Yes, I stepped down

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Jedi Master Spock
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Yes, I stepped down

Post by Jedi Master Spock » Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:55 am

Some time ago, I stated that I disagreed with the consensus of the community on the question of how to conduct the affairs of this board, and that I was stepping down:
I will still host the website, update the board software, periodically delete spambots, and other necessary administrative tasks that the moderators cannot do, but I'm done trying to enforce a code that the community has stopped believing in. I am therefore walking away from my position as a court of last appeal and away from the helm of this ship.
In spite of this, however, I am still receiving appeals. SWST has asked to be allowed a venue where he and Mike can both present their cases before me. Mojo has asked for a relative's account to be unbanned. And Mike has even said:
Mike DiCenso wrote:But the matter is now in JMS' hands. He can reverse the ban as he has done in the past for others, notably SWST, or he may chose to enforce it, and or even extend it.
I'd like to make it clear that I have stepped away from making decisions on how to run the board. I'm not interested as serving as a court of last appeal anymore, not when the community disagrees with me on how the board should be run.

It is entirely up to you, here on this board, to decide how to run things. At the moment, everything has been left in Mike DiCenso's hands, since Praeothmin decided to turn in his badge right before I did.

If you want there to be anything else beyond that, you need to have a discussion about that, here and now; and it's probably well past due that you have a conversation about the board rules, enforcement policies, and so on.

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Re: Yes, I stepped down

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:27 am

That presents a difficult problem as there is no second or third party to take up disputed issues with.
-Mike

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Re: Yes, I stepped down

Post by Praeothmin » Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:36 pm

Well, things have cooled down with the SWST's ban, but while I still no longer want to be Moderator, I am willing to act as a "balancing" vote, if you will...
If someone feels Mike's decision is unwarranted, I would be willing to look at their evidence, and ask Mike about it...
Then a concerted vote could be obtained...

But with Mike retaining the last decision...
I would only be like a Lawyer...

Or something like that...

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Re: Yes, I stepped down

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:08 pm

Oh shi...

Well, then I guess we could try democracy?
Like, for banning some member, we vote, and only members with a certain minimal amount of posts can vote. I'd say 150~200 posts at the very least : newer members can voice their opinion and try to make their point clear in order to influence the vote of the elders. :D

Looking at the members section, the limit of 150~200 posts per voting member would allow for 35~40 members with a right to vote, more than what we can count in active members alone anyway, so that's rather fair enough.
That said, we could push the limit up to member states which are recognized by the board system: Jedi Knight, Starship Captain, etc. The higher up we go, the more we're looking at a senate and then a narrow council.
We'd still need some moderators beforehand, as I believe the voting would only for for crucial moderation of behaviour, like long bans.

Or maybe it's gonna be a huge mess, with endless talking. However, it's a small community, so that's a good terrain for democracy.
...

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Re: Yes, I stepped down

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:13 pm

Praeothmin wrote:Well, things have cooled down with the SWST's ban, but while I still no longer want to be Moderator, I am willing to act as a "balancing" vote, if you will...
If someone feels Mike's decision is unwarranted, I would be willing to look at their evidence, and ask Mike about it...
Then a concerted vote could be obtained...

But with Mike retaining the last decision...
I would only be like a Lawyer...

Or something like that...
Interesting as well, as it could show how the board is pleased, or not, with the final judge's decision.
Perhaps a certain percentage would automatically "shortcut" the final say by the moderator(s)? Like, I don't know, 80% ... just throwing a number here -- we're more than capable of judging each other, more than in real life, and the consequences aren't the same either, and there's no need to be such a high cornerstone of moral judgment or know a whole codex of laws before being given the right to pass a final judgment.

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Re: Yes, I stepped down

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:13 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:Oh shi...

Well, then I guess we could try democracy?
Like, for banning some member, we vote, and only members with a certain minimal amount of posts can vote. I'd say 150~200 posts at the very least : newer members can voice their opinion and try to make their point clear in order to influence the vote of the elders. :D

Looking at the members section, the limit of 150~200 posts per voting member would allow for 35~40 members with a right to vote, more than what we can count in active members alone anyway, so that's rather fair enough.
That said, we could push the limit up to member states which are recognized by the board system: Jedi Knight, Starship Captain, etc. The higher up we go, the more we're looking at a senate and then a narrow council.
We'd still need some moderators beforehand, as I believe the voting would only for for crucial moderation of behaviour, like long bans.

Or maybe it's gonna be a huge mess, with endless talking. However, it's a small community, so that's a good terrain for democracy.
...

Didn't SDN have a "Senate" or something like that? And what's to prevent "mob justice"?
-Mike

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Re: Yes, I stepped down

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:14 pm

Praeothmin wrote:Well, things have cooled down with the SWST's ban, but while I still no longer want to be Moderator, I am willing to act as a "balancing" vote, if you will...
If someone feels Mike's decision is unwarranted, I would be willing to look at their evidence, and ask Mike about it...
Then a concerted vote could be obtained...

But with Mike retaining the last decision...
I would only be like a Lawyer...

Or something like that...
That sounds awfully like... a moderator.
-Mike

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Re: Yes, I stepped down

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:33 am

Mike DiCenso wrote: Didn't SDN have a "Senate" or something like that? And what's to prevent "mob justice"?
-Mike
1. Democracy is mob justice.
2. JMS stepped down precisely because the "mob" didn't like the way certain trouble makers were (not) handled. Having the local populace vote in some fashion would be the perfectly logical and next evolutionary phase of this phenomenon.

I must say, this whole affair is feeling terribly awkward.

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Khas
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Re: Yes, I stepped down

Post by Khas » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:35 am

That's putting it mildly.

Also, it's not that I don't want to adhere to the code, it's just that SWST was a very unique case, something I really hadn't seen before.

And as for ranks, I say we need "Fleet Admiral" as one above "Jedi Master". :)

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Re: Yes, I stepped down

Post by sonofccn » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:04 pm

@JMS
Again sorry to hear this but I understand.

@ everyone else

First and foremost I do think whatever the arragment it is vital that we have consistency with the rules clearly defined along with punishments as well as proper channels to amend should they prove inadequate again. Or well that's my two cents on the matter.

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Re: Yes, I stepped down

Post by General Donner » Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:42 pm

I appear to have missed entirely a crucial stage in the development of this board. Running a quick search and skimming some threads, no doubt getting only part of the picture, I'm very surprised. I certainly hadn't expected this kind of fallout from the STSW affair. Therefore, what I write below may be somewhat belated and off-topic. Nevertheless, I'd like to say:

JMS, while I obviously respect your decision, I nevertheless find it most regrettable. All the more so if you now feel the board is no longer enjoyable and are thus stepping out of discussions as well. Personally, I've always found your contributions the most interesting material posted here -- regardless, almost entirely, of the topic they've covered. I won't be exaggerating very much if I say they were the main reason why my interest in sci-fi debating was renewed, after I grew disillusioned with SDN-style analysis. Between the likes of SB or SDN, your brand of reasoned and informative debating, as encouraged on this board, has been an important example that higher standards are both possible and desirable.

To me, it never looked like the experiment failed. At all. Quite the opposite, rather.

I hope, therefore, that you won't absent yourself from the board. Though obviously, it's entirely your call to make in the end.


As for any decisions on how the board should be run in the interim, until the time when (and if) JMS wants to return to play a more active part as our administrator: I'm still a relative newbie, and more of a part-timer than a regular here, so don't feel I should be one to make or suggest them. I'll leave such discussions to our more senior members.

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Re: Yes, I stepped down

Post by Mike DiCenso » Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:08 am

General Donner, thank you for that insightful commentary above. I would actively encourage you to make suggestions, being the newcomer that you are, your reasonable observations and information have been a delight, and a positive reminder that the Versus debates do not have to be about vitrol and dishonesty. It's a refreshing change of pace considering some of the Warsie debaters past and present that we've had to deal with.

So if you have an ideas, share them, and help us keep this board the way that you like it. It's also the fresh blood that keeps us from settling into groupthink, and from degenerating into the kind of place that SDN and SBC have become.
-Mike

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Mr. Oragahn
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Re: Yes, I stepped down

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:58 pm

I may be extrapolating but I think that JMS may be experiencing some changes or issues in his own personal life. You don't start a whole website and after that even decide to run a forum that proves to be worthwhile, only to step down so violently and not even post anymore, like if nothing was to be said on any kind of topic you once enjoyed.
It does look like the after effect of depression or/and sadness more than anything else, really.

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Trinoya
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Re: Yes, I stepped down

Post by Trinoya » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:02 pm

My personal recommendation is that we add an additional moderator and we invite a pro-wars member (even from another board) to be one as well. One moderator can handle specifically appeals, while the other two handle general board problems.

As always I throw my hat into the whole thing for the appeals. As far as any suggestions go for a more pro-sw mod it's hard to say as I know there is a lot of bad blood. I could always ask around and see if anyone else was interested.

Still, getting a mod that was more clearly seated on the pro-sw side would help board image amongst other circles and prevent some of the cries to authority as well.



As for the rest: Sorry to hear all that JMS, I hope it's all working out okay for you though.

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Khas
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Re: Yes, I stepped down

Post by Khas » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:49 pm

For the Pro-Wars mod, I'd suggest General Donner, or The Dude, if he ever returns. As for the third mod, well, who can say, really?

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