Cut scenes

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Lucky
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Cut scenes

Post by Lucky » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:28 am

What is the canon level of scenes that ended up on the cutting room floor?

Mike DiCenso
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Re: Cut scenes

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:14 pm

My understanding is that deleted scenes from scripts or from the final filmed version of the movies are canon, so long as they do not contradict anything in the final theatrical cut.
-Mike

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Re: Cut scenes

Post by Lucky » Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:48 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:My understanding is that deleted scenes from scripts or from the final filmed version of the movies are canon, so long as they do not contradict anything in the final theatrical cut.
-Mike
So they are T-canon like the novels and Tv shows?

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Re: Cut scenes

Post by Praeothmin » Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:47 pm

Lucky wrote:
Mike DiCenso wrote:My understanding is that deleted scenes from scripts or from the final filmed version of the movies are canon, so long as they do not contradict anything in the final theatrical cut.
-Mike
So they are T-canon like the novels and Tv shows?
Actually, they're more likely CUT-Canon... ;)

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Re: Cut scenes

Post by Lucky » Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:55 am

Praeothmin wrote:
Lucky wrote:
Mike DiCenso wrote:My understanding is that deleted scenes from scripts or from the final filmed version of the movies are canon, so long as they do not contradict anything in the final theatrical cut.
-Mike
So they are T-canon like the novels and Tv shows?
Actually, they're more likely CUT-Canon... ;)
?I don't get it?

Praeothmin
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Re: Cut scenes

Post by Praeothmin » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:26 pm

Since LFL Canon policy applies terms like G-Canon, C-Canon, etc...

They are "CUT" scenes...

They are thus "CUT-Canon"... ;)

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Re: Cut scenes

Post by User1460 » Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:52 am

Lucky wrote:What is the canon level of scenes that ended up on the cutting room floor?
When has it ever mattered?
For example, in AotC, there was a cut-scene where Obi-wan takes the saber-dart to the research-droids, and they tell him that it must have been made by a bounty-hunter, since there's no record of it in the data-files; so Obi-wan takes it to Dex.
This scene of course was unnecessary, since Obi-wan learns nothing; and so instead, Obi-wan simply tells Dex that the droids told him nothing about it-- and therefore research-droids are clearly part of the canon from their hearsay.
Later, Dooku has Padme and Anakin in a briefing-room after they surrender to Jango Fett, who is also in the briefing-room with them. This was cut, because they didn't want to reveal to the audience that Dooku was a bad guy yet.

So where was there a scene that made a material difference, such that it would change canon? Did Yoda move a planet or something? I didn't see anything that would make a difference.

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Re: Cut scenes

Post by Mike DiCenso » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:32 pm

Padathrawn wrote:When has it ever mattered?
See my post on the IH's destruction being the result of fuel being ignited in one cut scene. The sudden, unexpected break-up makes more sense that way.

For politics, in ANH, the cut Luke-Biggs conversation has this little juicy bit:

LUKE: I know, but he's got enough vaporators going to make the place
pay off. He needs me for just one more season. I can't leave him now.

BIGGS: I feel for you, Luke, you're going to have to learn what seems
to be important or what really is important. What good is all your
uncle's work if it's taken over by the Empire?...You know they're
starting to nationalize commerce in the central systems
...it won't be
long before your uncle is merely a tenant, slaving for the greater
glory of the Empire.

LUKE: It couldn't happen here. You said it yourself. The Empire won't
bother with this rock.

BIGGS: Things always change.


Oh wait! What's this... nationalize commerce... as in the Empire is taking over businesses both big and small. This sounds a lot like socialism on an extreme scale, maybe even... communistic? I'll bet certain pro-Wars folks don't want you to think too much, or even think at all about that. Or better still, they'd rather you not know that exists. This scene is pretty closely duplicated in the novelization, and does not in any real way contradict or is contradicted by anything else.
-Mike

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Mr. Oragahn
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Re: Cut scenes

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:05 pm

The problem with cut canon is when one bit from the movies is cut... just to appear in the novelization or the illustrated novelizations.

See the sequence with Anakin and Obi-Wan slicing a way through the bowels of the Invisible Hand and landing in some cave full of fuel? It's present in the illustrated novel of ROTS. Is it canon, then?
Mike DiCenso wrote:For politics, in ANH, the cut Luke-Biggs conversation has this little juicy bit:

LUKE: I know, but he's got enough vaporators going to make the place
pay off. He needs me for just one more season. I can't leave him now.

BIGGS: I feel for you, Luke, you're going to have to learn what seems
to be important or what really is important. What good is all your
uncle's work if it's taken over by the Empire?...You know they're
starting to nationalize commerce in the central systems
...it won't be
long before your uncle is merely a tenant, slaving for the greater
glory of the Empire.

LUKE: It couldn't happen here. You said it yourself. The Empire won't
bother with this rock.

BIGGS: Things always change.


Oh wait! What's this... nationalize commerce... as in the Empire is taking over businesses both big and small. This sounds a lot like socialism on an extreme scale, maybe even... communistic? I'll bet certain pro-Wars folks don't want you to think too much, or even think at all about that. Or better still, they'd rather you not know that exists. This scene is pretty closely duplicated in the novelization, and does not in any real way contradict or is contradicted by anything else.
-Mike
Not surprising. The way the Senate is handled in SW is very close to the Soviet bureaucracy. And the nationalization of business beyond the prime needs that a government should provide to its people is a "good" sign that it's being Stalinist Communism in space. It's not canon, but the fact that Lucas had planned to have the Empire be that thing is rather amusing.

Mind you, the hypertaxation of trade routes by a global governing authority is going that way, although at the time of TPM, it's more like the European Union. Heck, Valorum, who may look like Van Rompuy, was obviously much more noble than his Belgian counterpart, considering how he was emotionally hit in the balls when Padmé requested a destitution of the Chancellor.

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Who is like God arbour
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Re: Cut scenes

Post by Who is like God arbour » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:43 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:What's this... nationalize commerce... as in the Empire is taking over businesses both big and small. This sounds a lot like socialism on an extreme scale, maybe even... communistic?
Be careful!
Not every state which » nationalize commerce « is a socialistic or communistic state. After all, there were many states in the recent history of mankind with a » nationalized commerce « that were neither socialistic nor communistic. The sad thing is that many stupid people believe that these states were socialistic or communistic and that therefore socialism or communism has to be as it was in these states.
But a » nationalized commerce « is even possible in states which are not trying to pretend to be socialistic or communistic.

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Re: Cut scenes

Post by Praeothmin » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:22 pm

We have sociolized Hydro-electricity in Quebec, yet we are not communist, we are Socio-Capitalists: we take from the rich and we give... to the other rich who are friends of the party in power... :)

Oh, and we give a bit to the poor as well...

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Mr. Oragahn
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Re: Cut scenes

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:14 pm

Praeothmin wrote:We have sociolized Hydro-electricity in Quebec, yet we are not communist, we are Socio-Capitalists: we take from the rich and we give... to the other rich who are friends of the party in power... :)

Oh, and we give a bit to the poor as well...
And the middle class? AND THE MIDDLE CLASS DAMMIT???

Oh, that's right. It doesn't exist anymore. :(

Praeothmin
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Re: Cut scenes

Post by Praeothmin » Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:56 pm

To be fair, the middle class in Quebec pays so many taxes that we are basically "upper-class" poors... :)

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