Podrace time! Pick a Trek character for Boonta Eve Classic

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Airlocke_Jedi_Knight
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Re: Podrace time! Pick a Trek character for Boonta Eve Classic

Post by Airlocke_Jedi_Knight » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:22 pm

Praeothmin wrote:
Airlocke wrote:Their fighters certainly go faster than the pod racers, however, there is also more room t maneuver, thus more time to react.
In an aerial dogfight?
I think not.
Think of it as Jango's attack vs Obi-Wan, except without the asteroids, and in a gravity.
More room to maneuver, perhaps, but you still need to consider your engine trust while evading enemy fire, aerial buoyency (?), etc...
Pod racers only have to evade in 2 dimensions most of the time, while in a dogfight, you need to be mindful of 3 dimensions...
We can't tell for certain which was harder between the Boonta-eve classic and navigating the asteroid field. Is there even a way to calculate speed and distances, in the asteroid scene?
Really?
When did you see a rocky outcropping come out of the ground, under the Pod-racers?
In the Asteroid field, not only did Jango have to try and fry Obi-Wan while evading asteroids in front of him, he had to be mindful of incoming asteroids from 3 dimensions, not just two.
Also, I feel it necessary to point out that Obi-wan had a much harder time going through the asteroid field that Jango, because Jango was constantly trying to vape him. I don't even recall Jango having to make very many difficult maneuvers, though I could be misremembering, so I don't really think that is a valid example.
See my post above.
While Obi-wan was evading asteroids and Jango's fire, Jango was trying to hit an very maneuverable evading fighter-craft while evading asteroids himself.
You must be one heck of a Starfighter pilot if that didn't impress you... :)
Taught Wedge Antilles a thing or two. ;)



Anyway, since this isn't really my area of expertise, I'll have to step aside here. Not going to pretend to know the different mechanics of the two craft, nor the strategies involved to successfully pilot either of them.

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Re: Podrace time! Pick a Trek character for Boonta Eve Classic

Post by Mike DiCenso » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:12 pm

Another potential pilot for the race to consider is Jadzia Dax given that she has several lifetimes of experiance behind her and in the DS9 episode "Change of Heart", she pilots a runabout though a very dense and active asteroid field.
-Mike

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Re: Podrace time! Pick a Trek character for Boonta Eve Classic

Post by Airlocke_Jedi_Knight » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:23 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:Another potential pilot for the race to consider is Jadzia Dax given that she has several lifetimes of experiance behind her and in the DS9 episode "Change of Heart", she pilots a runabout though a very dense and active asteroid field.
-Mike
Oh, c'mon, given that the OP doesn't limit the scenario to just flying the craft(you must also make your own repairs an modifications), and that the character starts with little to know knowledge of the machinery involved, the only real option is Data.

In "Offspring" Data was described as moving his hands faster than the eye could track for several minutes, while trying to repair an android that he, himself, had made. He certainly has the best reflexes available, and with his ability to instantly grasp any concept brought before him, and to instantly copy any movements, he could learn how to maintain the craft rather easily.

Data is easily the best option.

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Re: Podrace time! Pick a Trek character for Boonta Eve Classic

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:58 am

Actually the dogfight in AOTC, in Geonosis' asteroid field, didn't happen at such hard speeds, and the asteroid field itself was rather calm, contrary to Hoth's.
Checking the Delta-7 Aethersprite coming out of the cavernous asteroid, it takes two frames at 25 fps to cover its own length.
The ship's 8 meters long.
So it came out at a speed of 100 m/s, or around 360 km/h, and that was when exiting the asteroid. He certainly didn't enter, nor fly through most of the asteroid's length at that speed.
Slave I came out even slower: using the shadow cast by the asteroid's edge onto the ship at it's about to come out, it takes three frames for light to go from partial illumination of the hull, to total disappearance of the asteroid's cast shadow.
Since the ship's height (when parked) is 7.8 m, that's 65 km/h.

Now, here's the maximum observed speed for the fastest podracers:
    • Image Image
      Image Image


They don't always move that fast, sure, but most of the time they're pretty close. Podracers, being generally 10 to 13 meters long more or less, often cover their own length or a bit more in one frame, which makes speeds around 900-1100 km/h.
There's that moment early in the race, when they enter that cavern and one pilot crashes into some rocky formation,. They're clearly going much faster than Obi-Wan and Jango did in the asteroid.

Meanwhile, Jango and Obi-Wan didn't have to zig zag that much like pilots did in the Boonta Eve's cavern. In AOTC, the ships are seen following lengthy curves, sometimes flying straight on without a single asteroid to bother them.
There wasn't much asteroid evasion going on actually. That's for Jango, because Obi-Wan doesn't count, since despite being the one under greater stress, he's a Jedi, and it would appear that most people would have been killed well before.

Even Han didn't seem to fly his ship at more than 200-300 km/h through most of the Hoth asteroid field, based on the asteroids cruising past the ship.
However, he came flying much much faster when grazing the big asteroid, but the field was rather clear, there. Still, looking at the MF's shadow, the ship covered 3 times its own length per frame, so around 2500 m/s, over that straight line.
He slammed the brakes when flying into the crater though.

That and the fact that the ship had shields and armor plates.
Podracers are just big engines, one pod and off you go!

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Re: Podrace time! Pick a Trek character for Boonta Eve Classic

Post by Mike DiCenso » Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:19 pm

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight wrote:
Mike DiCenso wrote:Another potential pilot for the race to consider is Jadzia Dax given that she has several lifetimes of experiance behind her and in the DS9 episode "Change of Heart", she pilots a runabout though a very dense and active asteroid field.
-Mike
Oh, c'mon, given that the OP doesn't limit the scenario to just flying the craft(you must also make your own repairs an modifications), and that the character starts with little to know knowledge of the machinery involved, the only real option is Data.

In "Offspring" Data was described as moving his hands faster than the eye could track for several minutes, while trying to repair an android that he, himself, had made. He certainly has the best reflexes available, and with his ability to instantly grasp any concept brought before him, and to instantly copy any movements, he could learn how to maintain the craft rather easily.

Data is easily the best option.

Data would be best put to use being a field mechanic along with Geordi. But Data, despite his relflexes, would not be a considered for piloting a pod given the status of droids in the SW universe, and that there would no doubt be an outcry against using a high-end droid to cheat with since in theory anyone could go buy or build a droid that could be capable enough to win the race. Or hell, they even could totally automate the pods themselves by just given them a controlling droid mind.
-Mike

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Re: Podrace time! Pick a Trek character for Boonta Eve Classic

Post by Mike DiCenso » Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:40 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote: They don't always move that fast, sure, but most of the time they're pretty close. Podracers, being generally 10 to 13 meters long more or less, often cover their own length or a bit more in one frame, which makes speeds around 900-1100 km/h.
There's that moment early in the race, when they enter that cavern and one pilot crashes into some rocky formation,.
If that's correct, those guys are pushing the approximate speed of sound barrier (at sea level) of 1,236 kilometers an hour. Can you nail down an average speed for the racers?
-Mike

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Re: Podrace time! Pick a Trek character for Boonta Eve Classic

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:23 pm

I noticed that, using the New Essential Guide to Vessels & Vehicles's schematic for Sebulba's F-Plug Mammoth podracer, but with the engine length value from the OS databank, 7.47 meters, I obtain an engine height of 4.08 meters, instead of 4.866 m by directly using the scale provided on the guide's schematic.
Oh we're still looking at more than 1000 km/h anyway.

The case of the podracer that crossed its own length in one frame was observed during the first lap, as the leading group entered the Notch (Ebe Crater, in the first half of the track).
It's a podracer with its engines forming a / \, but very flat actually, and each engine has two thrusters. The hull is blue, while engines are more bronze like.

The Mark IV Flat-Twin Turbojet is the most likely candidate, but the figures given on wookieepedia appear to be completely wrong. More than ten meters long? No way. For one, the engines are clearly shorter that many others, as you can see on this picture (first line position, far right in the distance).

The engines are a notch shorter than those of the Plug-F Mammoth, but the cables themselves are almost already stretched, contrary to Sebulba's podracer, which means the overall length of the Flat-Twin podracer is likely a tad shorter.

Using the OS' engine length figure for Sebulba's podracer, ported to the schematic this gives a stretched overall length of 14 m. The Flat-Twin is between 13-14 m then.
The sound barrier on land is at 1640 km/h.

Most official speeds seem to come from the video games.

@ Mike: I'll try to get one. They still move very fast in canyons (blurs, the podracer seemingly covering its length in two frames or less) when there's not too many zigzags on narrow paths.

EDIT: Here's the race.

About Data, if he's smart enough, he may just look like some weird guy with weird manners. But he does not look like a droid, so as long as he doesn't speak about what he is, it's good. Eventually, he has enough time before the race to study the culture and possibly understand the importance of a low profile.

EDIT: can't know my left from my right apparently (e.g. the picture of the podracers). :) Also corrected some typos.
Last edited by Mr. Oragahn on Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Podrace time! Pick a Trek character for Boonta Eve Classic

Post by Mike DiCenso » Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:20 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote: About Data, if he's smart enough, he may just look like some weird guy with weird manners. But he does not look like a droid, so as long as he doesn't speak about what he is, it's good. Eventually, he has enough time before the race to study the culture and possibly understand the importance of a low profile.
That assumes that his entry into the race may not be challenged in any way by officals or other racers, especially if they cannot identify him by species. More importantly, Data being what he is, he won't register as a biological lifeform. Should that happen, then expect someone to call shenanigans on the part of our heroes, and have the team disqualified for cheating.
-Mike

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Re: Podrace time! Pick a Trek character for Boonta Eve Classic

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:43 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote: About Data, if he's smart enough, he may just look like some weird guy with weird manners. But he does not look like a droid, so as long as he doesn't speak about what he is, it's good. Eventually, he has enough time before the race to study the culture and possibly understand the importance of a low profile.
That assumes that his entry into the race may not be challenged in any way by officals or other racers, especially if they cannot identify him by species. More importantly, Data being what he is, he won't register as a biological lifeform. Should that happen, then expect someone to call shenanigans on the part of our heroes, and have the team disqualified for cheating.
-Mike
Well, the OP was like:

"The character of your choice is moved to Tatooine by a ROB, and told that he/she/it has to win to return to Trekverse. The ROB allows your character to pick a podracer from TPM, and obtain an exact copy of it. People won't be bothered."

Anyway, with Data out, who would you choose?
I like the idea of Spock, although he better has to show he has pointy ears, otherwise some people will be much more suspicious about his human appearance than Data's and his sick-coloured skin.

Rather offtopic: I wonder what a Vulcan podracer would look like.

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