Mr. Oragahn and Mojo's warning's fair?

[Mr. Oragahn]

Don't worry Breetai, SWST will continue ignoring anything that goes against his views, like the fact that most planets in SW are NOT like Coruscant, for example, Geonosis, Naboo, Tatooine, Hoth, Endor, Ryloth, Mustaphar, Dantooine, Korriban, Oberon, etc, etc...

Well then why doesn't he get banned once and for all?
I sent a detailed report of all his wrongdoings in this thread and all it ended with was me getting a warning for that "fool" thing. Geez.

[Mike DiCenso]

This is really the wrong thread to be asking that in, Oragahn. Had you not slipped up like that, SWST would be at 3 warnings, and you 0. If you have any further comments, take it up in the apporpriate Technical forum thread.
-Mike

[mojo]

he is at 3. unless jms decided to pull warnings off him again.

[Mr. Oragahn]

This is really the wrong thread to be asking that in, Oragahn. Had you not slipped up like that, SWST would be at 3 warnings, and you 0. If you have any further comments, take it up in the apporpriate Technical forum thread.
-Mike

I don't see why me insulting him lightly prevents you from acknowledging my complaint (which I posted before the post with the "fool" bit). I don't see why I should also post the same report in the Technical thread now. I'm not exactly sure what we must do now. It sounds like the report button has just become pointless.

[mojo]

oragahn, come on. don't tell me you don't recognize this tactic. mikey is doing the 'anti-mojo' (if spamming the board with lonely island lyrics can be called 'doing the mojo', then responding with nonsensical arguments about non-existent consequences of that spamming can be called 'doing the anti-mojo'. from here on, defined as 'pretending that an angry reaction to trolling is worse than the trolling itself, or that the angry reaction is in some way holding mike back from actually doing something about that trolling'.)
don't you remember when mike claimed that 'cleaning up my mess' which amounted to exactly nine posts somehow kept him busy FOR DAYS, and stopped him from doling out warnings to swst?

therefore, mike pretends that if it weren't for you calling swst a fool, then mike would have BROUGHT THE SMACK DOWN ON SWST. total bull, of course. come on, mike. that's not even clever.

[Mike DiCenso]

therefore, mike pretends that if it weren't for you calling swst a fool, then mike would have BROUGHT THE SMACK DOWN ON SWST. total bull, of course. come on, mike. that's not even clever

Wrong again, and very, very disappointing to see you try and foist off the responsibility for your actions onto someone else. You started your little troll fest right in the middle of when SWST was getting a series of warnings from me, and then I had to deal with YOU. Praeo wasn't available at the time, so it was left to me to "clean up your mess".

Also remember, as you yourself have pointed out here, when Praeo and I finally got enough warnings for a ban to go through (JMS upped the ban limit from 3 to 4), SWST appealed to JMS, and JMS removed several warnings and reversed the ban.

Also remember this. We are enforcing the rules as JMS has set them up. This is his board after all, and we couldn't immediately go after SWST because of that since there is nothing in the rules about being obstinate in a debate so long as you are polite. Where Praeo and I have nailed SWST on is when there is a clear violation of the dishonesty rule, and that takes a lot to push through since it is open to some interpretation.

So we're dealing with SWST, it's just going to be a while. In the mean time, ignore him, or just stand aside and don't let him take you down with him. In that respect, SWST is a far more effective and clever troll than you'll ever be.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

So when JMS was replying to SWST, you're saying he was knowingly being trolled?

[Mike DiCenso]

Which reply are you talking about?
-Mike

[mojo]

mike, pretending to be a hardass to me is not only the opposite of what you would be doing if you gave a fuck about the spirit of the rules you're ostensibly attempting to enforce, it proves the point i was making. you're still doing the anti-mojo. you're hitting the easy target. you know i don't give a flying fuck about warnings (i spent a pretty good deal of time begging for them when the system was first brought out) and you know that i openly admit to being a troll of a sort. the reason we're having this conversation in the first place is because you pulled the same exact crap on oragahn. given the choice between going after swst for continually trolling with malicious intent, something the entire board admits is happening at this point, or knocking oragahn over the head for losing his cool momentarily, you chose to go with oragahn. you knew he wouldn't put up much of a fight. on the other hand, dealing with swst is hard, which YOU openly admit. my point stands until you can stop proving it for me.

oh, also, don't be a hypocrite. how is it alright for you to warn oragahn for calling swst a fool, but somehow not worth a warning when you insult me? moderator, warn thyself!

lastly, i can't believe that you would bother to be disappointed with me for 'foisting' the responsibility for my actions on you while totally, again, missing the point. MIKE. IT WAS NINE COMMENTS. ON A FORUM WHICH IS LUCKY TO HAVE 25 COMMENTS POSTED PER DAY, HOW DID IT TAKE YOU DAYS TO 'CLEAN UP MY MESS' WHICH CONSISTED OF NINE COMMENTS? we're talking about ten minutes worth of work, here. it's idiocy to pretend any different. i told you that the first time, and you didn't bother to respond because it was clearly true. it's just as true now. give me a break.

[mojo]

i do take responsibility for that outburst, though. i admitted when asked that it was me before anyone had even asked jms for tracking ips or whatever. i didn't actually think there would be any doubt it was me in the first place. what i don't take responsibility for is some make-believe giant mess. it was a joke. even jms admitted, in his own way, that he recognized it as a joke when he referred to it as 'my antics'. it was ill-conceived, but the idea that anyone thought i meant harm to the forum is ridiculous.

because this is a topic, something that has always bothered me is that someone made some kind of comment WHILE I WAS BANNED AND COULDN'T DEFEND MYSELF that implied that i thought i was some kind of internet hero. two things:
1. idiocy. noone thinks that they are a hero for making a joke. i thought i was funny. does that count? nope. breetai went a little nuts making me out to be a martyr. i never claimed any such thing.
2. i have to assume that the whole idea came from breetai's comment that i was 'an hero to us all'. whoever that was - hi! welcome to the internet. we have this thing we call memes here. 'an hero' is an internet meme. when you say that someone is 'an hero to us all', that means they have just committed suicide. like for instance if someone pulled a prank that would very likely get them banned, you might say that person was 'an hero'.
nice to get that out of the way.

oragahn, i do apologize for derailing your point. honest to god, i originally was only trying to show that the same thing was happening again and that it was a thousand times more ridiculous considering that your infraction was absolutely microscopic in comparison to mine.

[Praeothmin]

One comment here:
As Mike said, we warned SWST many times, and banned him as well for being a dishonest debater, but every single time our decision has been reversed by JMS.
If you're unhappy about this, whine about it to him, not to us...

That being said, SWST is at 3 warnings right now, and you only have 1, Mr. O, so why the frustration?
I am trying to warn people for every insult I see, but debates where SWST participates do consist of pages upon pages of material, so we may indeed miss a few things...

mojo, I find some of your antics funny, others not, but you were banned because your antics were clearly violating board rules, while we had to build cases for SWST's warnings (cases which were mostly defeated by the Judge, might I remind you yet again)...

And I saw no insults in Mike's reply to you, only a comment that SWST trolls better than you do...
Proof: You've been banned a few times without being saved by JMS, while he was saved... ;)

[Mr. Oragahn]

Which reply are you talking about?
-Mike

I don't know the details of the story between you and mojo safe that at some point mojo snapped, but it took me quite some self control not to burst at the seams either considering the rather weird leeway SWST was given (despite warnings). It was really odd, since he was getting banned and then returned and instead of seeing his new infractions just making his case worse, it just seemed to be a total reboot or something, and encouraging him to do what he does best.

Now, what I mean is that you said that in light of obvious trolling...

So we're dealing with SWST, it's just going to be a while. In the mean time, ignore him, or just stand aside and don't let him take you down with him. In that respect, SWST is a far more effective and clever troll than you'll ever be.

Unless JMS is totally clueless, he does know SWST and his methods, so by replying to SWST, he knew he was being trolled, and not only tolerated that, but gave a reason for SWST to continue.
I think no one will judge JMS negatively for being, in this particular exceptional case, severe and intransigent towards SWST's misbehavior.
Oh sure, we'll lose a bit of activity, but most of it has been about most of the board reacting to SWST like a body reacts to an intruding organism. JMS' soft management here has turned a small and benign virus into something like AIDS or Ebola.

The rules of the board are clearly cleaved for people who do respect some fundamental in regards to proper and fair debate. This netiquette is completely busted by SWST.
Like in normal life, there's the normal law when everything goes right, and then there's the martial law, which is temporary. And then there's rendition and torture. Just kidding.

While there's no rule against obstinacy, there are against dishonest methods and ignorance of relevant posts, and I think it's clear that we've reached a certain point where a specialized kind of weapon needs to be drawn.

In the meantime, I will repost my report. >:[

SWST:
- rebooted the Dankayo debate in the ICS thread.
- ignored JMS' former post on page 14 about the base built next to a volcano. JMS had cited a post of mine back then. SWST had JMS totally repeat his position despite the fact that in his older post, he had already been replying to SWST.
clicky.
- doesn't substantiate most of his points at all.
- doesn't read posts (or is really dumb).
- admitted that he simply didn't read the 12 first pages of the BDZ thread (despite the fact that mods were fusing threads into the BDZ before page 12).
- keeps baiting me with red herrings about Star Trek in threads which are purely Star Wars centric. I told him to stop that many times, and he continues to do so.

Seriously, if that shit keeps going on, I'll flame mods so hard that he'll have no choice but to permaban me instead.

In the end, Mojo's mojo is absolutely negligible in light of the crap SWST pulls.
What? Someone is afraid of what SDNers may think one day? I'd tell you, if they read this, they're probably already laughing their asses off.
SWST is no Kane Starkiller. KS met fierce opposition, but he was debating honestly enough. He just left because he realized his positions would just never win here (surely, the opposition here is nothing like the watered down opinions of SBC or the non-existent posturing of SDN's so called Trekkies).
SWST doesn't care about the positions of other people.
That's no debate. It's a farce, garbage.

And I saw no insults in Mike's reply to you, only a comment that SWST trolls better than you do...
Proof: You've been banned a few times without being saved by JMS, while he was saved... ;)

... I wouldn't call that a good thing. I'd rather keep Mojo than SWST.
As for the frustration, isn't this system a discussion board and a place to exchange opinions?
Ignoring SWST is fine and all --just as much as it's fine to ask people to ignore a disturbing dude sitting in the same small room and being a thousand times more obnoxious than the annoying orange you know-- but does that mean we just have to look elsewhere while a guy is openly trolling the whole place?
I was OK for ignoring him, but you guys literally gave him ammo and allowed him to restart this whole mess.
Now, asking members to ignore SWST is fine since we're hardly that cold blooded and we know it would cut him the attention he craves for, but feeding him at the same time doesn't strike me as particularly logical.
Either we all ignore him or we don't, don't you think?

Oh well, anyway, I will not bother. I thought that building the equivalent of a wall around SWST was the board's rather unique way of dealing with such issues, but obviously not all people are .

In the absolute, the "fool" related warning was right.
I'll resume the process of ignoring SWST then.
That said, if I ignore him, you mods will have to do the job you're supposed to do and read his posts (when he will obviously feel entitled to attack my opinions) and see what's wrong with them. Don't expect me to do your job.
You can't have your cake and eat it too after all.

[Admiral Breetai]

2. i have to assume that the whole idea came from breetai's comment that i was 'an hero to us all'. whoever that was - hi! welcome to the internet. we have this thing we call memes here. 'an hero' is an internet meme. when you say that someone is 'an hero to us all', that means they have just committed suicide. like for instance if someone pulled a prank that would very likely get them banned, you might say that person was 'an hero'.
nice to get that out of the way.
.

I did laugh at that, when they didn't realize I was kind of mocking you and then up and infracted me..despite me giving plenty of "not okay dude" posts before and after...it took an enormous amount of convincing mike that I wasn't goading you on..I guess he never heard of memes..but I never martyred you Mojo don't accuse me of such, what happened was JMS decided to essentially abuse the spirit of his own rules and completely unfairly bail SWST out which I said came off as though it validated your actions

I still maintain that his desire to bail out SWST for some convoluted reason protecting him from perceived "bullying' has done more harm than good

I do think your overblowing the issue with Mike a bit but both you and O hardly deserve an infraction especially for calling a fool a fool

let's be perfectly clear here and you can go ahead and infract me for this: SWST is a fucking idiot, he's a dumb emotionally crippled lying twit who basically discovered SDN and thought it'd be cool to charge in taking on the other side and "showing them up' he's an inexperienced amateur dabater who when forced to confront those who are vastly more experienced and skillful either runs away with his tail in between his legs in a complete display of absolute cowardice and if he does not do that he has the god damn nerve to lie his ass off ignore and just bullheaded repeating the same damn arguments and he does this because he has no fucking clue..the boy is completely incapable of forming his own conclusions and opinions...and when all of his puppetted nonsense gets torn apart he falls back on blatant trolling and hiding behind JMS and playing the vicim

Mike Dicenso and Jedi Master Spock: you are raping the spirit of your rules with your actions you are committing negligence that is harmful to the forum by punishing members like O for finally loosing it after you repeatedly fail in a catastrophic manner to deal with this you are absolutely guilty of the current condition of the forum.

You are both good posters and try your hardest to be fair moderators I applaud that I respect that. I have been on forums with abusive or biased moderators and I understand full well the alternative is far worse than what we have here..but understand this: protecting that little child isn't going to do anything to help this place nor is it in adherence with your rules

I'm not asking you to perma ban him like O let him be driven from here for good when he deserves it - but do not punish another member for getting tired of how much this pile of monkey crap gets away with stuff and finally snapping

edit I'll also add that Mike maybe should not be fully attacked here..the blame for his tragedy rests entirely on JMS..he is absolutely responsible for this bullshit and he needs to answer to that..instead of just ignoring people calling him out on it as he often does

oh and I'll add warning some one for calling some one a fool under the "insult" rule is really disturbing its so hypersensitive its like PC parody or something..I mean that is a weak insult...that's barely insulting..that's calling a monkey a monkey

[Mike DiCenso]

Just a point of order Breetai. It was Praeo that issued the warning to Mr. Oragahn, not me. The problem with the insults thing is that once you allow it, you open up a whole new can of worms. The other problem here is that we have to treat everyone the same, regardless. You break a rule, you get a "friendly" or "official" warning, and or a ban.

And believe me, I don't like any of this any more than you do. But I'm playing by the rules here because I don't want SWST to martyr himself on my watch. That's what I think this all is coming down to. Trolling to see if he gets a permaban so he can proclaim us all hypocrites.
-Mike

[Admiral Breetai]

you think we'll graduate from fool to my own rather unintelligent rude tirade above? I mean I'm sure we're all perfectly capable of keeping this place from turning into Jerry Springer

I'm not sure about the martyre bit boss, I think your ascribing either too much intelligence to SWST or too much hatred to the SDN/SB crowd the man is barely tolerated on spacebattles and if he does post on SDN I can't imagine they'd be so desperate as to actually feed a desperate little suck up like that, I think if you shut him down about the only person he'd have to complain to is himself

but you've been at this longer than me I'm sure you know what your doing it's just I also sort of see the legitimacy of O and Mojo's own ire