General Warning Tally for users...

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Praeothmin
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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Praeothmin » Tue May 17, 2011 12:39 pm

The main issue is that being obtuse and dishonest is not as clearly froned upon as insults and flaming.
Plus, sometimes it's hard to prove dishonesty.
In this case, it seems SWST truly believes what MW says, and may not understand the underlaying issues with MW's methodology.
To him, the calculations looked correct according to the information at hand.
Yes he is obtuse, yes he keeps using the same arguments over and over again, ignoring counter-arguments.
This is why I keep telling you to ignore him then.
Just say all his arguments have been adressed, and until he comes up with new arguments, you will ignore him.
Getting frustrated isn't worth it.
Look at what I'm doing with KSW.
I stopped caring about his lack of arguments, and barely take the time to reply anymore, because I know he'll do a SWST and ignore arguments, refuse to prove anything he claims, and simply dance around the issues with pseudo scientific bullshit, so I mostly ignore him now.
You can do the same...

Admiral Breetai
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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Admiral Breetai » Tue May 17, 2011 2:06 pm

insults and flaming worse than dishonesty? that's frankly silly especially on a cyber vs debate when all you have is the consistency of your own views to validate you

and no I'm not going to let a troll like this continue to fuck up the forum I'm going to combat him honestly and legally when ever he decides to troll until he either flips out and gets himself banned...as it seems to be doing or he decides to leave or one of you decides to place more emphasis on dealing with markedly dangerous (loosely any ways) dishonest trolls

as for him not understanding Wong's errors look I'm not a genius but even I can spot the sheer amount of assumptions he makes that his style of calculation is based off using one part canon and one part "what ever the fuck I happen to think is a "generous sum" hell his whole argument regarding the use of things like the ICS (when it came around ) and other inflated EU sources is as said by one DOW here "it isn't supported but it's also not contradicted' any one who looks at the mans "math style" if you will and that used by his more dedicated followers can tell it's a gigantic heap of bullshit..even if they are well frankly I have seen debates were middle school have shredded SDn;ers arguments over on rumbles...

SWST comes off like some one who barely understand the science and math that goes into his masters numbers but should be able to see the BS but chooses not too because he is a blind fanatic..I mean was this point lost on you when he challenged Darkstar and myself to a debate? the opening post was basically a troll, post I S modded another debate board for several years I'd of banned him just for that under the "obvious trolling is obvious" clause ..yet here he continues..he got well he got his ass whooped in those debates frankly Darkstar all but annihilated him and I basically threw up a wall he simply could not get over and as a result got smashed and he reacted by becoming even more resentful bullheaded and more aggressive in his antics


boss I gotta say I like your policy and the civility you have maintained here but at this junction in this case it stinks like a peer at low tide...I mean the number one rule in vs debating at least the way I was taught is you never ever lay down for a guy like this because the moment you do it invites more..and all decent debate stops

Kor_Dahar_Master
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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Tue May 17, 2011 3:10 pm

Unless he breaks the rules by being abusive ect then he should not be officially reprimanded or banned, keep reducing his delusions and crap from SDN to the jokes they are and he will eventually realise he is wasting his time.

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Praeothmin
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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Praeothmin » Tue May 17, 2011 3:21 pm

Admiral, as I said, you can tell him you've nothing else to say until he addresses all yours and other peoples's rebuttals...

As for the dishonesty bit, at first you need to give people some slack, and since I don't have the time to pour over everything MW says, I can't tell when SWST is using false info...

Mike is doing a good job of it, I think, so I'll let him deal with the SWST case...
Kor wrote:he will eventually realise he is wasting his time
Like KSW ultimately realised it? :)

Kor_Dahar_Master
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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Tue May 17, 2011 3:35 pm

Praeothmin wrote:
Kor wrote:he will eventually realise he is wasting his time
Like KSW ultimately realised it? :)
SWST is a obvious troll, look at his last stupid claim in the shielding thread.

He goes from Wong's rubbish being destroyed to picking out some of the comments and percentages mentioned (like 20% auxiliary power) and has constructed crap not only about it being in regards to "auxiliary shields" (a new type of shielding i have never heard mention in that episode or any other for that matter) rather than "auxiliary power" as it is stated but he is also claiming that it was from the stars proximity when the dialog clearly says it was from the tractor beam and the scene shows they were not even inside the sphere when it was mentioned to be down to 20%.

It is just trolling to get a rise out of us.

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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Mike DiCenso » Tue May 17, 2011 4:57 pm

Yes, and were SWST going to continue down that route, then I'd hit him/her with another warning since deliberately misrepresenting the material presented is a clear violation of this board's dishonesty rule.

However, for fairness' sake, I give people a chance to retract or withdraw their statement when confronted with the how and why of their error.

As for Breetai and everyone else, if you guys think SWST is just trolling, don't give in and start yelling and throwing a fit over it. Just quietly report what SWST is doing, and don't get yourself into trouble over it. Praeo and I will take care of it, but we have to do it carefully since SWST is not actively making personel insults and the like, and there is enough of a possibility that the person may in some cases making an honest mistake. Otherwise we as mods are no better than those on SDN or SBC.
-Mike

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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Tue May 17, 2011 5:30 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:Yes, and were SWST going to continue down that route, then I'd hit him/her with another warning since deliberately misrepresenting the material presented is a clear violation of this board's dishonesty rule.

However, for fairness' sake, I give people a chance to retract or withdraw their statement when confronted with the how and why of their error.

As for Breetai and everyone else, if you guys think SWST is just trolling, don't give in and start yelling and throwing a fit over it. Just quietly report what SWST is doing, and don't get yourself into trouble over it. Praeo and I will take care of it, but we have to do it carefully since SWST is not actively making personel insults and the like, and there is enough of a possibility that the person may in some cases making an honest mistake. Otherwise we as mods are no better than those on SDN or SBC.
-Mike
I agree with everything you say including the bit about taking action, this is NOT SDN or SB.com and i would not want us to even start down that route.

However pointing out his dishonesty and tactics in detail is useful for others to see and within the rules as long as i am not abusive i assume?.

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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Mike DiCenso » Tue May 17, 2011 5:36 pm

That's fine, as long as you don't make it such a crusade that you wind up harrassing SWST or anyone else on the board. You also have to make sure that you have your ducks in order when bringing such a thing up to any future user member, and can cite threads and information that supports what you are saying, otherwise it just looks like sour grapes and a bone to pick on your part to someone who doesn't know any better.
-Mike

User1356
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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by User1356 » Tue May 17, 2011 9:58 pm

Hmm, its like I've seen this all before somewhere else...

Admiral Breetai
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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Admiral Breetai » Wed May 18, 2011 2:16 am

InvaderSkooj wrote:Hmm, its like I've seen this all before somewhere else...
if you have a clue why don't you share with us?

oh wait that'd imply you actually do something useful here

Kor_Dahar_Master
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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Wed May 18, 2011 6:17 am

Admiral Breetai wrote:
InvaderSkooj wrote:Hmm, its like I've seen this all before somewhere else...
if you have a clue why don't you share with us?

oh wait that'd imply you actually do something useful here
It is just a expression of his disapointment that we deal with those who disagree with us by correcting them rather than banning them like SDN and SB.com does.

Could you ever see vympel/leo1, white rabbit or rama ect ect on SB or those on SDN saying that some dude they dislike or who disagrees with them should NOT be banned for doing so?, those guys use the report button like quick draw Mcgraw lol.

Or god forbid the mods actually having a thread like this that details the infractions and punishments for all to see.

At least now we know why he is trolling so hard thanks to InvaderSkooj and his poor attempts to try and draw paralells.
Last edited by Kor_Dahar_Master on Wed May 18, 2011 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Praeothmin
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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Praeothmin » Wed May 18, 2011 5:12 pm

So then, new tallies are:

Khas = 1 warning
(for his replies to KSW)

Admiral Breetaï = 2 warnings

StarWarsStarTrek = 1 warnings
(For repeadely ignoring rebuttals to his arguments and repeating them over and over again without adressing the rebuttals)

Mr. Oragahn = 1 warning

Admiral Breetai
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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Admiral Breetai » Wed May 18, 2011 6:12 pm

that infraction is unfounded and unfair and the reasons for it are unjust firstly KSW needs no provocation to start running a rambo on your site and flaming...then lecturing about how he's above it all and blah blah..where as I've endured this abuse for months with out resorting to what I'm doing now I react and I'm only reacting because you somehow project your struggle with KSW..and Mike can't do anything because he feels banning people just for being jerks is ethically wrong

don't punish your members because they're stuck with some one who listen because you wont or cant act

oh and please don't compare me with that guy that's just...well it's something

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Praeothmin
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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Praeothmin » Wed May 18, 2011 7:17 pm

SWST was given a warning for his presentation of false materials, but the refusal to admit evidence is NOT against the rules.
That's called being obtuse, and the worst punishment you could all give him is to all ignore him if his behavior infuriates you so...
But we've told many, many times to cool it, and still you continue, Admiral.
Thus why you get a warning.

If you feel I've been unjust, please feel free to bring this up to JMS or Mike.

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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Admiral Breetai » Wed May 18, 2011 7:47 pm

when the guy literally repeats "you haven't provided proof or you didn't actually respond" it stops being obtuse and starts being rampant dishonesty

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