can't be aptly powered.

Now power isn't all. Range could also be gained. The ion cannon can shoot a target over thousands of kilometers!
The big guns on a Munificent might have a better firepower, but I'd also expect them to come with a serious advantage in range. Besides, it's totally possible that increasing the bolt's lifespan and coherency requires energy, just as much as it requires more energy to properly tune and constrain the beam for an even longer distance.
And let's not speak of even accelerating the beam to a speed that would make the shot relevant over long distance: accelerating the beam beyond the usual beam speed in space warfare would again be another source of power spending.

I vote that such powerful weapons as the one on Hoth are too large and/or power hungry to be mounted on ships.

That's what I'd go for.

As for a ship like the Malevolence, even if defensive technology isn't responsible for greatly reducing the effectiveness of such a weapon, I'd guess they are too expensive for the Empire to use against the Rebel's hit and run guerrilla tactics, and too impractical for the rebels, which the Empire would hunt down relentlessly, just like the Malevolence. So much for striking from a hidden base.

Technically, Rebels would probably favour spamming big carrier crafts with missiles.
Of course you'd expect long range missiles, since logically no craft could approach a large carrier without being shot down. But that's SW for you.
I also think that missiles are not cheap, especially for the Rebels.

[Darth Spock]

As illogical as it is, fighters seem to pose a disproportionate threat to capital ships, and that doesn't seem about to change. That is a topic for another discussion.

We actually got such a topic, a few years ago. You might appreciate it and bump it with interesting thoughts.
I just need to find it first...

Hmm sounds interesting, I'll have a look around for it too.

I looks like the whole galaxy was more or less happy with their post scarcity tech. big money could be made without having to run an expensive R&D branch, and people had what they wanted in the Republic.
Outside of it, rules were harsh and rather low tech "third world" pundits kept making money in obscure ways.

True that. In fact, I'd wager some of their technology, droids in particular, likely hampered other technological developments, what with apparently cheap and plentiful energy, and generations worth of cheap robotic slave labor to handle a variety of menial tasks. Why build an excavator when you can hand a droid a shovel?

Is... is that from the ICS? Are we using that now?

Old EU, the "Locations of the Worlds of the OT" book I think, to which Saxton contributed - basically all he touches smells wank, literally.
It was even worse when he'd directly write the stuff with his own dick.

Well, that puts a new spin on the centerfolds....

The little we saw in the movies didn't explain much. The main liability of those large guns was that the entire ship had to be pointed at the target.
But in the first season of TCW CGI show, the first volley of those guns really took down the Venators fast. I remember some other episode with the CIS "police officer" captain, which featured Munificients. Just like the very first episode wherein Yoda's ship is attacked, the Munificents used the inverted gun turrets on the underside of the front "prongs".
I do think these ships acted as sniper ships, rather nimble and not exactly meant to engage enemy crafts closely. Probably to be used with the C-shaped carrier ships which would provide the fighter cover.

I think the episode in question was Storm Over Ryloth, and it featured six Munificents firing all guns on a lone Venator near the end of the episode. The big guns may have made a difference, but with so many firing on a single target for near a full minute it's impossible to tell how much difference they played. As it is, it had taken considerable hull damage, but its defenses were either only just overcome, or were being pushed right to the edge of their capacity during the barrage, considering how quickly the Malevolence shredded truly defenseless Venators with its smaller but numerous guns.
This compared to the Clone Wars movie premiere wherein a Munificent and Venator sat side by side throwing ineffectual broadsides at each other for several minutes that we know, likely much longer, for the duration of the whole ground battle and after the plot moves us away. I do agree that such guns should offer superior range, but we never get a good example of this. Besides, observed weapon range is Star Wars is often impossibly short and horribly inconsistent at best.

It's just a pity that the droid fighters were worth zlitch. But asking Lucas for imbuing the enemy craft with a strong sense of dread was too much to ask for.
That's also why TESB worked so well: the enemy was actually good, convincing and winning.
Until the fucker returned with his teddy bears and turned it into a comedy. :)
I say that, but I loved the Ewoks as a kid and I still have fun watching ROTJ.
It's just that I wouldn't have minded him portraying the mooks as moderately competent and dangerous, not just glaring white targets to be taken down by rocks and wooden arrows.
...
Am I digressing?

Well, the taking of the Tantive IV and the off screen Echo Base battles are the only time storm troopers aren't plot-hobbled by battling screen stars. When I first saw the Endor fight, I passed it off as the expected result of a battle in a space fairytale. Later, I found it annoying. Later still, when I started looking more closely, the Imperial defeat didn't seem as stupid as I once thought. Of the "legion" I counted roughly 70 troops and 4 AT-ST walkers by the back door. The AT-AT, and likely the majority of the troops were either by the main entrance/landing pad, or inside.
After the initial Ewok surprise attack eliminated somewhere near a dozen Imperials, everyone scattered (stupid) while a few Imperials rushed back inside and slammed the door shut behind them (smart). Applying suspension of disbelief for a moment, I try to remember that the little people in probably uncomfortable suits and with likely even worse visibility than the troopers helmets, are supposed to represent a thriving indigenous race. One that appears to have an odd combination of stone age technology, but can build complex catapults and gliders (WTF?) and manage to quickly comprehend the basic function of Imperial vehicles and weapons.

All the while these naturally camouflaged, small targets, who yet likely are close to a German Shepard in weight, are engaging a vastly outnumbered force while in their own heavily wooded native environment. The real embarrassment was the overconfidence and impulsiveness of select Imperial commanders. If they were going to leave a portion of their troops out on their own, should should have stayed the course and kept the bloody door shut. Bye-bye rebel fleet, bye-bye planet side commandos, and bye-bye Ewoks once the important battle was over. But, now I'm the one who's digressing.

[Lucky]

1) In universe, the Twin Ion Engine (TIE) Fighter is conspicuously lacking any visible exhaust. Also, not all ion streams are in the visible spectrum. Besides, where was it said that the exhaust port spewed ions?

2) The phrase "right below the main port" is a rather vague term relative to a sphere in space more than 100 km in diameter. It could be a few, or hundreds, of meters away. Additionally, being "above" the secondary port on a spherical space station may put it "north" of the target, thus putting it to the side of the end of the trench run, a view we don't get a good look at.

Visible as in show up brightly on sensors, but given the thermal nature of the exhaust, we should likely see a jet of glowing hot gas.

As illogical as it is, fighters seem to pose a disproportionate threat to capital ships, and that doesn't seem about to change. That is a topic for another discussion. But as long as a squadron of fighters can threaten a single expensive target, while other capital ships keep their distance, such a design may simply become impractical. Remember Plo Koon's fleet was the last success of the Malevolence. As soon as the Republic knew precisely what they were dealing with, they quickly managed to destroy it. Of course they could get on a merry-go-round of counter-tactics and counter-measures, but at some point it probably just wasn't deemed practical to build any more. It's altogether possible the resources needed to build and run that monster could maintain a dozen more traditional vessels.

1) The only counter measures for dealing with the Malevolence that Republic could come up with was to mission kill it, and then maybe board it. Even after it lost its shields, a Republic fleet was too weak to stop it from escaping to dry dock for repairs and upgrades. You really don't have a viable strategy if you have to board the enemy ship and then set it to crash into a planet at full speed to take it out.

Make matters worse for the Republic, the Republic fighter technically failed to in their mission and only did so well do to poor tactics on the Malevolence's part. Grievous destroyed his own fighter scene , and his fighters appear to have been one of his main anti-fighter defenses.

2) Fighters taking out much larger ships isn't that hard to believe. Star Trek just arms small craft with full size photon torpedos for example, but I do find the T.I.E. disabling or outright destroying capitalships with their blasters disturbing.

B-Wings are purpose built to attack things like Star Destroyers.

Huh? is than actually canon now? I remember when that stat was plastered on the back of toys.

It's posted on what appears to be the official Star Wars: Rebels Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/starwarsrebels ... &sk=photos

The most relevant pictures seem to be character bios.

Well, even if it is, the ion cannon obviously isn't useless, or it wouldn't have worked on Hoth. The difference being how well it performs compared to the large Hoth cannon, versus how how ship mounted units stack up. I'm guessing an ion cannon with the effectiveness of the Malevolence or the Hoth example are either no longer possible, or totally impracticable for deployment on starships. As for no technological advancement in Star Wars, I think this is a prime example to the contrary. First a new and improved super weapon is developed, putting the Republic in a frenzy, new tactics and technology is developed to counter it, restoring the balance of power. The Clone Wars series is actually full of little references to new weapons and tactics, and it's little surprise after allegedly a thousand years with no full scale wars in the Republic.

1) The Malevolence never had new technology on it, but was just huge. Obi-Won specifically makes note of the fact that the Malevolence's size being an issue when he tries to destroy it even when it was disabled by Anakin's fighters.

2) I'm really not buying the whole too big to mount on a Star Destroyer argument as it appears that the model of generator that was used by the Rebels as the main power generators on Hoth was also used at Fort Anaxes.
https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hph ... e=553BFDF8

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2013 ... r-TESB.png

3) The extended range offered by the ion cannon used by the Rebels at Hoth should be a major boon in a fight.

IIs... is that from the ICS? Are we using that now? It is true the cannon itself, and according to that diagram, even the generator could fit on an ISD, but, what about fuel? For all we know, the Hoth ion cannon could could suck an ISD dry after a few shots. And how long does the effect last? Long enough for the rebels to slip by, long enough for the Malevolence to shred its disabled targets. But the crippling effect may require a high coordination of forces to take full advantage, before systems come back online.

1) There are actual several Star Wars ICS books, and the only ones anyone ever controversial were the Attack of the clones and Revenge of the Sith ICS, and even then it was only a fraction of the data in those books that anyone talked about.

2) I'm not sure where the map comes from, but it's Legends level canon now, but it is also the only map Echo Base I've ever been able to find.

3) Fuel rarely come into the foreground of most stories told be they fictional or real because fuel only matters if you don't have enough and can't get it, and refueling tends to be boring so the detail is left out.

We see the Falcon and X-Wings being fueled up repeatedly in the background, but where did Luke keep the fuel for his Fusion Reactor he used to charge R2-D2 on Dagobah, where did the Rebels keep the fuel for the main power generator at Echo Base, we don't know, but it's very likely the answer would be that the reactors/genewrators also act as fuel storage.

4) That is my point though, you can roughly fit all Echo Base in a Star Destroyer, and you certainly could fit Echo Base's main power generator and the Ion cannon in a Star Destroyer. The Rebels used ships to transport the power Generator and Ion Cannon in the first place, and the power generator seems to be a fairly common design.
https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hph ... e=553BFDF8

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2013 ... r-TESB.png

Remember, even the Republic cruisers we saw hit by the Malevolence, who had no advance knowledge of the type of weapon they faced, still had life support, artificially gravity, lights, all the screens and readouts still functioned, the alarm was screaming, the doors worked, the life pods functioned, even the engines of one of the ships being destroyed was still glowing with power. Suffice it to say, the weapon killed everything important for their defense, but the weapon seems to work more as a "screw-the-major-power-systems-up" device than a complete "blackout" device.

1) And the Star Destroyer hit by by the Ion Cannon at Hoth still had a lot of working systems, but was completely disabled like the Republic Attack Cruisers. It's not an all or nothing thing, but disabled and defenseless is disable and defenseless.

2) Still having gravity could be a mistake on the part of the animators or a financial choice.

^^What he said. Ion weapons were nothing new to the Republic, they had just never seen anything of the scale of the Malevolence. There must be a logical reason they don't keep using an obvious game changer. As for fitting large guns on a ship, the Munificent class ship does have those very large prow guns, yet they fail to display any real advantage over any other guns. Beyond a certain ambiguous point, big honking guns just don't seem to offer a significant advantage over a barrage from smaller guns. I vote that such powerful weapons as the one on Hoth are too large and/or power hungry to be mounted on ships.
As for a ship like the Malevolence, even if defensive technology isn't responsible for greatly reducing the effectiveness of such a weapon, I'd guess they are too expensive for the Empire to use against the Rebel's hit and run guerrilla tactics, and too impractical for the rebels, which the Empire would hunt down relentlessly, just like the Malevolence. So much for striking from a hidden base.

Logic doesn't need to enter into it. The Empire has a record of not properly arming its ships, or not arming their ships with the best weapons load they could. The first Death Star when it is shown that the surface guns can't target fighter scale craft. A second example is the fact that the Executor was greatly under powered for its size, and like the first Death Star lacked adequate anti-fighter guns and shielding. The Empire simply made mistakes when arming their ships, and this doesn't even scratch the idiocy that are AT-ST and AT-AT.

I blame the bean counters trying to save a credit.