Enforcement policy notice (Serafina, Kor_Dahar_Master)

For technical issues, problems, bugs, suggestions on improving these forums, discussion of the rules, etc.
User avatar
Tyralak
Bridge Officer
Posts: 234
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:39 am
Contact:

Re: Enforcement policy notice (Serafina, Kor_Dahar_Master)

Post by Tyralak » Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:42 pm

Why is Kor still banned? His ban was set to expire 6 hours ago.

Kor_Dahar_Master
Starship Captain
Posts: 1246
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:28 pm

Re: Enforcement policy notice (Serafina, Kor_Dahar_Master)

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:51 pm

Tyralak wrote:Why is Kor still banned? His ban was set to expire 6 hours ago.
Heh it just got lifted dude.

User avatar
Tyralak
Bridge Officer
Posts: 234
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:39 am
Contact:

Re: Enforcement policy notice (Serafina, Kor_Dahar_Master)

Post by Tyralak » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:00 pm

That was fast.

Youngla0450
Bridge Officer
Posts: 239
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:28 pm

Re: Enforcement policy notice (Serafina, Kor_Dahar_Master)

Post by Youngla0450 » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:02 pm

I wonder, if there is any really good fanfiction work besides ''Conquest'' on StarDestroyer.net, in which the Galactic Empire invades and conquers the Star Trek Galaxy. This time with more information on battles and such.

User avatar
Tyralak
Bridge Officer
Posts: 234
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:39 am
Contact:

Re: Enforcement policy notice (Serafina, Kor_Dahar_Master)

Post by Tyralak » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:06 pm

Youngla0450 wrote:I wonder, if there is any really good fanfiction work besides ''Conquest'' on StarDestroyer.net, in which the Galactic Empire invades and conquers the Star Trek Galaxy. This time with more information on battles and such.
I would imagine that most, if not all of the VS fanfiction on SDN involves the Empire conquering the ST galaxy. If you want some good fanfiction, I'd suggest visiting Dalton's site. http://www.daltonator.net he has a great story archive.
Last edited by Tyralak on Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Dude
Jedi Knight
Posts: 546
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:28 pm

Re: Enforcement policy notice (Serafina, Kor_Dahar_Master)

Post by The Dude » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:09 pm

Try Starcrossed, its quite good as fan fics go.

Youngla0450
Bridge Officer
Posts: 239
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:28 pm

Re: Enforcement policy notice (Serafina, Kor_Dahar_Master)

Post by Youngla0450 » Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:43 pm

Tyralak wrote:
Youngla0450 wrote:I wonder, if there is any really good fanfiction work besides ''Conquest'' on StarDestroyer.net, in which the Galactic Empire invades and conquers the Star Trek Galaxy. This time with more information on battles and such.
I would imagine that most, if not all of the VS fanfiction on SDN involves the Empire conquering the ST galaxy. If you want some good fanfiction, I'd suggest visiting Dalton's site. http://www.daltonator.net he has a great story archive.
I need a link to a fanfiction archive on that site, because when I go, I only see credits and a word called "Frames".

User avatar
Tyralak
Bridge Officer
Posts: 234
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:39 am
Contact:

Re: Enforcement policy notice (Serafina, Kor_Dahar_Master)

Post by Tyralak » Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:28 am

Youngla0450 wrote:I need a link to a fanfiction archive on that site, because when I go, I only see credits and a word called "Frames".
http://www.daltonator.net/fanfics/noframe.html

And I think this needs to be split into it's own thread, as it doesn't have anything to do with policy enforcement.

Mike DiCenso
Security Officer
Posts: 5836
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:49 pm

Re: Enforcement policy notice (Serafina, Kor_Dahar_Master)

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:43 am

Except for Chuck's fanfic, I don't see anything resembling a balanced story where neither side has an overwhelming advantage as is actually the case. Dalton's site tends to archive mostly the pro-Wars stuff.
-Mike

Jedi Master Spock
Site Admin
Posts: 2164
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:26 pm
Contact:

Re: Enforcement policy notice (Serafina, Kor_Dahar_Master)

Post by Jedi Master Spock » Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:00 pm

Jedi Master Spock wrote:Serafina has requested a full review of the events of the thread and made numerous private accusations of bigotry. I will therefore unravel and exhibit what happened regarding the exchange of insults in this thread.

1: And no prejudiced semi-octagenarian gardener is going to change that. Serafina, baiting Kor.
2 Say, are you a member of the family of blood? I better get my mobile phone then, and a fob watch. Serafina, baiting Kor.
3: I am not running from anything, your claim that a doctor you saw says you are a certain way is no more valid and likely less valid than the report from Zucker on his results. The real differance is that children are not practiced liars like you nor do they have access to the "transgender narrative" like you did. Kor, implying that Serafina lied to get a diagnosis.
4: Here, let me quote your original prejudiced drivel again: ... No, you prejudist. ... Again, you are just posting a drivel out of ignorance, hate and prejudice. Serafina needles Kor back, calling everything he has written "drivel" and saying that he hates transsexuals.
5: You do it here a lot so i see no reason why you would not do it elsewhere......a liar exposed is still a liar. Kor responds to this by fleshing out his accusation. As with Serafina's accusation of prejudice (lit: "before-judgment") there is substance to his saying that Serafina is a liar; however, it is the implications
6: Actually it clearly refers to me thinking you are emotionally unstable and cannot think rationally on the subject. ... This thread is full of evidence of what i and others consider your emotional instability regarding the subject. Kor follows this up by saying that Serafina is irrational on the subject at hand.
7: Your only source for that claim is your prejudice that transwomen are generally liars. Serafina generalizes Kor's claim about her in particular to transwomen in general.
8: You are not a woman and you will never be one unless you happen to be able to prove the existance of r[eincarnation. You are a mentally ill, emotionally unstable individual who has a deep seeded disatisfaction with his life and is looking for a soap box to preach from to try and force others to accept absurdities likely because it gives you a feeling of control and power you cannot gain any other way.

I doubt you are actually transgender, i doubt you have seen doctors and i doubt you are anything apart from lonely and angry boy looking for attention and somewhere to vent your frustration.

Still you claim im a bigot so i guess we could both be wrong.

Kor breaks out the big guns and throws the whole tackle box of unwelcome assertions at Serafina.
9: I suggest that you move to the bible belt, you would fit in much better there. Serafina sta ys mild but drops a characteristically SDN-style comparison to fundamentalist Christians.
10: And after seeing what you claim is your picture i suggest you join a rock band as the main MALE lead singer, a meatloaf parody band would be perfect, can you sing "Bat out of hell?". Kor responds to that attack with another low blow.
11: Not only are you distorting what i am saying again, but that is - and i have to use that word - sheer, unadultered hateful bigotry again. ... Ah, more - and the word is 100% appropriate - bigotry. Serafina characterises Kor's continued sexual essentialism as "hateful bigotry," and his subsequent insult as "more bigotry." I think characterising the insult as bigoted is appropriate, but classing topical disagreement as "hateful bigotry" is another matter.
12: I am insulting you cos of what you look like simply because you insulted me, i suppose you being FUGLY even as a dude is tecnically biology though.
...
You look like a young meatloaf in a frock, or at the very least a male rock fan......buy a Led Zeppelin's or Motörhead T-shirt and do a bit of headbanging, you would be great at the "whiplash" technique. You can always get chopped up and go from a fertile dude to a sterile transwoman later if it does not work out...

Kor explains that he's going to go tit-for-tat and then does so.
13: I do not like you because you are a insulting distorting manipulative liar and that is about you as a person, your desired gender, sexual preferances or foot size are irrelavant to those things. Kor explains why he doesn't like Serafina.
14: You can try to convince a fundamentalist christian that homosexuality is okay all you like, you will never have any success. But you can still argue against him, lest he might infect others with his bigotry.
Your case is pretty similar.
Serafina returns to SDN-classic mode and says that Kor is like a fundie.
15: By those just like you.

Serafina you are a sick child raping pervert.......there you go i can now claim that there have been accusations that you are a sick child raping pervert...see how easy it is?
This is actually an argumentative point. Serafina appeared to subsequently recognise it as such.
Hey you are ugly, the fact that you are a ugly mutilated guy or a ugly transwoman is not the important part. However, Kor follows it up with another low blow. To review, we've moved from accusations of bigotry and lying to psychiatrists to "ugly" and "fundie."
16: I know real women who are into dudes with long hair as well, id introduce you but i like them. Kor swipes in another quick shot to the shin.
17: ]But if you would consider them worthwhile, you would hate them. Serafina is still trying to generalise Kor's opinion of her to all transsexuals.
18: Stop living in your illness and take a look at what a lying manipulative kind of person you are. Kor being as diplomatic as usual.
19: Again, you are doing nothing but preaching hate against transsexual people and launching personal insults. Serafina's reply.
20: And i need no parenting advise from a soon to be neutered wannabe female. "Neutered" is a new one from Kor.
21: You use those words after your vast strawman and distorted post above it?.

I am done with discussing this with a deranged, obsessed, liar my points are made, confirmed by science.

Kor calls Serafina "deranged."
22: Actually i am now continuing this discussion elsewhere with individuals who are considerably more stable and honest than you, and while they do not agree with some of the things i have said they do not resort to the distortions/strawmen tactics that you do even though they are fully transitioned transexuals. Kor calls Serafina dishonest and unstable and says he's off to debate the topic with nicer transsexuals elsewhere who don't strawman his arguments.
23: I insult you because you are a deranged, manipulative, lying asshole not because you are transgendered. Kor calls Serafina an asshole.
24: Actually id say that when somebody goes to so much effort, fails to find what they want and concludes its somebody elses fault it is reasonable to conclude they need help, you really are a deranged, obsessive nut job aint ya?. Kor calls Serafina deranged again (in response to Serafina's accusation that he couldn't possibly be involved in another discussion with transsexuals elsewhere on the internet).
Serafina (warned previously twice subsequent to last ban) and Kor (warned previously once subsequent to last ban) requested a review of the behavior of the 9th-12th in the transreality thread (during a time in which I was not present on the board), and has made the assertion that both her behavior and Kor's behavior was sufficient to merit another ban. The complete record of what I deem to be potentially actionable under the rules is listed in the above quotation (with two recent additions to the list which Serafina has pointed out - correctly - that I missed).

I have disagreed, considering the extended episode not worth a full three ordinary episodes in the case of Kor or a full two ordinary episodes in the case of Serafina, but your fourth-party opinions are sought, and additionally, there is the question of how the rules should apply when I am temporarily absent from the forums (being that I am sometimes busy with work & life & other such things).

I will note first that what I have previously noted in PMs, which is to say that if a matter is urgent, that PMing me will bring my immediate attention to the forum more quickly than otherwise (because I am notified of PMs), and that reporting posts is generally a good idea to bring them to my attention when I might otherwise not read the posts at all. (Serafina had reported some ten or so posts in this period, and Kor one).

I will also note what I have noted to Serafina, which is to say that it might be time for me to appoint some form of additional staff - a proxy, informant, or moderator of sorts - if this is a significant problem with existing policy.

User avatar
Praeothmin
Jedi Master
Posts: 3920
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:24 pm
Location: Quebec City

Re: Enforcement policy notice (Serafina, Kor_Dahar_Master)

Post by Praeothmin » Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:54 pm

Both deserve a ban because they both willfully insulted the other, and baited the opposition in their "debate"...
They were in no way civil, and should be sanctioned as two people who completely ignore the rules of the board usually are: a temporary ban...

Kor_Dahar_Master
Starship Captain
Posts: 1246
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:28 pm

Re: Enforcement policy notice (Serafina, Kor_Dahar_Master)

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:26 pm

Praeothmin wrote:Both deserve a ban because they both willfully insulted the other, and baited the opposition in their "debate"...
They were in no way civil, and should be sanctioned as two people who completely ignore the rules of the board usually are: a temporary ban...
While i in no way want to deny the accusations (although i reserve the right to examine the posts in question to make sure all the insults were included and accurate) i would point out that Serafina is pushing the issue of a review and punishment (i did not request a review and considered the matter over since my last post to Mr O agreeing for it to be locked) because a ban for me would essentially be a reward for him while his ban would be irrelavant to either of us.

User avatar
Tyralak
Bridge Officer
Posts: 234
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:39 am
Contact:

Re: Enforcement policy notice (Serafina, Kor_Dahar_Master)

Post by Tyralak » Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:35 pm

Kor_Dahar_Master wrote:
Praeothmin wrote:Both deserve a ban because they both willfully insulted the other, and baited the opposition in their "debate"...
They were in no way civil, and should be sanctioned as two people who completely ignore the rules of the board usually are: a temporary ban...
While i in no way want to deny the accusations (although i reserve the right to examine the posts in question to make sure all the insults were included and accurate) i would point out that Serafina is pushing the issue of a review and punishment (i did not request a review and considered the matter over since my last post to Mr O agreeing for it to be locked) because a ban for me would essentially be a reward for him while his ban would be irrelavant to either of us.
I tend to agree. It appears to be an attempt on Sarafina's part to get Kor banned. This board means nothing to Sarafina, but she knows this is one of the main places Kor posts. Sarfina being banned from here would give her the victim card to play at SDN, but getting Kor banned would be a major victory in what her apparent goal is.

Jedi Master Spock
Site Admin
Posts: 2164
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:26 pm
Contact:

Re: Enforcement policy notice (Serafina, Kor_Dahar_Master)

Post by Jedi Master Spock » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:23 pm

Kor_Dahar_Master wrote:i reserve the right to examine the posts in question to make sure all the insults were included and accurate
I would recommend you hurry up and do so. I'm not perfect, and I may well have missed some. Serafina pointed out two of yours that I initially missed on review, and I may well have missed one or two of hers.
Tyralak wrote:I tend to agree. It appears to be an attempt on Sarafina's part to get Kor banned.
Trolling is against the board rules as well, but very difficult to prove. Would you care to build this case?
This board means nothing to Sarafina, but she knows this is one of the main places Kor posts. Sarfina being banned from here would give her the victim card to play at SDN, but getting Kor banned would be a major victory in what her apparent goal is.
I agree that it is of little consequence to her. Serafina only came here to debate one topic; Kor, WILGA, and Mr. Oragahn have all stated they are uninterested in discussing the topic further with her, which leaves her with nothing to do here. Except, apparently, to write me PMs constantly.

At the same time, though, the board rules here - minimal as they are - are part of the central purpose of this board, providing an atmosphere in which discussion will be insult-free and thus productive; and the question, then, lies in enforcement.

As written, the board's enforcement policy has an amount of leeway in it. Standard protocol calls for three warnings between each ban. The policy also allows for immediate sanction for severe or repeated offenses. While many of the posts are mild and would probably have normally flown under my radar had I been present (in particular, #3-7,#9, #13-14, #16-19, and #22 I probably would not have taken note of without a report or a request for review) there are quite a few of them, spread over the whole range of the 9th-12th.

While I am very dubious about Serafina's character and motivations (and she is clearly uncomfortable outside of a tightly regimented and regulated environment like SDN), she has a point in complaining that if the board rules don't apply while I'm away, that will encourage misbehaviour.

Kor_Dahar_Master
Starship Captain
Posts: 1246
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:28 pm

Re: Enforcement policy notice (Serafina, Kor_Dahar_Master)

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:04 am

I would recommend you hurry up and do so. I'm not perfect, and I may well have missed some. Serafina pointed out two of yours that I initially missed on review, and I may well have missed one or two of hers.

While i doubt serafina missed any of my insults and likely included a few that were not we both know that there could be another 5000 he made and the ban he would recieve for doing them would mean nothing so in fact do i not see the point wasting my time looking, but if i see any i feel were particularly bad il mention them.

However considering the content and context of the insults he listed that i made it should be noted that most were in direct reply to strawmen insults and accusations of hating "ALL" transexuals and as such were corrections and clarifications of why i disliked him as a individual. As such if the clarifications i list below are officially recognised as insults i insist that every time i was accused of hating ALL transgenders be included also as my replies were my defence against and correction of those claims.


Point 3, 5 are not insults, they are replies to his tactic of essentially claiming that he is a transgender so his words on the matter are correct.

6 and 8 are clarifications of a point (actually a strawman) he created regarding my feelings towards him (and his claim that i felt this towards all transgenders).

13 is also clarification on the reasons i do not like him (due again to a strawman creation).

15a, is again a point about mear accusations not being enough to condemn, a point that he recognised as such and not a insult.

18 is clarification of the same old point.

20 is in direct reply to insulting me as a parent, so i suppose id like that insult of his added to the list as its certainly why i introduced the new word as i recall.

21, 22, 24 are all clarifications.


10, 12, 15b, 16, and 20 are insults, 23 is clarification and a insult.
I agree that it is of little consequence to her. Serafina only came here to debate one topic; Kor, WILGA, and Mr. Oragahn have all stated they are uninterested in discussing the topic further with her, which leaves her with nothing to do here. Except, apparently, to write me PMs constantly.
In that case where do the board rules stand on harrassment as he is obviously pushing for this ban to score a victory that he failed to gain in the thread, he is essentially using the letter of the law to ignore the spirit of the law.

A temporary ban is supposedly a punishment like a driving ban but for one driver who drives sometimes multiple times every day it is a punishment, but for another who drove only once (the time of the incident) it means nothing, in fact due to the circumstances it is at least a double reward as it is punishing a person they dislike and they know that person is aware they would gain satisfaction from it.

If you can come up with a punishment that has a equal negative effect on both of us i would not bother arguing, but as it stands i would be being punished twice, once by the ban and once by knowing that he is gaining satisfaction from it. While he would not give a damn about the ban but enjoy the fact that i was inconvienienced and enjoy the fact i know he caused it.

Double punishment VS double pleasure that is not the reality of SFJ justice.

While I am very dubious about Serafina's character and motivations (and she is clearly uncomfortable outside of a tightly regimented and regulated environment like SDN), she has a point in complaining that if the board rules don't apply while I'm away, that will encourage misbehaviour.

The rules are obviously setup in regard to a available moderator policing the forum:
"Repeated misbehavior will result in progressively longer and longer bans"
as such should a linear system be applied retroactivly when it is designed to be a discoragment?.

If you had been here and moderated the thread after the first couple of insults or after the first report/PM was send and warnings/bans had been issued do you think it would have gone as far as it did?.

If the answer is no then the solution is to act like you are reading each post as if it had just been written, so in that case the first insult is the one to act upon and the rest are abberations caused by a unmoderated thread and as such ignore them.

Then i would modify the rules or add provisions regarding unusual circumstances and maybe assign a proxy mod for when you go away, Praeothmin or Mr O are certainly good choices for such a role if they would be willing.

Post Reply