Mike DiCenso wrote:Sigh. Is there a point to this gentlemen? Either split this canon debate off of this thread, and move it to the Evidence forum where it belongs, or bring it back on track with regards to Hypermatter being contradicted by the TCW.
Well, mmm.... not sure if I'm going to open a whole new thread just for one post. So I'd rather post my reply here and make it final, no matter what. S'ry.
My initial reply had more to do with pointing out the hypocrisy and quite disgusting way he handles his own little dominion. He doesn't need to add the insult to injury. If he wants to prove again and again that he's the lord creator of everything that is, why not just be totally original, instead of pouring salt and peeing into the wounds? I'm mainly reacting on his demeanour.
The best thing we have from Lucas about some reference to a clear canon policy is his vague waving about the Paramount policy. I can't remember him using the word canon in any definitive way. He's always weaseling out, never being firm. If he were honest, he'd have made the claim eons ago, and quickly replied by the negative or the positive if the EU is lower canon or not.
And as far as I know, Paramount didn't allow a second tier creature to exist and had said creature keep claiming that all it supervised and produced was canon, albeit to a lesser degree, alongside the higher tier products.
Lucas' ways are just twisted and sick, and I'd hate writing for such a fat lard, really. Because from the point of view of the EU, which is totally owned by Lucas, everything it deems canon is
canon, and faithfully follows its oath of consistency as much as possible.
Lucas is doing something quite sadistic, in like he owns some dog and has it chained, and keeps making it salivating at some bone he doesn't throw, while asking the dog to make tricks and shouting to everyone that it's his pet, but he doesn't care if his dog is starving. The analogy isn't perfect cause the dog doesn't create anything, but the nauseating absurdity of both does stick out.
The trampling itself doesn't exactly validate the EU, but it doesn't automatically mean that if some bit of the EU is invalidated, then all of it is. Where is written? The EU's policy, which is much clearer than any vague comment Lucas made, is written like a code, a prophecy, as it will always adapt to maintain a consistency with the higher source. It acknowledges that it will always be the cart following the horse as best as it could.
This makes absolutely no sense in any reasonable way.
It basically sounds like a convoluted attempt to argue that Fett's Lucas-canon death and EU-canon life is actually not a shocking display of disparate continuities, and this argument is made exclusively by use of claptrap, gobbledygook, and psychobabble designed to confuse and confound the reader so that, by the end of it, we're supposed to think that such flagrant displays are so unimportant as to be completely ignorable.
Sorry, my good man, but Fett's dead in one source and alive at the same time in another, and as if that weren't enough we're even explicitly told that those sources are in different universes. It's not circular reasoning you're sensing there . . . it's just facts reinforcing each other, the truth bouncing between them like a pinball caught between bumpers.
It would just be a sneaky as Lucas' own salmonish stance on this. Plus for people used to time travel plots in SF, it's quite a simple concept to grasp, especially in an universe where it seems the Force follows some will and a roadmap, and will always try to get to point B from point A in the end, even if the route differs at some point.
But I agree, it's a completely unresolved situation. Sansweet tried to muddy waters back then with his talk about windows, and mentioned the Fett case but without ruling on it definitely (not to say that the canon hierarchy he used to follow has changed since then).
In all other cases, the EU does try to be faithful to the movies because that's what people consume as their SW entertainment, but clearly, the EU rejects the importance of any offhand comment made eons too late.
While technically, that could help identify dissociative continuities around that era post ROTJ, apparently neither fans nor LFL give a rat's arse about this obscure comment.
Perhaps instead of playing who's your daddy games, he should have vetoed the return of Fett from the beginning, or at least pointed out that there started an alternate continuity. But nope.
I'd be tempted to say too late George, you had your chance, but you clearly owe too much to the EU now to backpedal, and now you're only hurting your brand with those silly acts. You just have no respect for the work of other creative authors. He's just too happy having kids buy the juicy merchandising. Of course he'll never shoot down the entirety of the EU in some big, glaring and indisputable way.
Did you just attempt to slyly claim that the Holocron policy is immune to Lucas?
Yes. Why not? :)
If that were not the case, he'd have provided a clear cut answer to the canon question with a five words long reply. The fact that he cannot reject the whole of the EU means he is stuck with it, has to deal with it, and therefore his bastard child is part of his family, even if he doesn't like it.
Perhaps he should have been pro abortion from the get go (j/k).
The Holocron maintained by a guy who admitted dual continuities?
Did this guy ever say that the movie continuity was different from the greater EU one though?
Wasn't it just a way to identify the higher canon, as, you know, this is the movie continuity and we stick to it as our EU continuity encompasses all?
After all, when there's a hierarchy in canon, anyone can speak of a rank-centric continuity. Even more so that identifying a continuity doesn't automatically mean it's hermetic and not solvable into other continuities. :)
And did you also make more of that Fett = Totally Unimportant argument by declaring him obscure, second-hand, and faceless?
Unimportant? No. But I certainly pointed out that Publishing doesn't care, and I think no one on Earth except like twelve nerds give a shit either.
Frankly, the guy would probably get more respect for any little fart he let loose if he didn't act like a douchebag, really.
Everybody knows Fett, chief . . . Fett took off as a character. That's why he was included in the prequels, and like 9000 EU books.
Everyone knows Fett. My mom does. Few know about Lucas' own old quote though.
Anyway, while I do appreciate your mixture of "declare it unimportant" and "confuse them till they give up!" . . . they were mixed as well as any, though they were individually perhaps a little too obvious . . . I really don't see how it changes anything. Even if Lucas were to declare what was or wasn't canon in his universe to be based entirely on your ennui, that would still mean there was a his-universe.
Actually my ennui largely grows out of this silly double speak from His Lardy One. Contrary to what you think, if he had come out clearly on the question yeaaaars ago, nothing of that would have ever happened.
He didn't, serves him right. Unless he does something really stupid, he'll probably let his family exploit his franchise once he'll be in the grave, and I doubt his family will bother keeping on with his inane retarded dance. You can't even tell what is the true merchandising here. Is it the movies or the toys?
You did a good job with your canon website, but this has gone way beyond sanity and I'm tired of it. So as a final fuck off to his ludicrous ways and just because
, even if logic fails, I'll ignore what he says because he doesn't really deserve it anymore. The guy who made the original SW probably died a long time ago, devoured from within by some parasitic lipidic Overload.