New Star Wars Canon Announced

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Mith
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New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by Mith » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:06 pm

Straight from Spacebattles:

http://www.theforce.net/v3-story/frontM ... 157581.asp

Well, it seems that ICS has finally been put in its grave. I guess Darkstar's years of sticking to the movies and TV shows have finally paid off. Not saying you should brag--but seriously, start rubbing noses in it. :p

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by theta_pinch » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:00 pm

Mith wrote:Straight from Spacebattles:

http://www.theforce.net/v3-story/frontM ... 157581.asp

Well, it seems that ICS has finally been put in its grave. I guess Darkstar's years of sticking to the movies and TV shows have finally paid off. Not saying you should brag--but seriously, start rubbing noses in it. :p
I just posted that same link in other websites.

Edit: HOORAY!

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by User15079 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:13 am

So what is Canon now, can someone just give me the straight dope? Because I have been following this with some confusion. I assume of course that Star Wars Episodes I-VI are Canon but get confused about the two Clone Wars TV series...(2003) and (2008) I personally would like to see at least the 2008 one remain Canon, because I am watching it on Netflix right now and it is great, but the 2003 one was pretty damn good too.

Not to mention all the previous Star Wars TV outings...Ewoks,Droids Ewok Adventures etc... have those been tossed out?

Basically I would love a simple list of What is NOW Canon.

I applaud Disney/LucasFilm for being brave enough to do what Star Trek has been doing for years..Everything On Screen is Canon, Everything off Screen is not, it certainly hasn't stopped the tide of books, comics..etc for Trek and I don't see why it should even remotely dent the expanded universe in SW. I always thought the SW "teir" Canon system was ridiculously unwieldy...

Just want to have a clear picture here, going forward.

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by User15079 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:20 am

So can someone give me a straight answer on what is Canon now? I have been following all these developments with some confusion.

I take it as a given that the 6 films are Canon, and anything filmic in the future, but what about the Clone Wars TV shows, both 2003 and 2008 renditions, and what about all previous Star Wars TV outings, Ewok Adventures, etc.

I applaud Disney/Lucasfilm for streamlining the canon, much as Star Trek has always done, Onscreen= Canon, Offscreen= Not. Very simple, this hasn't stopped the creation of Trek novels, comics, etc and I don't think the flood of SW stories is going to ease even a trickle because of this announcement. I'm glad of it too, having found the previous "teir" Canon system totally unwieldy.

I just want to be absolutely clear on what is remaining Canon, and what is not. Anyone know for certain?

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by watchdog » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:21 pm

Just read this, I almost want to laugh but the EU had some pretty good parts to it...Hey this means that Boba Fett is dead and gone, some people aren't gonna like that. The first comment at that site was mad that he wasted 20 years of his time, you think maybe he was a warsie who relied on the EU to prove the superiority of Wars?

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:41 pm

watchdog wrote:Just read this, I almost want to laugh but the EU had some pretty good parts to it...Hey this means that Boba Fett is dead and gone, some people aren't gonna like that. The first comment at that site was mad that he wasted 20 years of his time, you think maybe he was a warsie who relied on the EU to prove the superiority of Wars?
I thing it's an EU completists who thought the EU was very high ranking and as long as it wasn't contradicted, it was totally canon and could be cited alongside any movie when enquiring for facts.
In a way, the Lucas's merchandising branch had no reason to dispute that idea and for some time the Holocron policy reflected that hierarchy with its multilayered canon.

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:43 pm

theta_pinch wrote:http://www.theforce.net/v3-story/frontM ... 157581.asp

Sounds like good news for the trek side of the debate. No more ICS or EU calculations/technology; the only official canon is the movies and TCW.
A lil' bit complicated.

There isn't even a mention of the movies' novelizations.
Yet they keep the EU, but it all becomes shoved into the Legends group, apparently non-canon.
The announcement also reveals that the first book in the new canon will be Star Wars: A New Dawn by John Jackson Miller. This book will be set before Star Wars Rebels and provide "insight into a key character's backstory, with input directly from executive producers Dave Filoni, Simon Kinberg, and Greg Weisman." Filoni will also write the book's foreword.
"First book in the new canon"?
Is it in the canon or did they mean something like "the new book alongside the new canon", or "in this new way of handling the canon"?

It's still an Expanded Universe book, although now we shall say a Legends book.
That said, saying that the new book will "provide insight into a key character's backstory", it sounds like it's still relevant, like in the old days wherein many characters and random details in the movies were fleshed out in the books.

I guess they still have to update their usual PR salesman pitch, because if the book is outside the canon, it's not really any valuable "insight" anymore, is it?
They'll still have the same problem in selling those books while knowing it's not part of a story. At this point, the "canon" imprimatur lost by the EU means these official books rank barely above fanon.

It seems the article's author has also slightly rearranged the meaning of the original announcement. Below, an extract from said original statement:
While Lucasfilm always strived to keep the stories created for the EU consistent with our film and television content as well as internally consistent, Lucas always made it clear that he was not beholden to the EU. He set the films he created as the canon. This includes the six Star Wars episodes, and the many hours of content he developed and produced in Star Wars: The Clone Wars. These stories are the immovable objects of Star Wars history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align.
Basically, acknowledging the dual canon issue, and pointing out what the canon was according to Lucas.
There is, however, no mention in the current announcement that the new canon excises the EU.
None.
Now, with an exciting future filled with new cinematic installments of Star Wars, all aspects of Star Wars storytelling moving forward will be connected. Under Lucasfilm President Kathleen Kennedy's direction, the company for the first time ever has formed a story group to oversee and coordinate all Star Wars creative development.

"We have an unprecedented slate of new Star Wars entertainment on the horizon," said Kennedy. "We're set to bring Star Wars back to the big screen, and continue the adventure through games, books, comics, and new formats that are just emerging. This future of interconnected storytelling will allow fans to explore this galaxy in deeper ways than ever before."
And read below:
On the screen, the first new canon to appear will be Star Wars Rebels. In print, the first new books to come from this creative collaboration include novels from Del Rey Books. First to be announced, John Jackson Miller is writing a novel that precedes the events of Star Wars Rebels and offers insight into a key character's backstory, with input directly from executive producers Dave Filoni, Simon Kinberg, and Greg Weisman.
It almost sounds like there can be varying forms of canon. Screen, print, etc.

It turns out that the fans in the comments are reacting to what the article's author rewrote, not what the announcement means.

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by watchdog » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:19 pm

I never followed the whole cannon/non-cannon thing very closely, the whole exercise as far as the Trek/Wars debates go tends to devolve into mental masturbation after a while.
I see that the folks on SD.net are still trying to come to grips with this announcement though, one poor soul going as far as saying that ;
"as far as I'm concerned, Luceno's PT stories are still canon."

Someone there did post a tweet from a Jennifer Heddle who said;
"It's all non-cannon, but it all exists as a resource that could be used down the line."

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 5#p3835878

This sound like all the EU stuff is out but can be mined later if someone wants to use something mentioned within, but as far as the events mentioned within...that's all out, a separate universe...now why does that sound so familiar :)

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:32 pm

Mith wrote:Straight from Spacebattles:

http://www.theforce.net/v3-story/frontM ... 157581.asp

Well, it seems that ICS has finally been put in its grave. I guess Darkstar's years of sticking to the movies and TV shows have finally paid off. Not saying you should brag--but seriously, start rubbing noses in it. :p
Ding-dong the witch is dead! Sing it high, sing it low...
Mr. Oragahn wrote:They'll still have the same problem in selling those books while knowing it's not part of a story. At this point, the "canon" imprimatur lost by the EU means these official books rank barely above fanon.
I don't think that'll be a big problem, selling officially licensed, but non-canon stories has been a big staple of the Star Trek franchise for decades now, and you don't see sales faltering there.

I think in the end, Disney/Lucasfilm will lose a few die-hard fans there, but in the end sales will stay pretty much the same, especially if there is a more tightly integrated canon going forwards from here that is internally very self-consistent as well as takes place in the "real" Star Wars universe.
Watchdog wrote:I see that the folks on SD.net are still trying to come to grips with this announcement though, one poor soul going as far as saying that ;
"as far as I'm concerned, Luceno's PT stories are still canon."
Yes, the denial will be strong with some Warsies, just as it was for Trek fandom when Roddenberry and Paramount implemented a similar canon policy over 25 years ago. So be on the lookout for James Dixon types cropping up out of the woodwork, if they didn't already exist.
-Mike

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by 2046 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:22 pm

theta_pinch wrote:
Mith wrote:Straight from Spacebattles:

http://www.theforce.net/v3-story/frontM ... 157581.asp

Well, it seems that ICS has finally been put in its grave. I guess Darkstar's years of sticking to the movies and TV shows have finally paid off. Not saying you should brag--but seriously, start rubbing noses in it. :p
I just posted that same link in other websites.

Edit: HOORAY!
Just out of curiosity, how'd y'all both miss the "Rules of Evidence" section? ;-)

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by 2046 » Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:36 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:I think in the end, Disney/Lucasfilm will lose a few die-hard fans there, but in the end sales will stay pretty much the same, especially if there is a more tightly integrated canon going forwards from here that is internally very self-consistent as well as takes place in the "real" Star Wars universe.
Indeed. I, for one, will be picking up the new stuff, whereas before I was like "meh, why?" I doubt I'm alone in this, especially with all the fuss they're making that it's a unified thing.

My only problem will come with stuff like games and comics. I really have no interest in games and I haven't read a comic since I was like ten. If important canon facts come in those forms then they're really up-nerding Star Wars.

And you just *know* there's gonna be some game/comic twerp who finds some silly thing and tries to twist it into uberroxxorz firepower or something, requiring that it be fact-checked. Hell, it took over a decade for someone to properly fact-check claims about the Dankayo myth.
Yes, the denial will be strong with some Warsies, just as it was for Trek fandom when Roddenberry and Paramount implemented a similar canon policy over 25 years ago. So be on the lookout for James Dixon types cropping up out of the woodwork, if they didn't already exist.
The difference is, historically at least, there are folks who could be much worse than Dixon.

I mean, if Chewie's death in a book prompted death threats, and if the Karen Traviss thing prompted all that nonsense, and if they were even going after Pablo Hidalgo at one point, this news has the capacity to really bring the freaks out with sniper rifles.

Seriously, just for security's sake, someone should say that there are "trespass EU-philes" on Skywalker Ranch just so the Bureau of Land Management will send 200 armed soldiers to round up any who do make it in, and set up First Amendment Zones for protesters far outside the area.

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by Who is like God arbour » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:23 pm

Mith wrote:Straight from Spacebattles:

http://www.theforce.net/v3-story/frontM ... 157581.asp

Well, it seems that ICS has finally been put in its grave. I guess Darkstar's years of sticking to the movies and TV shows have finally paid off. Not saying you should brag--but seriously, start rubbing noses in it. :p
I don't think so:
        • DaveJB wrote:
          Crayz9000 wrote:I imagine DorkStar will be doing a victory dance (by himself, of course) at the news of the death of the ICS.
          More likely the opposite - the ICS will probably be one of the few pieces of surviving EU material, since it expands on stuff seen in the films rather than providing all-new information.

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by watchdog » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:26 pm

2046, you must feel some vindication from this, Lucasfilm finally clarified this whole thing for the most part in your favor...not that I expect the warsies to accept it, people can be very good at self delusion.

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by watchdog » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:28 pm

WILGA wrote:
Mith wrote:Straight from Spacebattles:

http://www.theforce.net/v3-story/frontM ... 157581.asp

Well, it seems that ICS has finally been put in its grave. I guess Darkstar's years of sticking to the movies and TV shows have finally paid off. Not saying you should brag--but seriously, start rubbing noses in it. :p
I don't think so:
        • DaveJB wrote:
          Crayz9000 wrote:I imagine DorkStar will be doing a victory dance (by himself, of course) at the news of the death of the ICS.
          More likely the opposite - the ICS will probably be one of the few pieces of surviving EU material, since it expands on stuff seen in the films rather than providing all-new information.
My last quote illustrated perfectly, thank you. The sad thing is they really think the ICS expands on stuff SEEN in the movies. the parts of the ICU we are always debating have NEVER been seen at all that's the point.

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Re: New Star Wars Canon Announced

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:46 pm

OK, I looked at Jennifer Heddle's twitter, and it's faaaaar more convincing and definitive than the official statement.
Basically, 90% of the latest torrent of tweets confirm that the EU is non-canon and reduced to an interesting realm to tap from time to time if there's something nice to salvage.
That's a good strategy, although for EUphiles it evokes images of abused wives, always loving the one who repeatedly bruises them, eternally longing for an improbable and so rare mark of distinction and love. In other words, seeing a fan character get promoted to canon land, for example.

Thinking of it, 2048, with all that amount of official canon related tweets, you've got like some huge work at curating all that mess. I think they should pay you for that, haha.
2048 wrote:
theta_pinch wrote:
Mith wrote:Straight from Spacebattles:

http://www.theforce.net/v3-story/frontM ... 157581.asp

Well, it seems that ICS has finally been put in its grave. I guess Darkstar's years of sticking to the movies and TV shows have finally paid off. Not saying you should brag--but seriously, start rubbing noses in it. :p
I just posted that same link in other websites.

Edit: HOORAY!
Just out of curiosity, how'd y'all both miss the "Rules of Evidence" section? ;-)
Don't even ask bro, I had to erase my post from theta's own copy-thread to post it here, where there was more activity.

Mike, use your powers. :D

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