New Star Wars Canon Announced

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by 2046 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:48 pm

Mith wrote:Not saying you should brag--but seriously, start rubbing noses in it. :p
"It is unwise to lower your defenses!"

Over a decade ago, Curtis Saxton and his associates finally had an unprecedented opportunity to inject their beliefs in a children's book and thus make Star Wars out to be more powerful than Star Trek in what they thought to be an official, canon work. The fact that they made Star Wars utterly ridiculous and totally inconsistent as a result didn't even faze them . . . it still doesn't, in fact.

They thought they had executed a perfect coup . . . after all, people could only complain about unsportsmanlike conduct, right? But they were wrong, because that work wasn't part of the 'real' Lucas Star Wars canon, as was deduced around the same time both by yours truly and by hardcore Star Wars chronologists. In the years since, additional quotes from Lucas and others irrevocably solidified this view.

So, they failed. And it was quite maddening given how it came on what, to their mind, was the cusp of victory, or even after the initial appearance of victory. Even their EU itself soon came to mock them, what with millions of clones and a chain reaction Death Star, not to mention further unanticipated Lucas work on The Clone Wars later on.

Their poor behavior in the following years put the nails in the coffin of their view in the popular arena, what with harassment of Star Wars authors and luminaries such as Karen Traviss, Pablo Hidalgo, and others.

However, in recent years, they've been working to create a kinder, gentler inflationism. Leading this has been Brian Young, who was once as full of furious bluster but now, rather boldly, portrays himself a fragile gentleman fighting for truth against implacable fanatics. Other details contribute to this rebranding, such as the disappearance of Mike Wong from the field and the general quiet from the prime members of his inflationist haven, the StarDestroyer.Net forums.

This attempt to remake and rebrand Star Wars inflationism could very well result in another moment wherein, by hook or by crook, one of them manages to get a word or few in on some ancillary material, or maybe even author it. Recall that for the Episode III ICS they evidently couldn't put gigaton figures everywhere, and so tried to cleverly hide them in among dull boring sentences that probably struck most readers as rather senseless, but were veritable dog-whistles to number-crunchy people.

Now that it is at least ostensibly all canon, and considering that there is generally not very much interest in technological consistency amongst story-focused people as one might commonly expect to find in a "Story Group", it is entirely possible that the day may come when we find ourselves confronted with another ICS moment.

And this time, the bomb won't be so easy to defuse.

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:49 pm

2046 wrote: Now that it is at least ostensibly all canon, and considering that there is generally not very much interest in technological consistency amongst story-focused people as one might commonly expect to find in a "Story Group", it is entirely possible that the day may come when we find ourselves confronted with another ICS moment.

And this time, the bomb won't be so easy to defuse.
Exsqueeze me? o_O




On a side note, who's gonna edit wookieepedia? :D

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by 2046 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:46 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:Exsqueeze me? o_O
Going forward! It was totally right in my head, it just didn't sound that way. :-)

You're right, though, and I had indeed edited that line earlier when I took that post and blogified it.

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:25 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote:Don't even ask bro, I had to erase my post from theta's own copy-thread to post it here, where there was more activity.

Mike, use your powers. :D
Keep your shirt on, it's done. >;-)
-Mike

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:43 pm

Ooooo so sexy. ;) <3

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by theta_pinch » Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:50 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote: Don't even ask bro, I had to erase my post from theta's own copy-thread to post it here, where there was more activity.

Mike, use your powers. :D
It wasn't a copy thread; this is the copy thread. Mine was posted first.:D

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:45 pm

But this thread got all the postings in it, so it wins. ;-D
-Mike

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by 2046 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:01 am

Mith wrote:Straight from Spacebattles:

http://www.theforce.net/v3-story/frontM ... 157581.asp

Well, it seems that ICS has finally been put in its grave. I guess Darkstar's years of sticking to the movies and TV shows have finally paid off. Not saying you should brag--but seriously, start rubbing noses in it. :p
So I decided you were right in regards to one group at least… HBMC and the gang:

ST v SW Net
Just now
Someone brought up Spacebattles recently, and with the Star Wars canon news I just thought of that place.

I suppose I should feel sorry for the Spacebattles moderation staff who have *very* heavy-handedly enforced EU completism (if not complete EU override of the films (and TCW)) in debates for a decade despite clear evidence to the contrary.

I should. But, alas, I find that I really can't.

I told them a decade ago, and they only got more police-state with it. Others have said the same since, only to be punished or banned. So now, instead of minor news, it is forum- and ego-shattering for a few of the mods and trolls there. And despite my best efforts to will my care-o-meter to at least twitch, only the schadenfreude meter seems to be active.

http://facebook.com/STvSW/posts/700890486639918

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by Mike DiCenso » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:47 am

I don't think you should feel bad at all about enjoying the suffering some of these people will be going through, especially since many of them are sociopaths responsible for not only running SDN and SBC as fascistic police states, but also have dragged your good reputation through the mud as well as those of many other folks. So as far as I'm concerned, this is the karmic backlash that has been waiting for them, and she will be a helluva bitch in her fury.

By no means will they go down quietly, no cornered, and mortally wounded animal does, and I expect they will lash out in complete denial that the stake has been driven into very heart of their delusions and lies by those in an an official position to do so. In fact, based on some of the posts I've seen on some of these sites already, the excuses and spin doctoring to try and salvage at least the ICS is already well underway.

So I'm gonna grab a bucket of popcorn and kick back with you and watch while their ship sinks beneath their feet.
-Mike

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by Mike DiCenso » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:00 am

rados wrote:So can someone give me a straight answer on what is Canon now? I have been following all these developments with some confusion.

I take it as a given that the 6 films are Canon, and anything filmic in the future, but what about the Clone Wars TV shows, both 2003 and 2008 renditions, and what about all previous Star Wars TV outings, Ewok Adventures, etc.

I applaud Disney/Lucasfilm for streamlining the canon, much as Star Trek has always done, Onscreen= Canon, Offscreen= Not. Very simple, this hasn't stopped the creation of Trek novels, comics, etc and I don't think the flood of SW stories is going to ease even a trickle because of this announcement. I'm glad of it too, having found the previous "teir" Canon system totally unwieldy.

I just want to be absolutely clear on what is remaining Canon, and what is not. Anyone know for certain?

Welcome to the forums, Rados. As far as your questions are concerned, the dust is still settling on this bombshell, but it looks as though Disney has nuked everything in the EU, no exceptions, and that includes the ICS material. So everything going forward will be one unified canon which includes the current Episodes I-VI movies, TCW, and the upcoming Rebels.
-Mike

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by 2046 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:07 am

The Cost of the New Disney Canon II

Just to extend my earlier remarks, let me make the following point.

It doesn't require nefarious plotting to wind up with resurgent inflationism.

True, inflationists have long been known to massage Star Wars material to fit their vision, but there can easily be events that don't require that in the new canon. Authors and literary types are seldom ones to perform calculations of some idea or other.

Consider the fate of EU world Gholondreine-β, a waterworld which the Emperor punished by having all of its water transported off the surface and shipped to Coruscant. The duration is not known precisely, but presumably took much less than the 20 or so years which bracket "Emperor" and "shortly before the Battle of Endor" in the article.

That sounds like a good, awesome sci-fi punishment in one's head. But if you actually consider the logistics of it, it is completely absurd.

The volume of Earth's oceans is about 1.4 billion cubic kilometers . . . sure, Gholondreine could've been a much smaller planet with very little water (comparatively) actually making it a waterworld, but that's not the impression.

That's 1.4E18 cubic meters, or 1,400,000,000,000,000,000 (1.4 quintillion) cubic meters. The Death Star is about 120km in diameter, giving it a volume of about 9E14 cubic meters, or 900,000,000,000,000 cubic meters.

Do the math. That's the volumetric equivalent of about 1550 Death Stars.

By weight, you're looking at having to transport 1,400,000,000,000,000,000,000 (1.4 sextillion, or 1.4E21) kilograms to orbit, assuming 1000 kg/m^3 for water. .Even just getting it up to 200 kilometers . . . much less transporting it via hyperspace to Coruscant . . . is going to result in planet-killing levels of energy being expended.

That is to say, they wouldn't have to worry about transporting the water after awhile . . . any inefficiencies in their process of boosting the water to orbit would start to render the planet's water gaseous partway through the procedure. Hell, there'd be plenty of opportunity for inefficiencies before you're even to the boost stage to start screwing things up.

And that's the sort of thing I fear we can expect in the coming years . . . it doesn't have to be by hook or by crook.

Recall the flagrant errors of science in movies in recent years (e.g. GI Joe and the Sinking Ice Attack, as one of many examples), generally silly ideas (red matter in JJ-Trek), and so on, and I daresay that people are generally getting dumber, which is ironic in many ways. Authors are not immune to this epidemic.

Thus, I fear that it is entirely likely we'll see some utterly absurd plot point or extraneous details that the inflationists will be able to latch onto for dear life. Indeed, I'd wager JJ will give us a couple of them at least, unless JJ-Trek's absurdities were all Orci's fault.

Yes, as many argue, Star Wars is fantasy, and not "hard" science fiction. But the Lucas canon remained pretty delightfully consistent for a long while, and thus hard enough for most needs. Now that the rank of canon is truly being opened up, I think the recent news is not a cause for celebration among the anti-inflationists, whoever they may be, but may instead be a tolling of the bell.

Sorry to be a party-pooper.

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:32 am

theta_pinch wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote: Don't even ask bro, I had to erase my post from theta's own copy-thread to post it here, where there was more activity.

Mike, use your powers. :D
It wasn't a copy thread; this is the copy thread. Mine was posted first.:D
"Good artists borrow, great artists steal." :P

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:39 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:I don't think you should feel bad at all about enjoying the suffering some of these people will be going through, especially since many of them are sociopaths responsible for not only running SDN and SBC as fascistic police states, but also have dragged your good reputation through the mud as well as those of many other folks. So as far as I'm concerned, this is the karmic backlash that has been waiting for them, and she will be a helluva bitch in her fury.

By no means will they go down quietly, no cornered, and mortally wounded animal does, and I expect they will lash out in complete denial that the stake has been driven into very heart of their delusions and lies by those in an an official position to do so. In fact, based on some of the posts I've seen on some of these sites already, the excuses and spin doctoring to try and salvage at least the ICS is already well underway.

So I'm gonna grab a bucket of popcorn and kick back with you and watch while their ship sinks beneath their feet.
-Mike
Really? I mean, there are some delusionnal fools out there seriously attempting to save anything from the sinking EU and its rather dead weight ICS?
What's the excuse? Background production material, again?
Ha ha ha.
Oh, this is so sweet, I love it. Let them whine.
Please, share some links! :) :) :)

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:56 am

2046 wrote:The Cost of the New Disney Canon II

Just to extend my earlier remarks, let me make the following point.

It doesn't require nefarious plotting to wind up with resurgent inflationism.

True, inflationists have long been known to massage Star Wars material to fit their vision, but there can easily be events that don't require that in the new canon. Authors and literary types are seldom ones to perform calculations of some idea or other.

Consider the fate of EU world Gholondreine-β, a waterworld which the Emperor punished by having all of its water transported off the surface and shipped to Coruscant. The duration is not known precisely, but presumably took much less than the 20 or so years which bracket "Emperor" and "shortly before the Battle of Endor" in the article.

That sounds like a good, awesome sci-fi punishment in one's head. But if you actually consider the logistics of it, it is completely absurd.

The volume of Earth's oceans is about 1.4 billion cubic kilometers . . . sure, Gholondreine could've been a much smaller planet with very little water (comparatively) actually making it a waterworld, but that's not the impression.

That's 1.4E18 cubic meters, or 1,400,000,000,000,000,000 (1.4 quintillion) cubic meters. The Death Star is about 120km in diameter, giving it a volume of about 9E14 cubic meters, or 900,000,000,000,000 cubic meters.

Do the math. That's the volumetric equivalent of about 1550 Death Stars.

By weight, you're looking at having to transport 1,400,000,000,000,000,000,000 (1.4 sextillion, or 1.4E21) kilograms to orbit, assuming 1000 kg/m^3 for water. .Even just getting it up to 200 kilometers . . . much less transporting it via hyperspace to Coruscant . . . is going to result in planet-killing levels of energy being expended.

That is to say, they wouldn't have to worry about transporting the water after awhile . . . any inefficiencies in their process of boosting the water to orbit would start to render the planet's water gaseous partway through the procedure. Hell, there'd be plenty of opportunity for inefficiencies before you're even to the boost stage to start screwing things up.

And that's the sort of thing I fear we can expect in the coming years . . . it doesn't have to be by hook or by crook.

Recall the flagrant errors of science in movies in recent years (e.g. GI Joe and the Sinking Ice Attack, as one of many examples), generally silly ideas (red matter in JJ-Trek), and so on, and I daresay that people are generally getting dumber, which is ironic in many ways. Authors are not immune to this epidemic.

Thus, I fear that it is entirely likely we'll see some utterly absurd plot point or extraneous details that the inflationists will be able to latch onto for dear life. Indeed, I'd wager JJ will give us a couple of them at least, unless JJ-Trek's absurdities were all Orci's fault.

Yes, as many argue, Star Wars is fantasy, and not "hard" science fiction. But the Lucas canon remained pretty delightfully consistent for a long while, and thus hard enough for most needs. Now that the rank of canon is truly being opened up, I think the recent news is not a cause for celebration among the anti-inflationists, whoever they may be, but may instead be a tolling of the bell.

Sorry to be a party-pooper.
Boo bad. Well, a long tirade (I agree with) writers go for coolness and true, these days, audiences really turn even more stupid than before.
The lack of CGI porn and a certain heritage of former values had the movie industry produce rather tame movies. Today, everything's an excuse to get the more impressive, and often silly, super CGI catastrophe of the day on screen, in a race of who can best the other.
The red matter was just silly, nothing like that was needed to threaten Vulcan and Earth. The sheer size of the ship and her superiority, for once, would have sufficed. A spam of nuclear torpedoes would have been enough to send a solid message to the audience. Eventually, a lil' bit of exotism but not much would have made all that more Trekish and that would have been good.
In that sense, Into Darkness was clearly an improvement. Despite the brain fudgery induced by that tortured plot, the movie is very enjoyable. There was the super ice cube, but that was rather limited and only affected the volcano.
Ha, when you think of it, since the primitives were not freezed to death by being caught within the radius of that thing, I'd wager that the UFP's magitech device merely postponed the problem.
Worse, these guys will know pray for the big flying saucer with wings to come by the time another volcano, or the same old one, starts to budge again with hot fumes.

JJA has a very, very good visual style (http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum/view ... 862#p49862) but plot wise, it's totally st00pid and cringe worthy.
In an universe of super weapons of the week and mighty balls of death, I'm... weary of this giving the authors way too many bad influences.

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by Mike DiCenso » Thu May 01, 2014 3:18 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Mike DiCenso wrote:I don't think you should feel bad at all about enjoying the suffering some of these people will be going through, especially since many of them are sociopaths responsible for not only running SDN and SBC as fascistic police states, but also have dragged your good reputation through the mud as well as those of many other folks. So as far as I'm concerned, this is the karmic backlash that has been waiting for them, and she will be a helluva bitch in her fury.

By no means will they go down quietly, no cornered, and mortally wounded animal does, and I expect they will lash out in complete denial that the stake has been driven into very heart of their delusions and lies by those in an an official position to do so. In fact, based on some of the posts I've seen on some of these sites already, the excuses and spin doctoring to try and salvage at least the ICS is already well underway.

So I'm gonna grab a bucket of popcorn and kick back with you and watch while their ship sinks beneath their feet.
-Mike
Really? I mean, there are some delusionnal fools out there seriously attempting to save anything from the sinking EU and its rather dead weight ICS?
What's the excuse? Background production material, again?
Ha ha ha.
Oh, this is so sweet, I love it. Let them whine.
Please, share some links! :) :) :)
Just read through the link provided by Watchdog for starters:

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 5#p3835878

I mean, they're in complete and total shock and denial in that thread.
-Mike

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