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At this point in time, I'd like to open a thread specifically to discuss how well things are going on the boards for or with our moderators. This topic has been coming up lately.

In what ways do you think Mike DiCenso and/or Praeothmin have done well? Do you think they should be wielding more or less power? Do you think they have been even-handed?

Do you think that I've done the right thing in overruling the SWST ban? Would you like to see me be more or less involved with supervising the board? Has the board become a better or worse environment for discussion since I handed day-to-day operations to our two security officers? Et cetera.

Mike and Praeothmin, I would particularly like your feedback.


Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:23 am
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Seems fine to me the only real issue is that they seem to lack the tools to deal with some issues (or the tools do not exist), the sockpuppet issue is one of these.


Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:30 am
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Kor_Dahar_Master wrote:
Seems fine to me the only real issue is that they seem to lack the tools to deal with some issues (or the tools do not exist), the sockpuppet issue is one of these.

Every time I've second-guessed Mike or Praeoth on a sockpuppet call (this has happened more often than any of you know, including either of them), we've eventually gotten information confirming the sockpuppet as a 100% certain sockpuppet. All the admin tools I have in my basket have been close to worthless, given that our problem posters here know how to find and use proxies.

The only thing I can do that might have any effect, really, is put up an entry barrier, which I've just done. New users will enter a moderation queue and will need to have their first few posts approved by a moderator.


Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:13 am
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I've noticed no issue between the moderator duties and their posting behavior. Mike got a little close once but that was already addressed by you in another thread.

I'm pleased with their moderation but I definitely believe that as the forum grows we will need specific moderators for different forums, it will allow much more focused control. We aren't at that point yet, but someday perhaps.

On a side note: Perhaps designate some one at that point to help filter out complaints on a moderator ruling, wouldn't want anyone to get swamped with that stuff.


Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:44 am
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i'll post this here as it seems to be off topic in the other thread


Jedi Master Spock wrote:
I reviewed his recent posting history quite carefully. He has laid out his case civilly with few recent exceptions, and I have no trouble believing that he was making arguments that he believed in, at least during the recent period I'm talking about. I could be wrong; but that's the call I'm making here.


civily? you call that bullheaded ignorance civil? you call repeatedly ignoring other peoples arguments and relentlessly spamming the same bullshit over and over civil? you call blatantly running from debates in a complete act of cowardice to avoid having to man up for his fuck ups civil? you call refusing to give proof while demanding an OCD level of it from the opposition civil?

you seem to think that as long as he does not call some one a name..he's being civil he's a danger and a threat to the stability of your small community, most of these guys no doubt yourself included being vets of many years of vs debating..are you seriously gonna put them through this small fries antics?

I can tell you something else Mith and Kor have made dedicated and civil rebuttals to the guy that have been ignored and trolled to the extent that they had to resort to insults..your staff then proceeded to flag them and not SWST simply put..sir that's bullshit they would never have flamed if it weren't for the guy using your civility laws a shield to hide behind while trolling

aside from them I've probably had the most success curtailing SWST I've demolished his arguments and reduced him to a jibbering wreck...every time he enters this thread he finds the time to cry about my style of replies..he meets when doing his usual wanton and uncorroborated dismissals of other peoples arguments and you know why? for two reasons..I don't put up with his crap at all and I'm willing to take an infraction if it means exposing the guy for what he is

DS recently got infracted for basically getting upset that SWST basically after having his arguments and all his valid points bulldozed through and completely and absolutely irrefutably debunked with no counter what so ever..PRETENDED NONE OF THAT HAPPENED and picked up right where he left off maintaining the same claims for christs sakes that alone merrits a ban

you infracted Darkstar..because he had put up with constant bullshit by this guy with no one bothering to do anything about it and lost his temper? thats nonsense absolute nonsense

the amount of times he's ran from myself and Mister O? to the extent that he flat out ignores us every time we post now? yeah that's called dedicated trolling


[
Jedi Master Spock wrote:
If he believes his own arguments, there's nothing dishonest about that. As far as this being good or bad for the board; I happen to be of the opinion our discussions here are much more productive when we don't all agree with each other and stay civil enough not to shout each other down.


so if I ignore multiple posts repeat constantly the same arguments lie and dodge proof post fan clips as evidence..and constantly play the victim and demand proof others already provided to achieve my goals it's okay so long as I believe in myself? no

see I agree disagreements and Warsies who can actually muster an argument that isn't asinine nor involve blatant dishonesty are much needed assets to this forum..it also wouldn't hurt to have more posters who could contribute to stuff ranging from lord of the rings..to anime..to politics..good posters and all sure that'd be sweet

SWSt does not fit this criteria..

Jedi Master Spock wrote:
If you like, Breetai, here is your mission: Prove to me that SWST is trolling; and I will act on it. Use quotes and links extensively to make your case. Imagine you are a prosecutor, and you must prove to the judge the guilt of the accused beyond a reasonable doubt. This will be much more fun for all of us than you deciding to imitate Mojo's tactics.


no, do you wanna know why? i'm not a god damn prosecutor that'd be preao..or mike I'm the guy who calls the cops (hitting the report button) after some one breaks into his house my job is to simply let you people know there be troll'n afoot in yar boards matey!! it's your job as a staff member to go and seek it out and punish it

to take it a step further Kor O Mith and hell fuck even Mojo provided massive proof of the guys trolling they listed quotes and brought links..and guess what? NOTHING HAPPENED!! when it did happen...some one who rarely is here rarely posts seems to have no clue what's happening on his own board decided that it was unjust..despite us dealing with this fool for months on end

I don't know you but every time I see you post it's always wisely and with information handy..you seem to be the embodiment of everything Darth Wong isn't but pretends he is...you've created for yourself a bastion of civility wisdom and peace in a sea of chaos amidst one of the most hotly contested viciously uncivil debate topics ever for that alone...you have my respect for that truly and my admiration...so please do not take my stance here as being a personal attack on you...I'm not trying to be insulting or vicious it's just I truly do not understand how you and to a lesser extent your staff can be so willing to endure this bullshit..and suffer us to do so and all for what? the only thing I can think of is maybe taking the moral highground to Wong and SDN...but at what cost?

you want me not to do what Mojo did? then don't ask me to do something others have tried dozens of times before and I tried right here in this very thread only to have it reversed...don't shit on your mods..when they finally actually do something about this mess when after months of them letting him get away with this nonsense because he simply wasn't "insulting any one"

Praeothmin wrote:
But Breetai, doing "the mojo" will not help anything, and if SWST really pisses you off, simply ignore him, as you were told many times...
The more people ignore him, the less of his inane argument we'll see...


NO! never yield to trolls! especially ones as relentless as this one especially when it's a board this small and closely knit..never concede never fall back never ignore them never stop hounding them even if it means taking them down with you, because the moment you do..you basically turn the keys over to them


Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:00 pm
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Admiral Breetai wrote:

civily? you call that bullheaded ignorance civil? you call repeatedly ignoring other peoples arguments and relentlessly spamming the same bullshit over and over civil? you call blatantly running from debates in a complete act of cowardice to avoid having to man up for his fuck ups civil? you call refusing to give proof while demanding an OCD level of it from the opposition civil?

you seem to think that as long as he does not call some one a name..he's being civil he's a danger and a threat to the stability of your small community, most of these guys no doubt yourself included being vets of many years of vs debating..are you seriously gonna put them through this small fries antics?

I can tell you something else Mith and Kor have made dedicated and civil rebuttals to the guy that have been ignored and trolled to the extent that they had to resort to insults..your staff then proceeded to flag them and not SWST simply put..sir that's bullshit they would never have flamed if it weren't for the guy using your civility laws a shield to hide behind while trolling



I can understand your frustration and am obviously no angel myself when it comes to my behaviour if some one pisses me off.

I will no longer indulge him when he switches to another topic or thread in hopes we forget about his older ones only for him to return to them after the page has turned to spew out the same crap.


Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:21 pm
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Kor_Dahar_Master wrote:
[

I can understand your frustration and am obviously no angel myself when it comes to my behaviour if some one pisses me off.

I will no longer indulge him when he switches to another topic or thread in hopes we forget about his older ones only for him to return to them after the page has turned to spew out the same crap.


and maybe your allot more enlightened then I am and taking this route is the better one..but from where I stand it seems like doing that is merely giving an inch and loosing a yard and doing it to some one who;s then going to be embolden by that and get worse


Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:50 pm
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Admiral Breetai wrote:

and maybe your allot more enlightened then I am and taking this route is the better one..


LOL doubtful, check out the Serafina thread...:).

Here are the highlights

Jedi Master Spock wrote:
Serafina has requested a full review of the events of the thread and made numerous private accusations of bigotry. I will therefore unravel and exhibit what happened regarding the exchange of insults in this thread.

1: And no prejudiced semi-octagenarian gardener is going to change that. Serafina, baiting Kor.
2 Say, are you a member of the family of blood? I better get my mobile phone then, and a fob watch. Serafina, baiting Kor.
3: I am not running from anything, your claim that a doctor you saw says you are a certain way is no more valid and likely less valid than the report from Zucker on his results. The real differance is that children are not practiced liars like you nor do they have access to the "transgender narrative" like you did. Kor, implying that Serafina lied to get a diagnosis.
4: Here, let me quote your original prejudiced drivel again: ... No, you prejudist. ... Again, you are just posting a drivel out of ignorance, hate and prejudice. Serafina needles Kor back, calling everything he has written "drivel" and saying that he hates transsexuals.
5: You do it here a lot so i see no reason why you would not do it elsewhere......a liar exposed is still a liar. Kor responds to this by fleshing out his accusation. As with Serafina's accusation of prejudice (lit: "before-judgment") there is substance to his saying that Serafina is a liar; however, it is the implications
6: Actually it clearly refers to me thinking you are emotionally unstable and cannot think rationally on the subject. ... This thread is full of evidence of what i and others consider your emotional instability regarding the subject. Kor follows this up by saying that Serafina is irrational on the subject at hand.
7: Your only source for that claim is your prejudice that transwomen are generally liars. Serafina generalizes Kor's claim about her in particular to transwomen in general.
8: You are not a woman and you will never be one unless you happen to be able to prove the existance of r[eincarnation. You are a mentally ill, emotionally unstable individual who has a deep seeded disatisfaction with his life and is looking for a soap box to preach from to try and force others to accept absurdities likely because it gives you a feeling of control and power you cannot gain any other way.

I doubt you are actually transgender, i doubt you have seen doctors and i doubt you are anything apart from lonely and angry boy looking for attention and somewhere to vent your frustration.

Still you claim im a bigot so i guess we could both be wrong.

Kor breaks out the big guns and throws the whole tackle box of unwelcome assertions at Serafina.
9: I suggest that you move to the bible belt, you would fit in much better there. Serafina sta ys mild but drops a characteristically SDN-style comparison to fundamentalist Christians.
10: And after seeing what you claim is your picture i suggest you join a rock band as the main MALE lead singer, a meatloaf parody band would be perfect, can you sing "Bat out of hell?". Kor responds to that attack with another low blow.
11: Not only are you distorting what i am saying again, but that is - and i have to use that word - sheer, unadultered hateful bigotry again. ... Ah, more - and the word is 100% appropriate - bigotry. Serafina characterises Kor's continued sexual essentialism as "hateful bigotry," and his subsequent insult as "more bigotry." I think characterising the insult as bigoted is appropriate, but classing topical disagreement as "hateful bigotry" is another matter.
12: I am insulting you cos of what you look like simply because you insulted me, i suppose you being FUGLY even as a dude is tecnically biology though.
...
You look like a young meatloaf in a frock, or at the very least a male rock fan......buy a Led Zeppelin's or Motörhead T-shirt and do a bit of headbanging, you would be great at the "whiplash" technique. You can always get chopped up and go from a fertile dude to a sterile transwoman later if it does not work out...

Kor explains that he's going to go tit-for-tat and then does so.
13: I do not like you because you are a insulting distorting manipulative liar and that is about you as a person, your desired gender, sexual preferances or foot size are irrelavant to those things. Kor explains why he doesn't like Serafina.
14: You can try to convince a fundamentalist christian that homosexuality is okay all you like, you will never have any success. But you can still argue against him, lest he might infect others with his bigotry.
Your case is pretty similar.
Serafina returns to SDN-classic mode and says that Kor is like a fundie.
15: By those just like you.

Serafina you are a sick child raping pervert.......there you go i can now claim that there have been accusations that you are a sick child raping pervert...see how easy it is?
This is actually an argumentative point. Serafina appeared to subsequently recognise it as such.
Hey you are ugly, the fact that you are a ugly mutilated guy or a ugly transwoman is not the important part. However, Kor follows it up with another low blow. To review, we've moved from accusations of bigotry and lying to psychiatrists to "ugly" and "fundie."
16: I know real women who are into dudes with long hair as well, id introduce you but i like them. Kor swipes in another quick shot to the shin.
17: ]But if you would consider them worthwhile, you would hate them. Serafina is still trying to generalise Kor's opinion of her to all transsexuals.
18: Stop living in your illness and take a look at what a lying manipulative kind of person you are. Kor being as diplomatic as usual.
19: Again, you are doing nothing but preaching hate against transsexual people and launching personal insults. Serafina's reply.
20: And i need no parenting advise from a soon to be neutered wannabe female. "Neutered" is a new one from Kor.
21: You use those words after your vast strawman and distorted post above it?.

I am done with discussing this with a deranged, obsessed, liar my points are made, confirmed by science.

Kor calls Serafina "deranged."
22: Actually i am now continuing this discussion elsewhere with individuals who are considerably more stable and honest than you, and while they do not agree with some of the things i have said they do not resort to the distortions/strawmen tactics that you do even though they are fully transitioned transexuals. Kor calls Serafina dishonest and unstable and says he's off to debate the topic with nicer transsexuals elsewhere who don't strawman his arguments.
23: I insult you because you are a deranged, manipulative, lying asshole not because you are transgendered. Kor calls Serafina an asshole.
24: Actually id say that when somebody goes to so much effort, fails to find what they want and concludes its somebody elses fault it is reasonable to conclude they need help, you really are a deranged, obsessive nut job aint ya?. Kor calls Serafina deranged again (in response to Serafina's accusation that he couldn't possibly be involved in another discussion with transsexuals elsewhere on the internet).




Quote:
but from where I stand it seems like doing that is merely giving an inch and loosing a yard and doing it to some one who;s then going to be embolden by that and get worse


Not indulging him does not mean ignoring him it means i am compiling a properly formatted list of his claims he has made and the rebuttals he has continued to ignore on a notepad all ready to copy paste and they will be the reply he gets from me in EVERY thread he posts in until he addresses or concedes them.


Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:29 pm
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Kor_Dahar_Master wrote:


LOL doubtful, check out the Serafina thread...:).


that made me laugh thank you..though her attitude seemed pretty terrible and you merely meeting fire with fire

Kor_Dahar_Master wrote:
Not indulging him does not mean ignoring him it means i am compiling a properly formatted list of his claims he has made and the rebuttals he has continued to ignore on a notepad all ready to copy paste and they will be the reply he gets from me in EVERY thread he posts in until he addresses or concedes them.


see this shouldn't happen JMS had the opportunity to end this clowns rampage and he choose not too.e


Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:17 am
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Beyond the sockpuppetry I don't have any real complaints, while annoying I don't even find StarWarsStarTrek that big of a problem.

As to Mike and Praeoth I think both have been swell, It took me about a month or so before I even realized Praeoth was a mod thanks to me usually ignoring technical threads, and in my opinion neither have tried to throw their weight around.

What can I say, I'm very easy to please. :)

@Admiral Breetai:

Sorry StarwarStartrek seems to be getting you so steamed up as well for the moment is reprieved so to speak. JMS would only do so however if he thought there was doubt on his guilt however, and while I'm am loath to the slippery slope argument in this case I think it is prudent to weigh everything carefully. "Vaping" a stupid and obnoxious debater just because he is so may not be the best alternative.

I'm not saying I think he's innocent, I do think he's doing this deliberatly in my humble and unfounded opinion, but that he walking in a gray area. Again I'm sorry he seems to be infuriating you as it appears.

@Kor_Dahar_Master:

Oh God! If there was one argument I didn't expect to occur on a STvSW board it would be that. :)


Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:12 pm
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no the man does not infuriate me I mean I've encountered trolls way worse then him I'll give him that he isn't even the worse DOw I ran into..whats bugging me is the fact that what he is doing is clear..and the guys on high refuse to act for reasons that to me seem incredibly flimsy

thats all it's the lack of actual justice that's enraging and excuses presented


Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:18 am
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see JMS when you give posters like that the benefit of the doubt for what ever reason

well you end up receiving something like this gigantic piece of monkey crap
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1965

this is a gargantuan flame baiting post the stupidity and dishonesty in the OP alone the fact that one need only read a paragraph at most to see it's blatant and complete trolling on the part of SWST who at this junction is not interested in doing any more then rubbing his views in peoples faces and stubbornly and dishonestly harping the same garbage over and over.


Last edited by Admiral Breetai on Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:15 am
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Thank you. :)

Sorry if I sounded argumenative.

I guess I just want us all to get alone, Lord I can't believe I just said that, and its just that everything was calm for years and now its like we're spirialing into Mad Max or something. Things been chaotic of late as you know, and yes I can see your point. I just don't personally think we're at that level yet, at least I hope not. :)


Last edited by sonofccn on Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:26 pm
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sonofccn wrote:
While I agree its flame bait, and I hope SWST gets the hammer dropped down on him for it, but isn't your post a little...confrontational to JMS? At the very worst he made the wrong decision, if not made the right one and SWST just lobed a grenade for the hell of it, I see no need for what appears to be scorn. I'm sorry but I think you are unfairly haranging JMS, at least that what it looks to me.


sure I'm being a little confrontational but I'd think it'd be disrespectful for me to say bite the bullet and just beat around the bush, he's our boss and to me it's allot more respectful to be as candid as possible then to play it political so to speak.

I wasn't exactly mocking him or anything hell I've been in his shoes once or twice on another forum and it was that kind of brutal candor from a member that got me to open my eyes and take a step back and look twice even if one comes to the same conclusion

I suppose I could edit though if you feel it's truly horrible


Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:54 pm
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there is such a thing as trolling for the greater good, is what you're saying. i agree whole-fartedly. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh the laughs just keep coming. terrance & philip quotes are the new cool!


Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:34 am
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