Star Wars: Canon, the EU, and the Rampaging Lucas

For all your discussion of canon policies, evidentiary standards, and other meta-debate issues.

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Re: Star Wars: Canon, the EU, and the Rampaging Lucas

Post by User1601 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:52 pm

Picard wrote:TCW/TFU or not, movies are highest canon, so I don't know why these two would be concern. If part of it doesn't agree with movies, that part isn't canon, rest is canon, and game over. (EU itself is not canon either way, so it's even less concern).
Yeah, but TFU has things like Galen Marek pulling a Star Destroyer down from the sky, so now the EU-wankers will be saying that objects of that size or bigger can be moved by Jedi.

How can you contradict that? By saying Yoda and Vader/Anakin couldn't do it? They'll say "they didn't believe they could" and "in the movie, Yoda said that hte size of the object doesn't matter except in their minds, so it doesn't contradict" etc. So they'll claim that the only limits on Jedi-power are mental.

Then we'll have Jedi moving planets, stars, galaxies etc. since they'd have us believe that Jedi are only limited by themselves, so if they just get drunk and think they can move the Universe, then by golly it'll happen.

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Re: Star Wars: Canon, the EU, and the Rampaging Lucas

Post by Picard » Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:47 pm

They are claiming feats from EU even althought we know EU isn't canon, so there would not be much change.

But to be honest, it reminds me of people telling that STO is canon, althought it was clear that only on-screen evidence counts as part of Star Trek canon.

I also found that GL said that outside of movies and their novelizations, nothing is canon.

Plus, it might be worth to take a look at this:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/933156-s ... 453?page=1

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Re: Star Wars: Canon, the EU, and the Rampaging Lucas

Post by User1601 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:01 am

Picard wrote:They are claiming feats from EU even althought we know EU isn't canon, so there would not be much change.

But to be honest, it reminds me of people telling that STO is canon, althought it was clear that only on-screen evidence counts as part of Star Trek canon.

I also found that GL said that outside of movies and their novelizations, nothing is canon.
Well to be accurate, he said that he doesn't read it, and so it's a different universe; however it is C-canon.

But if he creates it, then that policy clearly wouldn't apply.

Now I for one can't believe for one SECOND, that TCW is film-verse, i.e. that the Clone Wars involved Anakin getting a Tagruta-brat padawan who helped him rescue Jabba the Hutt's slug-baby, or that Jabba had a Truman-Capote cousin who spoke English rather than Huttese and smoked a hookah.
Nor can I believe any of the other "Super Friends" crap that happens in TCW series-- in fact it's so dumb I can't stand it.

But however I may hate it, I have to admit that "it's not my train-set," and so Lucas can do what he wants no matter how absurd or stupid; unlike the Talifans over at EU, I'm not going to kidnap George Lucas and hobble him like Kathy Bates (or stab him in the shower like her brother Norman).

So the question comes down to whether Lucas is including TCW and TFU in the EU, or the film-verse.
Last edited by User1601 on Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Star Wars: Canon, the EU, and the Rampaging Lucas

Post by Khas » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:48 am

Picard wrote:They are claiming feats from EU even althought we know EU isn't canon, so there would not be much change.

But to be honest, it reminds me of people telling that STO is canon, althought it was clear that only on-screen evidence counts as part of Star Trek canon.

I also found that GL said that outside of movies and their novelizations, nothing is canon.

Plus, it might be worth to take a look at this:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/933156-s ... 453?page=1
STO counts as "soft-canon", which means that where it and the movies/TV shows contradict, the movies and TV shows take precedence. It is the only piece of ST material to fall into this category.
SpaceWizard wrote:
Picard wrote:They are claiming feats from EU even althought we know EU isn't canon, so there would not be much change.

But to be honest, it reminds me of people telling that STO is canon, althought it was clear that only on-screen evidence counts as part of Star Trek canon.

I also found that GL said that outside of movies and their novelizations, nothing is canon.
Well to be accurate, he said that he doesn't read it, and so it's a different universe; however it is C-canon.

But if he creates it, then that policy clearly wouldn't apply.

Now I for one can't believe for one SECOND, that TCW is film=verse, i.e. that the Clone Wars involved Anakin getting a Tagruta-brat padawan who helped him rescue Jabba the Hutt's slug-baby, or that Jabba had a Truman-Capote cousin who spoke English rather than Huttese and smoked a hookah.
Nor can I believe any of the other "Super Friends" crap that happens in TCW series-- in fact it's so dumb I can't stand it.

But however I may hate it, I have to admit that "it's not my train-set," and so Lucas can do what he wants no matter how absurd or stupid.

So the question comes down to whether Lucas is including TCW and TFU in the EU, or the film-verse.
As far as I know, the film-verse. On the plus side, these actually help the Pro-Trek side. Pathetic SW cap ship firepower, an ISD being knocked out of orbit by a cannon that fires junk, and, the fact that according to Lucas, Galen Marek is the most powerful Force-sensitive to ever live. And considering that Marek's abilities in TFU were nowhere near as wank-tastic as the EU stuff, this is actually a very good thing.

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Re: Star Wars: Canon, the EU, and the Rampaging Lucas

Post by User1601 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:26 pm

Khas wrote:
SpaceWizard wrote: So the question comes down to whether Lucas is including TCW and TFU in the EU, or the film-verse.
As far as I know, the film-verse. On the plus side, these actually help the Pro-Trek side. Pathetic SW cap ship firepower, an ISD being knocked out of orbit by a cannon that fires junk, and, the fact that according to Lucas, Galen Marek is the most powerful Force-sensitive to ever live. And considering that Marek's abilities in TFU were nowhere near as wank-tastic as the EU stuff, this is actually a very good thing.
But if it's film-verse, then it helps the pro-Wars side, since they can claim it's higher canon (not that it ever stopped them before, but still).

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Re: Star Wars: Canon, the EU, and the Rampaging Lucas

Post by User1601 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:26 pm

Khas wrote:
SpaceWizard wrote: So the question comes down to whether Lucas is including TCW and TFU in the EU, or the film-verse.
As far as I know, the film-verse. On the plus side, these actually help the Pro-Trek side. Pathetic SW cap ship firepower, an ISD being knocked out of orbit by a cannon that fires junk, and, the fact that according to Lucas, Galen Marek is the most powerful Force-sensitive to ever live. And considering that Marek's abilities in TFU were nowhere near as wank-tastic as the EU stuff, this is actually a very good thing.
But if it's film-verse, then it helps the pro-Wars side, since they can claim it's higher canon (not that it ever stopped them before, but still).

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Re: Star Wars: Canon, the EU, and the Rampaging Lucas

Post by User1601 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:29 pm

Khas wrote:
SpaceWizard wrote:So the question comes down to whether Lucas is including TCW and TFU in the EU, or the film-verse.
As far as I know, the film-verse. On the plus side, these actually help the Pro-Trek side. Pathetic SW cap ship firepower, an ISD being knocked out of orbit by a cannon that fires junk, and, the fact that according to Lucas, Galen Marek is the most powerful Force-sensitive to ever live. And considering that Marek's abilities in TFU were nowhere near as wank-tastic as the EU stuff, this is actually a very good thing.
But if it's film-verse, then it helps the pro-Wars side, since they can claim it's higher canon (not that it ever stopped them before, with their EU-completist obsession; but still).

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Re: Star Wars: Canon, the EU, and the Rampaging Lucas

Post by User1601 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:29 pm

Khas wrote:
SpaceWizard wrote:So the question comes down to whether Lucas is including TCW and TFU in the EU, or the film-verse.
As far as I know, the film-verse. On the plus side, these actually help the Pro-Trek side. Pathetic SW cap ship firepower, an ISD being knocked out of orbit by a cannon that fires junk, and, the fact that according to Lucas, Galen Marek is the most powerful Force-sensitive to ever live. And considering that Marek's abilities in TFU were nowhere near as wank-tastic as the EU stuff, this is actually a very good thing.
But if it's film-verse, then it helps the pro-Wars side, since they can claim it's higher canon (not that it ever stopped them before, with their EU-completist obsession; but still-- after all, they've never let hypocrisy stop them either).

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Re: Star Wars: Canon, the EU, and the Rampaging Lucas

Post by Khas » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:46 pm

It helps the Pro-Wars side only in the sense in that it gives them more stuff to go on. It hurts them in that the displays of firepower and Force-power aren't nearly what the ICS and EU say. Not by a long shot.

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Re: Star Wars: Canon, the EU, and the Rampaging Lucas

Post by User1601 » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:27 am

Khas wrote:It helps the Pro-Wars side only in the sense in that it gives them more stuff to go on. It hurts them in that the displays of firepower and Force-power aren't nearly what the ICS and EU say. Not by a long shot.
The EU shows a Force-user pulling a Star-Destroyer down from the sky, like Galen Marek does in TFU?

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Re: Star Wars: Canon, the EU, and the Rampaging Lucas

Post by Khas » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:42 am

Compared to some of the stuff in the EU, that's mild. And Marek was under considerable stress while doing it.

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Re: Star Wars: Canon, the EU, and the Rampaging Lucas

Post by Admiral Breetai » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:58 am

SpaceWizard wrote:
Khas wrote:It helps the Pro-Wars side only in the sense in that it gives them more stuff to go on. It hurts them in that the displays of firepower and Force-power aren't nearly what the ICS and EU say. Not by a long shot.
The EU shows a Force-user pulling a Star-Destroyer down from the sky, like Galen Marek does in TFU?
Exar kun an EU sith lord had the power to eject peoples souls from their bodies do anime style alchemy and the ability to telepathically freeze thousands of people and defeat a Jedi master so powerful he could enhance a stick to where it could easily challenge a lightsaber

Naga Sadow blew up stars with the scan shown in the comic as being him gesturing and kablowyyyy Nilhious is basically a mini Unicron and so on

and when EUphiles realized these old guys I'm talking about made luke and sidious look like small children they stalked harassed and bullied until..well like I said luke started killing cthuluesque gods..and stuff

he's not nearly as bad as the knee jerk butthurt EUphiles made the writers make sidious and luke

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Re: Star Wars: Canon, the EU, and the Rampaging Lucas

Post by Khas » Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:03 pm

Also, in "Dark Empire", ol' Palpy created a Force storm that obliterated a New Republic fleet. Suddenly, pulling down an ISD from low-atmospheric flight doesn't seem that outrageous.

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Re: Star Wars: Canon, the EU, and the Rampaging Lucas

Post by Admiral Breetai » Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:45 am

Khas wrote:Also, in "Dark Empire", ol' Palpy created a Force storm that obliterated a New Republic fleet. Suddenly, pulling down an ISD from low-atmospheric flight doesn't seem that outrageous.
that's the same book where han shoots him in the back and he jobs out to some fetus's? gotta love EU force users

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Re: Star Wars: Canon, the EU, and the Rampaging Lucas

Post by Khas » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:42 pm

Yep.

IIRC, some authors actually objected to this treatment of the Force as a God-like superpower, the great Timothy Zahn being one of them.

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