General Warning Tally for users...

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Praeothmin
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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Praeothmin » Tue May 15, 2012 12:04 pm

Oh, mojo mojo mojo, I know you have bad blood with Mike, but to refuse to see that KSW was just as bad as SWST is pushing it... :)

SWST ignored other people's evidence, and repeated arguments that had been adressed, often times in multiple threads because he kept running away, and then demanded that we show him siad ignored evidence, and when we did, he started to insult us...

KSW invented many BS explanations for which he had not one iota of evidence, was called on it, and I franckly don't remember where he stated his pet theories did not have evidence, they were just pet thories of his...
What I clearly remember is all the times he called Khas and I idiots, morons, all in colorfoul metaphors, because we demanded evidence for his pet theories, evidence which he could not provide, yet never backed down on his claims...
He used more insults than SWST, and deserved to be banned...

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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Tue May 15, 2012 12:23 pm

Mojo, just let it go. SWST was a troll which could have been a fairly benign thing if dealt with soon enough. KSW was not behaving properly, and that has always been a reason for bans. I got bans for snapping.
Yes, the way rules were handled is far from perfect, but now let's look at the final result. Was KSW a sockpuppet of yours or something? I don't remember much from him other than as someone who at first posted some interesting ideas and then, as someone who was just yelling at others and insulting left and right with capslock at times for no good reason.
Yes, you have a problem with Mike's style, we get it, and I also had issues with how he managed things, but it's over. You're back, two bothersome individuals are off, and we have an extra moderator now.

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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by sonofccn » Tue May 15, 2012 12:31 pm

@Mojo
MauriceWindows wrote:
Praeothmin wrote:
KSW wrote:That's if the ship is unable to escape the tractor-beam. However even if the tractor-beam was so far away and weak that it was only 1G, then it would precisely duplicate the effect of a planet's gravity, and prevent it from jumping without scrapping the hyperdrive.
So this is where I request for your evidence that Tractor Beams are not unidirectional
It's irrelevant, gravity is unidirectional as far as the ship is concerned, it pulls the ship directly to it in ONE direction with ONE gravitational force-vector of 1g, STRAIGHT DOWN.

All else are IRRELEVANT differences. Let me know when you get a clue and I'll send your browser a cookie.
From Sat April 7 of this year and we have KSW responding to a request for evidence on his theroy for why a tractor beams mere presence would prevent a hyperspace jump one which he replies not that it is merely personal speculation but instead evades the request all togather and once more pretends the his solution is the obvious and straightforward one.
Mojo wrote:you did the same thing to me six months ago, using a case of sockpuppeting which was so nefarious that other staff joined in on the joke as justification for a ridiculously long ban.
While I did think the threat of a permaban in your case was overkill you were asking for trouble the way you kept up with those childish threads about Mike. Also I do find it funny your complaining that Mike is a loose cannon mod playing by his own rules when back in the day you requested that he and Preao be loose cannon mods that played by their own rules and to use any and all pretext to ban those dangerous to the board.

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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Tue May 15, 2012 2:07 pm

sonofccn wrote:While I did think the threat of a permaban in your case was overkill you were asking for trouble the way you kept up with those childish threads about Mike. Also I do find it funny your complaining that Mike is a loose cannon mod playing by his own rules when back in the day you requested that he and Preao be loose cannon mods that played by their own rules and to use any and all pretext to ban those dangerous to the board.
... with the slight difference that it was to do something inherently good, as a matter of fact. I shouldn't have to remind you that it was this lack of proper decision that drove quite a number of people, including me, on a tangent into losing respect for the staff and spirit of this board.
Nothing of that would have happened if the proper and much obvious decision had been taken in due time.
I recall mojo went on a mad parade after Mike thought it was better to distribute warnings to member who may drop one or two bits of vulgarity here and there rather than actually properly moderate SWST.
I still also don't get why Trinoya's arrival was so necessary to unlock the case and have him take the "hard decision" to have SWST banned. A choice applauded by Mike. That still baffles me, especially considering how, towards the end and before Trinoya's arrival, I was again sending report and report about SWST, including links to posts of mine describing what he was doing wrong.

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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by sonofccn » Tue May 15, 2012 3:41 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:... with the slight difference that it was to do something inherently good, as a matter of fact. I shouldn't have to remind you that it was this lack of proper decision that drove quite a number of people, including me, on a tangent into losing respect for the staff and spirit of this board.
Nothing of that would have happened if the proper and much obvious decision had been taken in due time.
I recall mojo went on a mad parade after Mike thought it was better to distribute warnings to member who may drop one or two bits of vulgarity here and there rather than actually properly moderate SWST.
Well we all had issues with SWST however I do not agree with his idea of spreading chaos to generate some nebulous awareness of what he percieves is a double standard. The long and short of it is Mojo broke the rules, warning members who drop one or two bits of profanity is one of the mods enscribed duties just as much as it is disposing of trolls, and while Mike may have overeacted its is Mojo's own fault for keeping prodding the guy even after he was well warned.

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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed May 16, 2012 9:06 am

sonofccn wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote:... with the slight difference that it was to do something inherently good, as a matter of fact. I shouldn't have to remind you that it was this lack of proper decision that drove quite a number of people, including me, on a tangent into losing respect for the staff and spirit of this board.
Nothing of that would have happened if the proper and much obvious decision had been taken in due time.
I recall mojo went on a mad parade after Mike thought it was better to distribute warnings to member who may drop one or two bits of vulgarity here and there rather than actually properly moderate SWST.
Well we all had issues with SWST however I do not agree with his idea of spreading chaos to generate some nebulous awareness of what he percieves is a double standard. The long and short of it is Mojo broke the rules, warning members who drop one or two bits of profanity is one of the mods enscribed duties just as much as it is disposing of trolls, and while Mike may have overeacted its is Mojo's own fault for keeping prodding the guy even after he was well warned.
I know he broke rules. I know he made that bad thread on Mike. But I don't see anything "nebulous" about what he did. It was very obvious why he was venting his frustration. I merely wish smart actions had been taken before, in due time.
I see SF Fan has found a nice cesspool to thrive in, and we know that this kind of troll at SBC is a magic combo really, because he's certainly going to find a lot of support over there, and drive some members nuts.

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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by mojo » Wed May 16, 2012 12:16 pm

sonofccn wrote:@Mojo
Mojo wrote:you did the same thing to me six months ago, using a case of sockpuppeting which was so nefarious that other staff joined in on the joke as justification for a ridiculously long ban.
While I did think the threat of a permaban in your case was overkill you were asking for trouble the way you kept up with those childish threads about Mike. Also I do find it funny your complaining that Mike is a loose cannon mod playing by his own rules when back in the day you requested that he and Preao be loose cannon mods that played by their own rules and to use any and all pretext to ban those dangerous to the board.
either your memory is playing tricks on you, or you still to this day fail to understand what i was proposing 'back in the day'. i have NEVER advocated any kind of 'loose cannon that plays by his own rules'. i was in favor of allowing the staff to moderate according to the one central rule of the board, to give warnings when obvious but subtle trolling takes place. there's a difference. swst was trolling with intent to harm, literally everyone on the board but jms agreed about this, including both mods. i'm not going any further with this topic, i've been bored to tears with it for ages.

what makes this so galling and hard to let go of is not so much ksw's ban but the total lack of transparency and total refusal to address appeals. this very thread proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is happening. on a forum which is supposed to have complete transparency in moderation, the lead mod completely ignores any appeals to that moderation. right now as i type this, he is ignoring my claim that he has ignored my arguments and appeals, which board policy requires him to address.
would it be so fucking difficult to acknowledge what he accidentally admitted months ago - that my six goddamn month ban was completely invalid according to the goddamn policy of the goddamn board? is he SO BUSY that he cannot spare the time to respond to months and months worth of claims of dishonest moderation backed up by evidence? he just doesn't care. i've made very fucking serious accusations here myself, and he simply pretends they aren't there. he's just trying to wait me out, knowing that eventually i'll slip up and he will simply permban me without ever bothering to respond.
and not only does HE not care, NOONE cares. the only response to all these posts i have made is argument that ksw's ban was valid. no discussion or acknowledgement of anything else.

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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by sonofccn » Wed May 16, 2012 1:07 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:I know he broke rules. I know he made that bad thread on Mike.
True, if I understand you correctly our disagreement hinges more on if his actions were justified and if that in turn should lessen the punishment recieved.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:But I don't see anything "nebulous" about what he did. It was very obvious why he was venting his frustration. I merely wish smart actions had been taken before, in due time.
I disagree. The results of his antics are very much a "nebulous" mess highly dependent upon ones individual interpetation. You for instance feel it was justified, that he was showing up the inherent idiocy of cracking down on vulgarity types while leaving the real villian untouched. To me Mojo's actions were clear cut violations of the board rules, ones which all things being equal not only would I not be surprised he'd be punished before a SWST type but I'd expect an effective Mod to do so, proving nothing and only adding more disruption to the board.
Mojo wrote:either your memory is playing tricks on you, or you still to this day fail to understand what i was proposing 'back in the day'. i have NEVER advocated any kind of 'loose cannon that plays by his own rules'. i was in favor of allowing the staff to moderate according to the one central rule of the board, to give warnings when obvious but subtle trolling takes place.
Here
Past Mojo wrote:that is the vaguest rule i've ever seen in my life, and what's worse, it seems to me that the purpose of that vagueness is probably to allow staff to interpret the law for themselves. there's no specific rule against this thing or that thing BECAUSE WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS THAT YOU WON'T BE BOUND BY RULES THAT WOULD INHIBIT YOUR ABILITY TO MODERATE AS YOU SEE FIT. YOU choose what constitutes reasonable, polite, informative debate.
You essentially argued they trump up any and all charges against problem posters in order to dispose of them for the greater good of the board. How is there any difference in what you claimed Mike did to you and what you argued they should do for "subtle trolls"?
what makes this so galling and hard to let go of is not so much ksw's ban but the total lack of transparency and total refusal to address appeals.
Lack of transparency? There is a thread devoted to it and any potential complaints one might have regarding his permaband. His reasoning for his permaban is given within and various board members acknowledge and respond to it. One may disagree with the verdict but Mike didn't frag KSW in the dead of night and hope no one noticed.
this very thread proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is happening. on a forum which is supposed to have complete transparency in moderation, the lead mod completely ignores any appeals to that moderation. right now as i type this, he is ignoring my claim that he has ignored my arguments and appeals, which board policy requires him to address.
Well for starters I believe it would go to Trinoya to review his fellow Mod. Second you don't have much of a leg to stand on, as I said before Mike may have overreacted but you were the one who kept prodding him trying to draw out a reaction.
would it be so fucking difficult to acknowledge what he accidentally admitted months ago - that my six goddamn month ban was completely invalid according to the goddamn policy of the goddamn board? is he SO BUSY that he cannot spare the time to respond to months and months worth of claims of dishonest moderation backed up by evidence?
Well for starters you appeared to have been banned from Feburary 17 of this year and returned no later than May 1st of this year so it would be closer to four months rather than "six goddamn month". Second Mike has responded to your "evidence" relayed by airlocke_Jedi_Knight namely that the seriousness of your offense as well as their chronic behavior was the justification for his extreme actions. Now maybe he overreacted but by that point he was the sole Mod, was being flooded with demands to dispose of SWST and had you deliberately trying to get his blood pressure up.
only response to all these posts i have made is argument that ksw's ban was valid. no discussion or acknowledgement of anything else.
Preao, myself, Mr. Oragahn have each tried to explain our position on the matter. By any rational metric there is a discussion occuring, merely one where you appear to represent the minority opinion.

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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed May 16, 2012 10:37 pm

sonofccn wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote:I know he broke rules. I know he made that bad thread on Mike.
True, if I understand you correctly our disagreement hinges more on if his actions were justified and if that in turn should lessen the punishment recieved.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:But I don't see anything "nebulous" about what he did. It was very obvious why he was venting his frustration. I merely wish smart actions had been taken before, in due time.
I disagree. The results of his antics are very much a "nebulous" mess highly dependent upon ones individual interpetation. You for instance feel it was justified, that he was showing up the inherent idiocy of cracking down on vulgarity types while leaving the real villian untouched. To me Mojo's actions were clear cut violations of the board rules, ones which all things being equal not only would I not be surprised he'd be punished before a SWST type but I'd expect an effective Mod to do so, proving nothing and only adding more disruption to the board.
I'm not saying it was justified. I'm saying it's very understandable, considering mojo's personality. I'm not saying it was good either. But I'm against the idea that there wasn't a point in what he was doing. I believe other members got it as well, as the moderation soon became some kind of practical joke. It was very bad and basically all things went down on all fronts.

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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Mike DiCenso » Thu May 17, 2012 4:08 am

A lot would have been solved if people largely ignored SWST or just stayed calm. Once it became apparent that JMS was not going to support the mod staff's decisons on warning and banning him, we had to change our strategies in dealing with him. The fact that some of you guys decided to be total nerf heads over this only made things far worse than it ever had to be.
-Mike

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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Thu May 17, 2012 9:30 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:A lot would have been solved if people largely ignored SWST or just stayed calm.
On this same logic we can also ignore spambots. After all, they're not different: they don't bring quality to the board, they don't care about proper debating, and they produce parasitic irrelevant noise. We civilized men could just ignore them.
Your job would surely be simpler and less tiring.

Does it even need to be repeated how the "ignore him" argument is just poppycock? I've already pointed out how even if we had all ignored him, the nuisance he presented still was very real. I'm honestly tired of hearing about that argument from people who have done a very poor job of following their own advice.
This position is insane and quite dishonest if I may say. It's completely fucking NUTS to force the community through a mental labour that requires ignoring every possible manifestation of the nuisance as much as possible, because it cleary implies the admission that the nuisance is perfectly identified as such and known to be worthless, and therefore, instead of clearing the board of that pest, some madmen like you and Praeothmin prefer to keep it around and instead have decent members do the work, just for the kicks of supposedly keeping our precious form of free speech around, or the beauty of debate or any kind of similar hogwash that only lures a few lost souls. It has failed, and will continue to do so. We have free speech, but only for those who deserve it, and I think we’re still a thousand times more lenient on those criteria than all those major boards we’ve been criticizing.
Not to say that Mods have a duty, that is to protect the board. Their duty is not to give the finger to members and ask them to do something as silly as mentally filtering anything that could be written by trolls, which is requiring, in the end, that the members do an effort. Hello? There’s no effort to require from members there. Respect them for crying out loud. The nice people aren’t to be held responsible of any disturbance resulting from an interaction with an infectious agent. SWST are Jasonb aren’t vaccines dammit!
We’re damn lucky that we don't have that many new members. Or would you be chasing them and making public announcements about how they should ignore member X or Y. They would all go WTF? Some would obviously ask why you haven't permabanned X or Y then, we're ALL supposed to ignore them. What's the point keeping them around, aside from taking the stupid risk to have anyone feed the trolls by inadvertence and allowing said trolls to pollute the board with even the ability to post new threads which they obviously don’t even begin to deserve? Is the lunacy of that situation just that impossible for you to grasp or what??
Mike DiCenso wrote:Once it became apparent that JMS was not going to support the mod staff's decisons on warning and banning him, we had to change our strategies in dealing with him.
Change strategies against the admin. If you haven't laughed yet, now might be a good time!
Don't you remember that JMS' sort of revelation about his abdication actually came several bans too late, well after the whole thing already went down the drain?
The fact that some of you guys decided to be total nerf heads over this only made things far worse than it ever had to be.
-Mike
No you made things far worse. Praeothmin did a better job but the moment JMS countered him Praeoth didn't even complain publicly, quietly stepped down the following days, and then went on with the same ridiculous idea of ignoring SWST, only to be found responding to him and trying to engage him in proper debate soon after that, like if his memory had been washed. o_O
Welcome to the madhouse!

Really, I will have to PM JMS about this at some point because it’s just too fucking crazy.
Damn, I fell like McCoy trying to shake Jim back to his senses here.

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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Praeothmin » Thu May 17, 2012 12:18 pm

[quote="Mr. Oragahn"."]and then went on with the same ridiculous idea of ignoring SWST, only to be found responding to him and trying to engage him in proper debate soon after that, like if his memory had been washed. o_O[/quote]

Except I never engaged him in multipages debate, only sniping once in a while, and ignoring him when I felt like it...

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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Mike DiCenso » Thu May 17, 2012 7:35 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:A lot would have been solved if people largely ignored SWST or just stayed calm.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: On this same logic we can also ignore spambots. After all, they're not different: they don't bring quality to the board, they don't care about proper debating, and they produce parasitic irrelevant noise. We civilized men could just ignore them. Your job would surely be simpler and less tiring.
That is a big flawed premise; first off a spambot doesn't know or care. It's just a deaf and dumb piece of software that scans sites and posts an ad on it, if it can get away with it. The agency behind said spambot is somethnig all but completely out of mine or anyone else's ability to do anything about. SWST and KSW on the other hand, as far as I know, are human beings deliberately engaging in discourse here with their posts. They are people that you can ignore, engage with and you will get a response and so on. Furthermore they are aware of their actions having consequences.

Mr. Oragahn wrote: Does it even need to be repeated how the "ignore him" argument is just poppycock? I've already pointed out how even if we had all ignored him, the nuisance he presented still was very real. I'm honestly tired of hearing about that argument from people who have done a very poor job of following their own advice.
After his intital appearance here, I took to largely refraining from responding to SWST, except in certain circumstances. I don't know what happened to WILGA, but he stopped responding to KSW and SWST. Trinoya largely did. See a person when they realize they're being ignored would start hopefully putting it together that what they're doing is wrong.

But there's another point you missed. A big one on why the advice of ignoring SWST was given. It is obvious that you and others were getting way too overly angered by SWST to remain rational. You and especially Mojo went and did some outageously stupid things, even when I and to a lesser extent Praeo were managing to get numerous warnings and eventually bans to stick on SWST.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: This position is insane and quite dishonest if I may say. It's completely fucking NUTS to force the community through a mental labour that requires ignoring every possible manifestation of the nuisance as much as possible, because it cleary implies the admission that the nuisance is perfectly identified as such and known to be worthless, and therefore, instead of clearing the board of that pest, some madmen like you and Praeothmin prefer to keep it around and instead have decent members do the work, just for the kicks of supposedly keeping our precious form of free speech around, or the beauty of debate or any kind of similar hogwash that only lures a few lost souls. It has failed, and will continue to do so. We have free speech, but only for those who deserve it, and I think we’re still a thousand times more lenient on those criteria than all those major boards we’ve been criticizing.
That's only if you ignore the context of the situations as they happened. You were getting overly worked up and the advice was given to you in that context several times as I recall. If that was not communicated well enough, then my apologies.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: Not to say that Mods have a duty, that is to protect the board. Their duty is not to give the finger to members and ask them to do something as silly as mentally filtering anything that could be written by trolls, which is requiring, in the end, that the members do an effort. Hello? There’s no effort to require from members there. Respect them for crying out loud. The nice people aren’t to be held responsible of any disturbance resulting from an interaction with an infectious agent. SWST are Jasonb aren’t vaccines dammit!
I used this analogy before, I'll remind you of it again. To put it simply, the law as was set down by JMS applies equally. Going on destructive rants against SWST served no purpose except to draw unwarranted attention to the more obvious disturbance. That is you, Breetai, and especially Mojo. I was the patient detective building an airtight case against SWST (which worked, I'll remind you, even though it took longer) so that JMS, who was very active in those days, could not keep overturning warnings and bans. So while I was doing that, Mojo goes out and does the internet version of a riot. Burning and overturning cars and looting. It does not help to do that, you know. Oops, gotta drop being the patient detective to go do riot control and knock some heads together. It just means that the limited staff here has to deal with that it. I lost a lot of time dealing with SWST because of Mojo, whether he likes to admit it or not.
We’re damn lucky that we don't have that many new members. Or would you be chasing them and making public announcements about how they should ignore member X or Y. They would all go WTF? Some would obviously ask why you haven't permabanned X or Y then, we're ALL supposed to ignore them. What's the point keeping them around, aside from taking the stupid risk to have anyone feed the trolls by inadvertence and allowing said trolls to pollute the board with even the ability to post new threads which they obviously don’t even begin to deserve? Is the lunacy of that situation just that impossible for you to grasp or what??
Telling people to ignore trolls is an age old tactic that goes back to the earliest days of Usenet. But see above, your rant here doesn't change the facts, and you obviously missed or ignored key events and context of the advice given.
Mike DiCenso wrote:Once it became apparent that JMS was not going to support the mod staff's decisons on warning and banning him, we had to change our strategies in dealing with him.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: Change strategies against the admin. If you haven't laughed yet, now might be a good time!
Don't you remember that JMS' sort of revelation about his abdication actually came several bans too late, well after the whole thing already went down the drain?
Here again you missed what I was saying. But that's not suprising as you are getting all hot headed again instead of thinking rationally. When giving SWST bans for the obvious infractions was not working, then giving him infraction warnings based on detailed evidence of a continued pattern (my patient detective work) and asking people to document it in detail are what won the day as JMS did not "abdicate" his postion until fairly recently. But even then, just because JMS stepped down doesn't mean that I will throw away his rules. That's a silppery slope I refuse to go down since many of those rules are put in place to prevent this place from turning into a mini-SDN. The worst part is Praeo stepped down before JMS did and we lost him at a critical juncture in this whole sorry mess. Trinoya came in far too late, and I have no idea at this point how he'll do as a mod.
Mike DiCenso wrote: The fact that some of you guys decided to be total nerf heads over this only made things far worse than it ever had to be.
-Mike
Mr. Oragahn wrote: No you made things far worse. Praeothmin did a better job but the moment JMS countered him Praeoth didn't even complain publicly, quietly stepped down the following days, and then went on with the same ridiculous idea of ignoring SWST, only to be found responding to him and trying to engage him in proper debate soon after that, like if his memory had been washed. o_O
Welcome to the madhouse!

Really, I will have to PM JMS about this at some point because it’s just too fucking crazy.
Damn, I fell like McCoy trying to shake Jim back to his senses here.
After SWST came back from his bans, I engaged him on a limited basis to find out if he learned anything from his bans. Again, you are getting too worked up here emotionally to even get a rational objective view of what happened. In the end, my way was what worked when it came to pushing through bans and eventually the big permaban of SWST. No matter how you rant and rave, that's what won the day.
-Mike

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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by mojo » Fri May 18, 2012 8:10 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:I lost a lot of time dealing with SWST because of Mojo, whether he likes to admit it or not.
and there it is- the outright lie. there is no admission to be made here on my part, which i have pointed out time and again. let's go through it one final time before i give up trying to get you to be honest.

were my actions against forum rules?
YES.

were my actions productive toward dealing with swst?
NO.

did i deserve the ban i received?
YES.

have i ALWAYS admitted these things?
YES.

now, let's consider your reaction to my little prank, which has been CONSISTENTLY dishonest.

the prank
my prank was NINE POSTS consisting of a verse of a humorous but inappropriate song per post. none of these posts were longer than six lines. i used a sockpuppet account to post these messages so as to make them appear at first glance to have been posted by swst.

the reaction
you claim, as you have always claimed, that dealing with this took an exorbitant amount of time and damaged your ability to deal with swst. i claim, as i have always claimed, that you are lying and you know it. you have totally ignored this as you have ignored every other claim i have ever made against you, regardless of your claim in another thread that you have addressed them, which you know is an additional lie and an obvious attempt to avoid them yet again.

your posts in response immediately exceeded the number of posts of the prank itself. i would think that this alone would hint that you were blowing it slightly out of proportion. what was the justification for the intense scrutiny? you were afraid that what i had done would allow swst to claim he was not treated fairly and that he would take full advantage of this possibility to damage the reputation of the forum and then paint himself as a martyr. did this take place? given that he mentioned the prank exactly one time, in passing, it would seem your concern was misplaced.
of course, this doesn't excuse the fact that i broke the rules. it does, in retrospect, show that your fears were entirely baseless and destroys utterly any claim that i damaged your ability to deal with swst in that way.

so if my prank had no effect whatsoever on swst's behavior and totally failed to alter his strategy in any way whatsoever, and was in fact completely ignored by him save for one comment which basically asked you to make sure it didn't happen again, clearly the only possible damage i could have done would be to waste so much of your time that he was successful in harming the board while you dealt with my shenanigans.

even the slightest amount of thought annihilates that possibility.

1. investigating the prank
you swang into action, attempting to find the author and intent of the prank. i replied to each and every one of your posts, confused as to how you could possibly be spending so much time investigating a prank which i had INSTANTLY AND REPEATEDLY claimed credit for.
time validly wasted: NONE.
you can't claim it took time to discover who was responsible for the prank. i signed my goddamn name on it.
you can't claim it took time to ferret out the prank's intent. oragahn instantaneously recognized it as humor. what's more, he instantaneously identified it as MY brand of humor.

2. locating each post of the prank
meanwhile, someone starts a new thread which lists links to each and every post of my prank. it would seem that this thread, which i verified, would negate any possible effort on your part you might have otherwise had to spend finding them. this itself is a redundancy considering a simple press of your left mouse button over the 'view new posts' button would have given you the same information.
time validly wasted: NONE
you can't claim it took time to find each individual post, as someone was kind enough to provide this information. alternately, the 'view new posts' function would have been just as useful. alternately alternately, the 'search user's posts' function would have done the job given the fact that the sockpuppet's entire posting history consisted of those nine posts.

3. each post had to be dealt with
once you had established the location of each post, they had to be removed. it was also necessary to deal with any backlash from swst or the rest of the board in each thread.
time validly wasted: FIVE MINUTES?
you can't claim it took more than thirty seconds to delete each post from the board. once you navigated to each post, you simply had to again use your left mouse button once per post to click the 'delete' button.
you can't claim that it took time to moderate any behavior resulting from the prank, as none actually occurred. you did spend a moment warning breetai for 'encouraging' me, but since this was a result of both jumping to conclusions and lacking any knowledge of internet lingo, i don't think it qualifies.

4. distracted from other duties
after banning me, you were distracted from dealing with swst by the debate which immediately exploded into existence revolving around whether or not my prank was justified as a call to arms. you were forced to defend yourself against claims that staff's inability to deal with swst had driven me to it.
time validly wasted: NONE
you can't claim that defending yourself against breetai and oragahn took up valuable time which you could have used to strengthen your case against swst. if praeo were to make this claim, i would have given it to him. you, on the other hand, have proven time and again (at least ten times in the last ten pages of this very thread, for example) that you have no problem whatsoever ignoring attacks on your moderation, however sound. you are perfectly capable of going about your business with your fingers stuck in your ears singing 'lalala i'm not listening' when faced with accusations of impropriety.

the final nail in the coffin for me is the existence of this quote, which comes straight from an im exchange i had with other staff:
Well, I guess all I have to say is that our skin was thin, SWST's shit wasn't too clear, we didn't know how to deal with it, and you were a great scapegoat...
now you're claiming that you've already addressed it. where did this happen? can i get a link? you say that unless i have something 'new', you're not going to waste your time. well, i don't have anything new, so if you've dealt with the 'old' i'll have no choice but to drop the whole thing, which i would gladly do. surely never seeing this argument again would be incentive enough to provide a simple link. i don't think you'll provide that link, though, because it doesn't exist.

PLEASE explain to me where i'm wrong. seriously. PLEASE. i've been begging for an explanation since the first time you made this claim. you have ignored me each time, and then continued to claim it again and again.

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Mr. Oragahn
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Re: General Warning Tally for users...

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Fri May 18, 2012 11:39 am

Praeothmin wrote:[quote="Mr. Oragahn"."]and then went on with the same ridiculous idea of ignoring SWST, only to be found responding to him and trying to engage him in proper debate soon after that, like if his memory had been washed. o_O
Except I never engaged him in multipages debate, only sniping once in a while, and ignoring him when I felt like it...[/quote]

Which is useless, the point being to ignore the troll entirely and not feed it here and there, which you were doing and which gave it a reason to continue, and which sent all sorts of wrong signals to other members then thinking it's a fine thing to debate with SWST, especially as you're an ex-mod which means your opinion might be seen as a tad more relevant. I know how you replied. At time I saw you complain that he was doing his thing as usual, and at other times you were simply responding to some of his claims and countering them with stuff you knew by heart, which is the mechanic of debating on this forum and which won't look any different than some random member jumping in a thread and honestly discursively reacting to things said.
I can't blame you for feeling that need to address his claims, especially the fraudulent ones. We are all here because that's what we like to do ... well, the vast majority of us.
But I'm not a fan of being told to ignore a pest only to the see my lecturer not applying his advice to himself.
Besides, I proved with rather sound logic the futility of the idea of ignoring a troll. First of all because as I said above, either you do it entirely or you don't. There's certainly no in between, especially when some of the interventions look like regular debating.
And secondly, because if the board's response to that problem is to call members to ignore a specific member who is clearly a pest, there is absolutely no sane reason in the world to even bother thinking about doing anything else than going for a definitive banishing. Period.

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