Star Trek Canon...

For all your discussion of canon policies, evidentiary standards, and other meta-debate issues.

Discussion is to remain cordial at all times.
User avatar
Mr. Oragahn
Admiral
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:58 am
Location: Paradise Mountain

Re: Star Trek Canon...

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sat Aug 28, 2010 1:42 am

What's hard to get KSW?
You own nothing.
Simple. And support your claims btw. "I say so" and capitals may work where you live, but it utterly fails here.

Mike DiCenso
Security Officer
Posts: 5836
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:49 pm

Re: Star Trek Canon...

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:12 pm

KirkSkywalker wrote:
Mike DiCenso wrote:Which supports your assertion... how?
-Mike
PERFECTLY.

In that case, please elaborate, or concede the issue.
-Mike

User avatar
Mr. Oragahn
Admiral
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:58 am
Location: Paradise Mountain

Re: Star Trek Canon...

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:39 pm

It seems things may change when it comes to The Animated Series (TAS).

Try:

"The Animated Series" paramount canon

Mike DiCenso
Security Officer
Posts: 5836
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:49 pm

Re: Star Trek Canon...

Post by Mike DiCenso » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:53 am

Was that intented to be a quote, or a link to something?
-Mike

User avatar
Praeothmin
Jedi Master
Posts: 3920
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:24 pm
Location: Quebec City

Re: Star Trek Canon...

Post by Praeothmin » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:46 pm

A Google-search phrase...

And the Wikipedia article on TAS says that on June 27, 2007, Star Trek's official site incorporated information from The Animated Series into its library section, maintaining the fact that TAS is canon.

User avatar
Mr. Oragahn
Admiral
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:58 am
Location: Paradise Mountain

Re: Star Trek Canon...

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:58 pm

Yes, it's the entire query you can copy and paste.
The latest statements about the canonical status of TAS could mean it may have to be treated as canon. It seems that it's stated in the TAS DVD box set, somewhere either in the box or during some commentaries or a bonus that it's taken as such.
The official website's position on this may mean that TAS is now canon.

The Dude
Jedi Knight
Posts: 546
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:28 pm

Re: Star Trek Canon...

Post by The Dude » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:29 pm

Theres your personal forcefields then.

Mike DiCenso
Security Officer
Posts: 5836
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:49 pm

Re: Star Trek Canon...

Post by Mike DiCenso » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:29 pm

That can't be right since I own the TAS DVD box set, and nowhere in any of the commentary tracks does it say that TAS is canon, only that parts of it are incorporated into the canon, like Spock's background from "Yesteryear". But TAS as a whole was decanonized by Roddenberry himself back when he still had control of the franchise, so that's good enough for me.
-Mike

Mike DiCenso
Security Officer
Posts: 5836
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:49 pm

Re: Star Trek Canon...

Post by Mike DiCenso » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:37 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote: The official website's position on this may mean that TAS is now canon.
The website always included TAS information, so I don't buy that arguement, either. And Wikipedia seems to agree that TAS is still overall non-canon:

"Another factor that contributes to blur the line between canon and non-canon is the fact that some writers like to include elements from popular non-canon works into canon episodes.[6] Such is the case, for instance, of several concepts that first appeared in the Animated Series' episode "Yesteryear", including The Forge and the city of ShiKahr, and which were later included in the Enterprise three-part story that started with "The Forge".[7] However, despite the fact that elements borrowed from the Animated Series are considered canon, the series itself remains decidedly non-canon."[8]

So, you'll have to find something more concrete to go with here, if you want to convince me that it has been canonized.
-Mike

User avatar
Mr. Oragahn
Admiral
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:58 am
Location: Paradise Mountain

Re: Star Trek Canon...

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:17 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote: The official website's position on this may mean that TAS is now canon.
The website always included TAS information, so I don't buy that arguement, either. And Wikipedia seems to agree that TAS is still overall non-canon:

"Another factor that contributes to blur the line between canon and non-canon is the fact that some writers like to include elements from popular non-canon works into canon episodes.[6] Such is the case, for instance, of several concepts that first appeared in the Animated Series' episode "Yesteryear", including The Forge and the city of ShiKahr, and which were later included in the Enterprise three-part story that started with "The Forge".[7] However, despite the fact that elements borrowed from the Animated Series are considered canon, the series itself remains decidedly non-canon."[8]

So, you'll have to find something more concrete to go with here, if you want to convince me that it has been canonized.
-Mike
The part you quoted is written by someone who is not related to the production or ownership of Star Trek. It's hardly conclusive.
The page about TAS claims that TAS material appeared on the website on June 27 2007, going against the idea that it's always been there.

We can look at Memory Alpha, which states:

"With the release of The Animated Series DVD, the studio appears to have changed its stance, and is leaning towards the animated series being part of established Star Trek canon."

The evidence is three links which don't lead to the pages they used to lead:
http://www.startrek.com%2Fstartrek%2Fview%2Fhelp%2Ffaqs%2Ffaq%2F676.html
http:/www.startrek.com%2Fstartrek%2Fview%2Fnews%2Feditorials%2Farticle%2F17178.html
http://www.startrek.com%2Fstartrek%2Fview%2Fstore%2Fnews%2Farticle%2F35135.html

That said, after further research, it seems to be nothing more than MA's own decision to treat it as possible canon.
It may even be an attempt at sending a message at Paramount (or is it CBS?).
See:

"And what about The Animated Series?

With the release of The Animated Series DVD collection, the studio appears to have changed its stance, and is now leaning towards the animated series as part of established canon.

While TAS had originally been officially declared "apocryphal" by the studio, the studio and Memory Alpha consider it to be too important to simply ignore. TAS was created by the same people as TOS, and is certainly not completely incompatible with the live-action shows. In short, Memory Alpha considers The Animated Series to be canon. "


This review of the DVD box set says that there's a section in the box that addresses that question. Later in the review, the author tackles the canon question, but instead of quoting the stuff from the box, it seems to be nothing more than his opinion.

And there is this (courtesy of AES):
From 2006 to 2010 the following more elaborate explanation could be found at startrek.com:
    • "As a rule of thumb, the events that take place within the live-action episodes and movies are canon, or official Star Trek facts. Story lines, characters, events, stardates, etc. that take place within the fictional novels, video games, the Animated Series, and the various comic lines have traditionally not been considered part of the canon. But canon is not something set in stone; even events in some of the movies have been called into question as to whether they should be considered canon! Ultimately, the fans, the writers and the producers may all differ on what is considered canon and the very idea of what is canon has become more fluid, especially as there isn't a single voice or arbiter to decide. Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry was accustomed to making statements about canon, but even he was known to change his mind.

      In the publishing world, there used to be two exceptions to the novel rule: the Jeri Taylor-penned books 'Mosaic' and 'Pathways.' Many of the events in these two novels feature background details of the main Star Trek: Voyager characters and were to be considered as references by writers on the show. Now that the show is over, some of those events may never be incorporated into a live action format, so the question of whether details from these novels remain canon is open to interpretation.

      With regard to the Animated Series, there are a few details from the episode 'Yesteryear,' written by D.C. Fontana, that reveal biographical background on Spock and planet Vulcan. Details from this episode have been successfully incorporated into the canon of Star Trek (such as in 'The Forge') and now that the Animated Series is out on DVD, we hope that even more can make its way in!"

Note that the definition is overall watered down. While the canonicity of some events in the movies (obviously because of fan reactions to "Star Trek V") is suddenly questioned, TAS is said to be slated to become canon (following a fan vote at startrek.com). Another article at the site confirms this intention, and the TAS DVD special features even assure the viewers of the full canonicity of the series. Something of further interest is that at startrek.com suddenly canon is stated to be a question of if and when something from the previously non-canon realm is incorporated into a canon series. This practice may work out well for the people who make Star Trek, and in its ultimate consequence it would remove the need to care about canon at all. But it makes the decision if and where to draw a line increasingly complicated for the archivists and hence essentially for the fans.
What poll?

Post Reply