Are the ICS books accurate?

watchdog · Post by **watchdog** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:26 pm

I dont know why my images never seem to post here but here are a couple of scans of the comics showing planetary bombardment more or less;
http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cratersff5.jpg

The first pic shows the aftermath of Thrawns attack on the planet Bpfashh

http://img463.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... r01oz5.jpg

This one is part of Thrawns little trick with cloaked ships under the planetary shield, I believe that it would not have worked if the destruction werent in keeping with known imperial abilities.

http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... werpf0.jpg

These next two are from a recent comic where Vader is searching for rebel prisoners to interrogate but a simpathizer keeps purpousfully killing them to thwart Vader. The last image is fromthe begining of the book and possibly shows a lower limit of the weapons (even though they are not at the lowest limit). There is other dialouge that may be relivant as well, when I locate my copy I'll see if it's worth scanning.

http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... r02te4.jpg

Post by **Mike DiCenso** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:39 pm

Thanks for the images, Watchdog. You can clearly see that Athega is not a black hole, nor a pulsar, or a blue supergiant star. It appears to be a rather ordinary G-type. Based on the Hertzsprung-Russell diagram:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hertzsprun ... ll_diagram

I would place this star somewhere between the K through F class.
-Mike

watchdog · Post by **watchdog** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:02 am

No problem, thats the beauty of comics. I do recall the original claim about the ISD hanging around the sun, when the hell did they start making claims about pulsars and black holes? None of which was even hinted at in the original book.On a side note I would point to how close the ships were depicted to be in the comics, and point out that on a couple of ocassions (Klingon civil war for one) we've seen trek ships hanging around the surface of some suns on different ocassions.

Post by **Mike DiCenso** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:03 pm

It was a long time ago, based on the idea that Athega must be a black hole, pulsar, A, B, or O type star since the shields of an ISD were so strong that a regular sun, like our own, could not effect them, even at close range (i.e. right above the photosphere). With the advent of the AoTC ICS, things just got even more silly, including the invention of a Trek-like technobabble particle emanating from Athega.
-Mike

GStone · Post by **GStone** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:00 am

Which part of the ICS was this?

Mr. Oragahn · Post by **Mr. Oragahn** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:47 am

GStone wrote:Which part of the ICS was this?

None as far as I know. Wayne Poe has an essay about how Athega was exotic.

Well, an essay is a big word. It's more an open mockery towards Trekkies he slaps as his fave scapegoats, but you can still filter out the points he's trying to make.

Lord Edam · Post by **Lord Edam** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:22 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote: Wayne Poe has an essay about how Athega was exotic.

Well, an essay is a big word. It's more an open mockery towards Trekkies he slaps as his fave scapegoats, but you can still filter out the points he's trying to make.

I had completely forgotten the details of that argument.

I love the idea of seven blue-giant stars forming within a few km of each other (though he didn't actually say that in the original debate. Infact, his original response was a little less idiotic than the one on his website)

trekkie: A few hundred thousand or even couple million kms aren't going to take them particularly far from the exact centre. Unless you think all seven stars and ISDs were within a few km of each other at the exact centre of the nebula.

Wayne: Not only do I believe it, but it's true

Mr. Oragahn · Post by **Mr. Oragahn** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:45 pm

Lord Edam wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote: Wayne Poe has an essay about how Athega was exotic.

Well, an essay is a big word. It's more an open mockery towards Trekkies he slaps as his fave scapegoats, but you can still filter out the points he's trying to make.
I had completely forgotten the details of that argument.

I love the idea of seven blue-giant stars forming within a few km of each other (though he didn't actually say that in the original debate. Infact, his original response was a little less idiotic than the one on his website)

trekkie: A few hundred thousand or even couple million kms aren't going to take them particularly far from the exact centre. Unless you think all seven stars and ISDs were within a few km of each other at the exact centre of the nebula.

Wayne: Not only do I believe it, but it's true

I never really tried to get his point that much. He pretty lost me when he argued that the ISD was close to those seven blue giants so her shields were under a damn strain.

However, I always had issues to picture how the ISD could be so close to those stars, implying that the stars themselves were close to each other, and yet those stars would remain on balanced orbits. The chances of this happening and, well, are slimmer than slim, right?

They'd have to spin around each other at exceptional speeds, with centrifugal forces compensating for the mutual attraction, no?

Post by **Mike DiCenso** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:33 pm

GStone wrote:Which part of the ICS was this?

It wasn't as far as I know. But it's a fanon explanation that at least some of the militant Warsies have taken on to explain how teraton/petaton absorbing shields could be brought down by being in close proximity to a mere sun.
-Mike

watchdog · Post by **watchdog** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:50 pm

And when you look at the comic it doesn't appear to be anywhere near the sun, I no longer read Mr.Poe's site, there were to many arguments that reached the wrong conclusions for me. The only one I really remember any more was when he was attempting to claim that the Borg used a laser on the Enterprise (in his attempt to prove that lasers did have an effect on the Enterprise, which was the wrong argument to make), either ignoring or forgetting that the Borg drained the shields first before using the laser. I wonder if he ever changed that? Or should I ask.

GStone · Post by **GStone** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:04 am

He'd probably ignore you, if you did.

watchdog · Post by **watchdog** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:32 am

Well he could try, but I dont get ignored easily.

GStone · Post by **GStone** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:02 am

Persistance may get you being called names very briefly, unless you made such a huge impact, you'd even outshadow Darkstar.

watchdog · Post by **watchdog** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:08 am

Not me, he has a better handle on this debate using only the films, I use the EU. I've heard some of his detractors claim that he has no scientific background, I dont know what he does for a living, but I think he has a pretty good scientific background way better than me (I have major math troubles, I dont see numbers very well).

Post by **Mike DiCenso** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:20 pm

On that subject: it's already been pointed out here a number of times that several of the prominent pro-Wars Versus debators have little or no science background (in other words, no degree of any kind), among them Wayne Poe and Brian Young. And yet the militant Wars camp looks the other way, while at the same time lambasting the pro-Trek side people for their (supposed) lack of science degrees.
-Mike