Canon status of Clone Wars movie?

[2046]

New Lucas quote, continuing to play on the Trinity, but definitely including the CGI film and series and the live-action film and series in his part:

“I am the father of our Star Wars movie world - the filmed entertainment, the features and now the animated film and television series,” he says. “And I’m going to do a live-action television series. Those are all things I am very involved in: I set them up and I train the people and I go through them all. I’m the father; that’s my work. Then we have the licensing group, which does the games, toys and books, and all that other stuff. I call that the son - and the son does pretty much what he wants.” He laughs. “Once in a while, they ask a question like ‘Can we kill off Yoda?’, things like that, but it’s very loose.

“Then we have the third group, the holy ghost, which is the bloggers and fans. They have created their own world. I worry about the father’s world. The son and holy ghost can go their own way.”

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/ ... 386319.ece

[Ted C]

“I am the father of our Star Wars movie world - the filmed entertainment, the features and now the animated film and television series,” he says. “And I’m going to do a live-action television series. Those are all things I am very involved in: I set them up and I train the people and I go through them all. I’m the father; that’s my work. Then we have the licensing group, which does the games, toys and books, and all that other stuff. I call that the son - and the son does pretty much what he wants.” He laughs. “Once in a while, they ask a question like ‘Can we kill off Yoda?’, things like that, but it’s very loose.

That doesn't exactly say very much. Basically, it just reiterates the existence of multiple levels of "canon". Under the "father" category is G-Canon: the stories in which GL is directly involved. Below that is the "son" level, which is apparently part of the Star Wars continuity, but with which GL doesn't concern himself.

While I'm inclined to be a movie purist myself (adding in the TV series when it comes about), I don't see anything here that dismisses the validity of EU material in the overall Star Wars continuity.

[Who is like God arbour]

And why have you embezzled the last sentences?

• • "Then we have the third group, the holy ghost, which is the bloggers and fans. They have created their own world. I worry about the father’s world. The son and holy ghost can go their own way."

That's the important sentence because it says, that, what commonly is called the EU, as well as fanfictions, are independent from what you have called, the G-Canon.
They can go their own way, a different way than the G-Canon. What happens in it, has no meaning for what happens in the farther's world.

I think it can't get clearer. What commonly is called EU has nothing to do with the original Star Wars, but that it has borrowed some ideas from the original.

But that's not the first time, George Lucas has affirmed that concept.

You may think, that 2046 is obsessed with the classification and systematisation of canon. But fact is, that he has provided a huge amount of quotes to corroborate his opinion.

[Ted C]

I think it can't get clearer. What commonly is called EU has nothing to do with the original Star Wars, but that it has borrowed some ideas from the original.

On the contrary, I don't think he has said that the EU has "nothing to do" with the original Star Wars. He has said that he, George Lucas, doesn't keep up with Star Wars events outside of the movies and TV series. That's not the same thing as saying "these events occur in an entirely separate universe that has no relationship to mine".

[l33telboi]

The canon, as stated by Chee and Lucas, goes pretty much like this:

Father continuity (aka Film continuity): Is composed of G and T canon.
Son continuity (aka Film+EU continuity): Is composed of G, T, C and S canon.

As such, it's perfectly correct to dismiss the son continuity, as it is a separate extension from the father one. Which continuity is more canon overall? Chee simply stated that he thinks they're equal.

[Who is like God arbour]

I think it can't get clearer. What commonly is called EU has nothing to do with the original Star Wars, but that it has borrowed some ideas from the original.

On the contrary, I don't think he has said that the EU has "nothing to do" with the original Star Wars. He has said that he, George Lucas, doesn't keep up with Star Wars events outside of the movies and TV series. That's not the same thing as saying "these events occur in an entirely separate universe that has no relationship to mine".

He has only said, that they are going their own way, ergo another way than his own universe, consisting only of the movies, TV and their novelizations.
Therfore, what happens in the son or holy ghost world does not have to happen in the farther's world. Otherwise they wouldn't go their own way but the same way.

Furthermore, I will not argue with you about the exact phrasing. I'm sorry if my phrasing is not entirely correct. But it should be clear, what I have meant. It's not as if such an opinion was argued the first time.

[Mike DiCenso]

Alas, I was not able to get into the Star Wars presentations this year with the huge crowds, and ask Steve Sansweet or any of the other LF people for clarification on this. :-(
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

Alas, I was not able to get into the Star Wars presentations this year with the huge crowds, and ask Steve Sansweet or any of the other LF people for clarification on this. :-(
-Mike

Apology accepted, captain Dicenso.

*chokes Mike to death*

[ILikeDeathNote]

So I guess we haven't reached a consensus then yet?

Either way the new Clone Wars cartoon is getting interesting as far as the debate is concerned.

[Mr. Oragahn]

So, as bizarre as it is, but the Ewok movies rank beneath the novelizations of the six movies, and the CGI Clone Wars film and show also rate below those six novelizations?
There's a degree of double crossing that's getting me lost.

[l33telboi]

So, as bizarre as it is, but the Ewok movies rank beneath the novelizations of the six movies, and the CGI Clone Wars film and show also rate below those six novelizations?
There's a degree of double crossing that's getting me lost.

Not quite. The stuff made by Lucas in the novelizations are G-canon, but the stuff the author of those novels invented is C-canon. G-canon is basically just stuff that Lucas made himself.

[Mr. Oragahn]

So, as bizarre as it is, but the Ewok movies rank beneath the novelizations of the six movies, and the CGI Clone Wars film and show also rate below those six novelizations?
There's a degree of double crossing that's getting me lost.

Not quite. The stuff made by Lucas in the novelizations are G-canon, but the stuff the author of those novels invented is C-canon. G-canon is basically just stuff that Lucas made himself.

That's totally new. Is there any evidence of this? I have never seen anyone, not even a higher canon purist, claim that one would have to sort out what's from Lucas and what is not in a source which has been associated to the movies.

If that's so, we'll have to check out who wrote what in the scripts, even in TESB (did Lucas come with the Luke-Vader pater link?).

[2046]

L33tel refers to the Lucas Licensing (e.g. Chee and Licensing's "Holocron") canon distinctions. The tip-off that this is occurring is always the reference to G-Canon and T-Canon and X-canon and whatever.

Others are discussing the Lucas-The-Flannelled-One distinctions, which basically boil down to "my stuff and I claim it" and "not my stuff, or at least I'm saying so".

Technically, the argument could be made that the film novelizations could be dismissed. They sort of grandfathered their way in from older statements of canon. It also didn't hurt that there wasn't shit to work with without them.

However, Lucas seems to claim the novelizations to some extent . . . certainly we know that, whereas he lets the EU novelists and editors do their own thing for the most part, he personally line-edited the movie novelizations*. Hell, he even had his name painted over Alan Dean Foster's on the first one.

* (the six live-action ones, at least . . . not so for the CGI movie novel)

Given the Lucas claim, I maintain that the novelizations do count. However, indications are that they ought to count for less than the films or CGI series.

[l33telboi]

That's totally new. Is there any evidence of this? I have never seen anyone, not even a higher canon purist, claim that one would have to sort out what's from Lucas and what is not in a source which has been associated to the movies.

If that's so, we'll have to check out who wrote what in the scripts, even in TESB (did Lucas come with the Luke-Vader pater link?).

This is what Chee said about it:

Q: Are novelisations of the films considered G-level or C-level material?

A: In a nutshell, anything created by the author would be C-level. Anything in the the novels created by George Lucas (whether it comes from unpublished early script versions, unpublished author interviews with George, or George's revisions to the novelization manuscript) would be G-level unless contradicted by the films.

It gets a little more complicated when something is seen on-screen but not named. So the "shuura fruit" mentioned in the AOTC novel would be G because you see it in the film, although the author came up with the name.

[Who is like God arbour]

The next question would be, what from what the various people have said canon is or what as canon counts, is indeed canon or can be counted as canon.

Is binding what Chee has said about canon or what George Lucas has said about canon?

Could it be, that both have different opinions of what canon is or what counts as canon?

And if yes, whose opinion surpass the other?

If George Lucas has explained, what he sees as canon, can we simply ignore Chee's version of canon?