Mojo: SW Canon

[Mike DiCenso]

It's not just a matter of power sources that has to be considered in the matter of why an ISD cannot easily fly down very low into a planetary atmosphere.

Another issue would most certainly be structural, since a space-built ISD might not be made to handle the additional loading on the hull and superstructures while flying at relatively high velocities, whereas the somewhat smaller Victory, Venator, and Acclamator SDs we might speculate are within some size threshold that allows them to handle those kinds of loadings better.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

... weren't the Moncal ships submarines retrofitted into spaceships?

They surely had to take off from even below the suface of oceans.

Wasn't there an Executor-class destroyer that did take off from some planet, like Coruscant or something?

[mojo]

I can't recall ever, in the films, hearing someone specifically mention that any kind of ship can't fly in any atmosphere. I mean, we're talking about a universe in which X-Wings fly exactly the same way regardless of whether they are in the atmosphere of a planet or flying around the Death Star. A universe where you never once see anyone use any kind of spacesuit or other oxygen supply while they gallavant around on dozens of different planets with, you would assume, different types of atmospheres and air makeup. People are walking around in docking bays while spaceships fly into the station from open space, for Christ's sake. I don't think that kind of thing really comes up while Lucas is planning these movies.

[Cpl Kendall]

... weren't the Moncal ships submarines retrofitted into spaceships?

They surely had to take off from even below the suface of oceans.

Wasn't there an Executor-class destroyer that did take off from some planet, like Coruscant or something?

The older canon says that the Mon Cal ships were converted luxery liners. I believe that's been changed with the advent of the Clone Wars cartoon that shows that they've always been purpose built warships.

The Lusanyka (sp?) was buried under the capital and made orbit by way of a repulser sled.

[Mr. Oragahn]

... weren't the Moncal ships submarines retrofitted into spaceships?

They surely had to take off from even below the suface of oceans.

Wasn't there an Executor-class destroyer that did take off from some planet, like Coruscant or something?

The older canon says that the Mon Cal ships were converted luxery liners. I believe that's been changed with the advent of the Clone Wars cartoon that shows that they've always been purpose built warships.

The Lusanyka (sp?) was buried under the capital and made orbit by way of a repulser sled.

Thanks.

And the retcon still leaves room to the idea that even Moncals from the same class aren't identical? Just asking.

So basically, nothing bigger than a Victory or Acclamator can enter an atmosphere. Nothing bigger than an Acclamator can take off from the surface of a world like Coruscant.

That said...



Coupled to the Force Unleashed trailer, showing an ISD hovering over an industrial zone, a few hundreds of meters up.

More retconning in the air?

[Cpl Kendall]

Thanks.

And the retcon still leaves room to the idea that even Moncals from the same class aren't identical? Just asking.

I'm afraid I don't know. I don't follow the EU that closely, as I consider most of it dreadful garbage. But the idea that each ship in the same class is different doesn't make much sense as maintenance would be a real pain in the butt. And crew wouldn't be able to transfer very easily between ships without some retraining.

So basically, nothing bigger than a Victory or Acclamator can enter an atmosphere. Nothing bigger than an Acclamator can take off from the surface of a world like Coruscant.

I'm not 100% on this but I believe Venator class ships were seen landing in the Clone Wars cartoon.

That said...



Coupled to the Force Unleashed trailer, showing an ISD hovering over an industrial zone, a few hundreds of meters up.

More retconning in the air?

I guess that depends on whether or not this is part of game mechanics or part of the plot.

[Jedi Master Spock]

I'm not 100% on this but I believe Venator class ships were seen landing in the Clone Wars cartoon.

I'm not sure whether or not this is helpful, but Republic Attack Cruisers (as they are known in the script, a.k.a. Venator Star Destroyers in the ICS and some other sources) were seen landing and taking off in Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith.

If only the EU material released alongside the film had identified them as Victory instead of Venator class, the film would only require a retcon of the Victory's appearance (and quite possibly size, but by no more than ~25% or so in dimension).

[Cpl Kendall]

I'm not sure whether or not this is helpful, but Republic Attack Cruisers (as they are known in the script, a.k.a. Venator Star Destroyers in the ICS and some other sources) were seen landing and taking off in Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith.

Well both instances are canon although the ROTS example is higher I believe ( I tend to get my SW canon hierarcy mixed up) so either will do.

If only the EU material released alongside the film had identified them as Victory instead of Venator class, the film would only require a retcon of the Victory's appearance (and quite possibly size, but by no more than ~25% or so in dimension).

I guess it really doesn't matter, I prefer that Lucas went his own way with ship designs and designations for the PT. It gives greater variety for the universe, what we would expect from a Republic that is 25,000 years old.

[Jedi Master Spock]

I guess it really doesn't matter, I prefer that Lucas went his own way with ship designs and designations for the PT. It gives greater variety for the universe, what we would expect from a Republic that is 25,000 years old.

To wander off track on designations - which can be divisive, as the conflict between pro- and anti- Saxton fans over the meaning of "Star Destroyer" indicates:

Lucas never gives very interesting names in the material he writes* - the name Venator, like Victory, Mandator, and Tector (and even "Imperator," actually), don't actually come from Lucas. I think "Venator" was probably coined by Saxton, from the way it sounds.

The fact that there is a distinction between Victory and Venator is an issue developed solely within the EU**. The EU gets much more detailed - and starts to conflict with other detailed EU sources that were written at a different time, or by a different author, et cetera.

*E.g., "Imperial star destroyer." "Trade Federation battleship." "Republic assault ship." "Republic attack cruiser." "X wing fighter." "Twin ion engine fighter." All simple descriptions.

[Mike DiCenso]

I can't recall ever, in the films, hearing someone specifically mention that any kind of ship can't fly in any atmosphere. I mean, we're talking about a universe in which X-Wings fly exactly the same way regardless of whether they are in the atmosphere of a planet or flying around the Death Star. A universe where you never once see anyone use any kind of spacesuit or other oxygen supply while they gallavant around on dozens of different planets with, you would assume, different types of atmospheres and air makeup. People are walking around in docking bays while spaceships fly into the station from open space, for Christ's sake. I don't think that kind of thing really comes up while Lucas is planning these movies.

Actually, that's not completely true... :-)

In ROTS, towards the end when Obi-Wan along with the injured Padme meets up with Bail Organa and Yoda on Polis Massa, we can clearly see in the background during several scenes fully space-suited up base personel working outside the base.

As for the open-air docking bays, at least where the first Death Star is concerned, they get away with that due to a magnetic shield, and the bay itself must be cleared of personel during the docking process.
-Mike

[mojo]

I can't recall ever, in the films, hearing someone specifically mention that any kind of ship can't fly in any atmosphere. I mean, we're talking about a universe in which X-Wings fly exactly the same way regardless of whether they are in the atmosphere of a planet or flying around the Death Star. A universe where you never once see anyone use any kind of spacesuit or other oxygen supply while they gallavant around on dozens of different planets with, you would assume, different types of atmospheres and air makeup. People are walking around in docking bays while spaceships fly into the station from open space, for Christ's sake. I don't think that kind of thing really comes up while Lucas is planning these movies.

Actually, that's not completely true... :-)

In ROTS, towards the end when Obi-Wan along with the injured Padme meets up with Bail Organa and Yoda on Polis Massa, we can clearly see in the background during several scenes fully space-suited up base personel working outside the base.

As for the open-air docking bays, at least where the first Death Star is concerned, they get away with that due to a magnetic shield, and the bay itself must be cleared of personel during the docking process.
-Mike

My bad, I totally missed the guys in the spacesuits. You have to admit, though, that the likelihood of all these different aliens breathing the same atmosphere is astronomically small.

And as for the magnetic shield, maybe I'm completely wrong here, but wouldn't that only make sense if air were made of metal? Can a magnetic field really hold air inside of anything? I mean, it's magnetic. You may as well say it's a mashed potato shield, for all the relevance a magnet would have on air. I'm sure I'm missing something here. Could you explain it a bit for me?

[Cpl Kendall]

The obvious answer is that magnetic field is a holdover term from the past, the way turbolaser is a term for a weapon that in fact isn't a laser.

[Mike DiCenso]

mojo wrote:
My bad, I totally missed the guys in the spacesuits. You have to admit, though, that the likelihood of all these different aliens breathing the same atmosphere is astronomically small.

And as for the magnetic shield, maybe I'm completely wrong here, but wouldn't that only make sense if air were made of metal? Can a magnetic field really hold air inside of anything? I mean, it's magnetic. You may as well say it's a mashed potato shield, for all the relevance a magnet would have on air. I'm sure I'm missing something here. Could you explain it a bit for me?

Actually, the first one there shouldn't be seen as such an astronomical anomaly, especially when you consider that humans will go out and colonize planets that have the necessary life-support requirements (or are terraformable into such with relative ease), and associate with other aliens who also have the same enviromental requirements.

Furthermore, we have seen throughout the PT and the OT a number of aliens who clearly require at least some sort of life-support aid in a
terrestrial-type enviroment.

As for the magnetic field bit, I would defer to Kendall's explanation as much as any other, as well as consider that the force field which contains the atmosphere in the docking bay may have some sort of magnetic field component, perhaps as a means of blocking hazardous radiation.
-Mike

[Cpl Kendall]

As for the magnetic field bit, I would defer to Kendall's explanation as much as any other, as well as consider that the force field which contains the atmosphere in the docking bay may have some sort of magnetic field component, perhaps as a means of blocking hazardous radiation.
-Mike

This makes a fair bit of sense, as we know Earth has the Van Allen belts. A series of magnetic fields that block and absorb stellar radiation. There's no reason why a shield for a docking bay wouldn't have the same function as part of it's greater purpose. And could be part of the origin of the nickname.

[Mike DiCenso]

If that is the case, then I wonder why the redundancy of such a small-scale shielding when the Death Star itself has an overall relatively powerful magnetic shield that buffets small starfighters passing through it.
-Mike