What does LFL keep straight between canons?

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Praeothmin
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Re: What does LFL keep straight between canons?

Post by Praeothmin » Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:32 pm

UniveralNetguru wrote:That's not debating, it's wanking.
Coruscant exists in the G-canon, because it was shown in the G-canon; however there's no logic in claiming that every EU-wank regarding Coruscant therefore exists in the G-canon as well!
That's why Lucas said it's 2 universes: i.e. the G-universe Coruscant, and the E-Universe corsuscant which has planetary shields.
Corsucant was first mentioned and described as a city planet, center to the Republic/Empire, in one of Timothy Zahn's books, namely "Heir to the Empire".
Lucas used the same planet, and depicted it exactly as Zahn had...
So Lucas went in the EU, selected a part of it he liked or wanted, and used it in the movies.
The same Lucas who apparently has nothing to do with the EU, and never reads any of the stuff, or doesn't care about it.
Well, he seems to care enough to use it as inspiration sometimes, doesn't he...
That's called a "false contrapositive."
Continuation by the T-canon, does not imply continuity within the G-canon. In other words, RotS does not subsume the events or stats of TCW movie or series, it's a different universe still... thank God.
Ok, let me make this real simple for you:
Lucas's involvement on TESB:
-Produced;
-Pitched ideas of what he wanted to happen;
-Did not write the script, did not direct;

Lucas's involvement in TCW movie and series:
-Produced;
-Pitched ideas of what he wanted to happen;
-Did not write the script, did not direct;

By your failed logic, TESB isn't part of the movie Canon either.
"Oh wait", you're going to say, "it's a movie, so of course it's part of it"...
Well, so was the first "episode" of TCW, it came out as a movie, so then, movie Canon as well... :)
mainly since the films prove that ST could kick warsie-butt across the universe :D
Actually, the movies show SW kicks ST's but across the universes... :P

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Re: What does LFL keep straight between canons?

Post by Mike DiCenso » Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:51 pm

UniveralNetguru wrote:That's not debating, it's wanking.
Coruscant exists in the G-canon, because it was shown in the G-canon; however there's no logic in claiming that every EU-wank regarding Coruscant therefore exists in the G-canon as well!
That's why Lucas said it's 2 universes: i.e. the G-universe Coruscant, and the E-Universe corsuscant which has planetary shields.
Praeothmin wrote: Corsucant was first mentioned and described as a city planet, center to the Republic/Empire, in one of Timothy Zahn's books, namely "Heir to the Empire".
Lucas used the same planet, and depicted it exactly as Zahn had...
So Lucas went in the EU, selected a part of it he liked or wanted, and used it in the movies.

The same Lucas who apparently has nothing to do with the EU, and never reads any of the stuff, or doesn't care about it.
Well, he seems to care enough to use it as inspiration sometimes, doesn't he...
Not true, Praeo. From the offical Star Wars site's Databank:


Behind the Scenes
The earliest incarnation of Coruscant appeared in the rough draft scripts of Star Wars, when the Imperial capital world was known as Alderaan. Subsequent rewrites briefly changed its name to Granicus before dropping it from the A New Hope storyline altogether.

The Imperial capital world was resurrected in the draft scripts for Return of the Jedi, this time as Had Abbadon. The script described a city-covered planet plagued by pollution and home to the Emperor's throne. Practical considerations of realizing this planet on screen, as well as the evolving storyline of Episode VI, resulted in the capital world again being abandoned.

Author Timothy Zahn gave Coruscant its name in his 1991 novel, Heir to the Empire. When it came time to finally unveil the galactic capital on the big screen in the revamped ending of the Return of the Jedi Special Edition release, Lucas adopted the name Coruscant.


The name is used, but the concept of a city-covered planet is all George's, which in turn was likely taken from Asimov's Foundation Series and Empire Series as the Galactic Empire's central capital ecumenopolis world of Trantor. Other sources have pointed out that Lucas had to have Timothy Zahn's name for the planet pointed out to him, or he likely would never have known about or considered it at all.
-Mike
Last edited by Mike DiCenso on Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What does LFL keep straight between canons?

Post by Praeothmin » Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:53 pm

I stand corrected then... :)

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Re: What does LFL keep straight between canons?

Post by User1462 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:06 am

Praeothmin wrote:
UniveralNetguru wrote:That's not debating, it's wanking.
Coruscant exists in the G-canon, because it was shown in the G-canon; however there's no logic in claiming that every EU-wank regarding Coruscant therefore exists in the G-canon as well!
That's why Lucas said it's 2 universes: i.e. the G-universe Coruscant, and the E-Universe corsuscant which has planetary shields.
Corsucant was first mentioned and described as a city planet, center to the Republic/Empire, in one of Timothy Zahn's books, namely "Heir to the Empire".
Lucas used the same planet, and depicted it exactly as Zahn had...
So Lucas went in the EU, selected a part of it he liked or wanted, and used it in the movies.
The same Lucas who apparently has nothing to do with the EU, and never reads any of the stuff, or doesn't care about it.
Well, he seems to care enough to use it as inspiration sometimes, doesn't he...
That's called a "false contrapositive."
Continuation by the T-canon, does not imply continuity within the G-canon. In other words, RotS does not subsume the events or stats of TCW movie or series, it's a different universe still... thank God.
Ok, let me make this real simple for you:
Lucas's involvement on TESB:
-Produced;
-Pitched ideas of what he wanted to happen;
-Did not write the script, did not direct;

Lucas's involvement in TCW movie and series:
-Produced;
-Pitched ideas of what he wanted to happen;
-Did not write the script, did not direct;

By your failed logic, TESB isn't part of the movie Canon either.
"Oh wait", you're going to say, "it's a movie, so of course it's part of it"...
Well, so was the first "episode" of TCW, it came out as a movie, so then, movie Canon as well... :)
mainly since the films prove that ST could kick warsie-butt across the universe :D
Actually, the movies show SW kicks ST's but across the universes... :P
Oh, GREAT comeback-- now I hav to say "Oh, YEAH?"

Ok, you warsies need to learn something with regard to the SW franchise:

LUCAS IS GOD. YOU ARE NOT.
That mans that he is ALL-POWERFUL: i.e. he can do whatever the fudge he wants, and you have NO power to second-guess him-- NO MATTER WHAT.
NONE.
ZIP.
ZERO.
NOTHING.
NADA.
BUPKIS.
ZILCH.

Clear enough?
So put away all your strutting, posturing, barracks-room lawyering to try to put words in God's mouth: he did not say what you want him to say, and that's that.
Deal with it-- and I mean by some way besides raving denial and pseudo-intellectual dogma.
And by "movies," we're talking THE SIX. NOT the 'toons... just because they continued the movies, does NOT prove the reverse.

And not one of the movies shows anything that could touch the Federation-- not even those ticking time-bomb monstrostiies; hell, Archer was toasting those giant marshmallows way back in the day-- so Kirk would eat those eggs for breakfast.

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Re: What does LFL keep straight between canons?

Post by The Dude » Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:07 am

lol

Yeah he may well be the god of his universe and I've maintained for years that he can run it into the dirt if he wants but I'm under no obligation to consider every little thing canon. Cause heres the thing; he can't actually enforce it outside of his corporation. Canon wank annoys me to no end and if I think that Greedo firing first or those idiotic rings are crap, then I don't have too.

I love having my own personal canon. Because quite frankly, over half the franchise is utter shite.

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Re: What does LFL keep straight between canons?

Post by User1462 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:30 am

Greedo's different, since an artist can't take something back! Once they published it a certain way, it sticks-- that's the law of contracts EVERYWHERE, i.e. you can't alter it after the fact without permission.

But we're talking here about things that Lucas said from DAY 1, like that the novels are an entirely different universe, and so the fanwankers can't come in and say it's part of the same universe that they wanked over in the movie-theater like Pee Wee Herman.

Sure they wanna believe that, since wankers want to believe their EU-porn, but that's just tough noggies because THAT'S NOT THE WAY IT IS!

So we got a whole cult at SDN who thinks that Leeland Chee is Lucas's messenger to Mike Wong, who talks to him and ONLY to him; since Wong says that anyone who disagrees with him based on Lucas or Chee quotes is a liar and infidel, since Wong say sthat ONLY HE'really knows" what Chee means when he says a cherry-picked isolated line that validates the EU-Completist theory-- while anyone who disagees, "thinks they know more than Chee, who would know what Lucas thinks."

Ok, let's step back and see what he's saying:
He READS a Chee-quote, and then claims that anyone who disagrees with Wong's interpretation of it, "thinks they know more than Chee, who would know best what Lucas thinks."

So clearly, Wong thinks he can read Chee's mind, and that Chee can read Lucas's-- and therefore he develops the same cult-mentality as Al Queda when they say that Allah spoke to Mohammed, and that Mohammed speaks to them-- and that anyone who reads the Koran differently so as to disagree, is an infidel that should be dstroyed by Jihad.

This fits perfectly with their cult-mentality, and why they can read Lucas quotes just like Al Queda reads the Koran to mean anything they want, no matter what it REALLY says; and that's also why SDN engages in cyber-terrorism against anyone who disagrees with their little CULT.

And they use the same logic as terrorists, i.e. THROW BOMBS.
And that's all they do! Sure they PRETEND to debate logically, but the second you disagree, KA-BOOM!!!
9/11 every day.
That's why G2K said "how I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb," since he realized that you can't fight terrorists with one hand behind your back-- even if they're wankers who TYPE one-handed anyway, there's too many of them.
In fact I'm amazed at how he handles all those SDN-Queda terrorists at once, and he's their "Great Satan."
IBut that just illustrates the irrational mindset of the EU-fanwankers, and how it's similar to other cult-dogma: i.e. you either accept it, or they ALL turn on you.

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Re: What does LFL keep straight between canons?

Post by The Dude » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:35 am

Man, I think you need to relax. It's just a show.

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Re: What does LFL keep straight between canons?

Post by User1462 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:40 am

Yes, I know it's just a show, and you know it's just a show, but we're dealing with people who DON"T know it's just a show-- and that's WHY it's a cult.
And that's something we can't ignore just because it's insane; we have to recognize Warsie-troll fanwankers when we see them, and not get tricked into debating them in good faith.
That's all I'm saying-- i.e. that we need to accept the reality of who we're dealing with, and not pretend that they're rational people like we WANT them to be.
That's wishful thinking, and if they fool us twice then shame on US.

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Re: What does LFL keep straight between canons?

Post by The Dude » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:54 am

Dude, they know damn well its a show (theres even a tongue in check movement on SDN about it). They just assign more importance to the hobby then they really should.

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Re: What does LFL keep straight between canons?

Post by User1462 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:52 am

The Dude wrote:Dude, they know damn well its a show (theres even a tongue in check movement on SDN about it). They just assign more importance to the hobby then they really should.
Well it's clearly a cult-mentality-- SW is a cult-movie, and THEY'RE the cult-- and the EU iis their dogma.

You got a like to this "movement?" Because the only one I've seen on there is a CULT movement, and the only thing "tongue-in-cheek" is saying something like "A TIE-figher couldn't take out the entire federatlion by itself-- JUST KIDDING, HA HA!"

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Re: What does LFL keep straight between canons?

Post by Who is like God arbour » Fri Dec 24, 2010 7:14 am

UniveralNetguru wrote:Greedo's different, since an artist can't take something back! Once they published it a certain way, it sticks-- that's the law of contracts EVERYWHERE, i.e. you can't alter it after the fact without permission.
I'm not sure that I understand what you are trying to explain. And I'm not sure that I want to understand what you are trying to explain.
But one thing is clear: This has nothing to do with » law of contracts EVERYWHERE « because (1) there is no contract between George Lucas and me or any other consumer and (2) the » law of contracts « are different everywhere.
The German contract law is very different from the English contract law. For example: The abstraction principle dominates the entire German contract law and is vital for its understanding but is at the same time totally unknown in English contract law.

But it is possible that you are thinking of the exhaustion doctrine. Under the exhaustion doctrine, the first unrestricted sale of a patented item exhausts the patentee's control over that particular item. In other words, it is a concept in intellectual property law whereby an intellectual property owner will lose or "exhaust" certain rights after the first use of the subject matter which is the subject of intellectual property rights. For example, the ability of a trademark owner to control further sales of a product bearing its mark are generally "exhausted" following the sale of that product.

But I think that it is more than questionable if the exhaustion doctrine really forbids George Lucas to change canonical events in Star Wars.

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Re: What does LFL keep straight between canons?

Post by The Dude » Fri Dec 24, 2010 7:50 am

UniveralNetguru wrote:
The Dude wrote:Dude, they know damn well its a show (theres even a tongue in check movement on SDN about it). They just assign more importance to the hobby then they really should.
Well it's clearly a cult-mentality-- SW is a cult-movie, and THEY'RE the cult-- and the EU iis their dogma.

You got a like to this "movement?" Because the only one I've seen on there is a CULT movement, and the only thing "tongue-in-cheek" is saying something like "A TIE-figher couldn't take out the entire federatlion by itself-- JUST KIDDING, HA HA!"
Jesus Christ buddy, relax.

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Re: What does LFL keep straight between canons?

Post by mojo » Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:40 am

The Dude wrote:
UniveralNetguru wrote:
The Dude wrote:Dude, they know damn well its a show (theres even a tongue in check movement on SDN about it). They just assign more importance to the hobby then they really should.
Well it's clearly a cult-mentality-- SW is a cult-movie, and THEY'RE the cult-- and the EU iis their dogma.

You got a like to this "movement?" Because the only one I've seen on there is a CULT movement, and the only thing "tongue-in-cheek" is saying something like "A TIE-figher couldn't take out the entire federatlion by itself-- JUST KIDDING, HA HA!"
Jesus Christ buddy, relax.
HAHA!

the dude abides!

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Re: What does LFL keep straight between canons?

Post by Trinoya » Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:21 am

That's all I'm saying-- i.e. that we need to accept the reality of who we're dealing with, and not pretend that they're rational people like we WANT them to be.
That's wishful thinking, and if they fool us twice then shame on US.
There are tons of rational people both at Stardestroyer.net AND at Spacebattles who are pro-wars...

The way you make it sound we are apparently at war with these people... that's a clear cut way to never find the truth nor engage in effective debate. Since you gave me a 'gift' earlier, I'll give you one right now:

Credibility is all you have in these debates. Go around accusing your opposition of being some sort of cult... not a good way to generate any, and goes a long way to say something about your own mentality and willingness to change your opinion.

It's called FANaticism for a reason, after all.

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Re: What does LFL keep straight between canons?

Post by User1462 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:54 pm

TROLL! TRINNOYA IS A TROLL FOR SDN!!
Last edited by User1462 on Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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