Just out of curiosity, does anyone have the following stats?

[ILikeDeathNote]

That is, maintenance and upkeep costs and advertising/other revenue brought in by the various vs. sites, including this one.

Also, some up-to-date traffic figures since the numbers in the dedicated thread for that appear to be obsolete.

It's my understanding that SB.com has the luxury of being under the umbrella of a network of commercial sites, so that would probably be the most stable.

I don't know about SDN though - it looks like the upkeep would be pretty big, and being strictly a fan site it's probably not going to be bringing in as much ad revenue as it would have if it were under a commercial umbrella like SB.com, not to mention it's my understanding that Wong has had a significant career change some time since starting SDN's message boards. Plus the fact that the main site has not been updated in over 4 years seems pretty telling to me; it seems like Wong has simply decided to let the forum members do the contributions and the forum become the main focus of the site.

Also quite curious about "lower-end" sites, including (no offense) this one.

[Jedi Master Spock]

600-700 distinct IPs making requests a week seems pretty normal for my site. Like SDN, most of the activity these days is on the forum. I really haven't been updating the main website for quite some time.

My top four sources of traffic in the past year have been, in order, www.Google.com, bbs.stardestroyer.net, www.ST-v-SW.net, and www.Google.hr.

We don't hit our economy bandwidth limit (ever - this is all small-file stuff, 90% of the bandwidth used is .php files for the forum and wiki) so hosting costs around $100 a year if we include the domain name by proxy registration fees in that total. We have no ads here, so advertising revenue doesn't take up any of that, but I don't feel terribly put out by the cost.

[ILikeDeathNote]

My top four sources of traffic in the past year have been, in order, www.Google.com, bbs.stardestroyer.net, www.ST-v-SW.net, and www.Google.hr.

Interesting! No doubt at least word of what we do here gets around there quite a bit.

We don't hit our economy bandwidth limit (ever - this is all small-file stuff, 90% of the bandwidth used is .php files for the forum and wiki) so hosting costs around $100 a year if we include the domain name by proxy registration fees in that total. We have no ads here, so advertising revenue doesn't take up any of that, but I don't feel terribly put out by the cost.

Hmmm, I personally wouldn't mind, or at least would be understanding, if you put up ads here. Gotta pay for it all somehow, and $100 extra bucks in your pocket per year wouldn't hurt, especially in blahblahthiseconomy.

[2046]

My info is rather old, but:

The SDN forum eats about 50 gigabytes per month in bandwidth. The rest of the site probably has little more traffic than we do.

He runs his own server in order to support the requirements of the board. (Webhosting companies will give you tons of hard drive space and bandwidth, but when it comes to actual processor resources they suddenly get very stingy. A board like SDN requires a metric buttload of RAM and processor power.)

He has/had a dedicated commercial wireless broadband connection to his home which is the equivalent of two T-1s (2 x 1.5M up and down . . . A fairly standard DSL connection in the US might give you 1.5 down, but only 256k upstream, which would be precisely opposite what you'd want as a server.) He also has a DSL connection to the home for personal use . . . the 3meg pipe is strictly for SDN.

The cost of the 3meg commercial pipe runs something like $1800 (US) yearly, maybe a bit more now depending on exchange rates. Costs for server parts and upgrades could match that, but would more likely be 1/3rd to 1/2 that figure depending on how frugal he is versus how much he wants the server to be smokin' hot. I'm not counting his labor in that, which comes in over and above his extensive forum participation.

Wong has claimed that the site pays for itself and the server. However, he has only done so when trying to declare folks like JMS and I obsessed while he of course is not, despite his sinking far more capital into the enterprise than JMS and I combined. So, I personally would require much more convincing on that point.

600-700 distinct IPs making requests a week seems pretty normal for my site. Like SDN, most of the activity these days is on the forum. I really haven't been updating the main website for quite some time.

That's not too bad. I haven't really updated in ages, and readership has been in decline as a result. I get 200-300 unique IPs per day, but that's way down from 2006ish. I figured I'd get a significant upswing from the CGI series and movie, but without updating it hasn't materialized, and I just don't have the time these days.

Not sure what the losses are due to the split of canon stuff to CanonWars.com . . . that hosting package doesn't give traffic, and it hasn't been a priority to get any.

Similarly, I have plenty of bandwidth room leftover per month, I'm only filling up a quarter of my allotted drive space, and pay $32.97 quarterly, or $131.88 per year.

I did briefly put an ad up once and got like twenty bucks off of it, but I figure it's generally better to avoid raising the eyebrows of the respective franchise legal departments.

[Jedi Master Spock]

I'm not counting his labor in that, which comes in over and above his extensive forum participation.

If I counted my labor in writing the original articles and administrating the forum, my costs would go way up. Even if I paid myself close to minimum wage, I spend more than 20 hours per year on the site.

I did briefly put an ad up once and got like twenty bucks off of it, but I figure it's generally better to avoid raising the eyebrows of the respective franchise legal departments.

I figure that the amount of time I would spend setting up and troubleshooting ads (and re-troubleshooting them every time I overhaul the site) is not worth the little it would take off of the cost of hosting.

[ILikeDeathNote]

The cost of the 3meg commercial pipe runs something like $1800 (US) yearly, maybe a bit more now depending on exchange rates. Costs for server parts and upgrades could match that, but would more likely be 1/3rd to 1/2 that figure depending on how frugal he is versus how much he wants the server to be smokin' hot. I'm not counting his labor in that, which comes in over and above his extensive forum participation.

Wong has claimed that the site pays for itself and the server. However, he has only done so when trying to declare folks like JMS and I obsessed while he of course is not, despite his sinking far more capital into the enterprise than JMS and I combined. So, I personally would require much more convincing on that point.

That's pretty interesting - the cost of maintaining the forums alone can be as high as four grand a year. The only ads I see on his site are a single Google banner ad each for the main site and the forums, so unless he took a lesson from Reagan's book and managed to conjure up some voodoo economics, or unless he really has that many people donating to his PayPal account, I find it hard to believe the site comes anywhere near paying for itself.

That's not too bad. I haven't really updated in ages, and readership has been in decline as a result. I get 200-300 unique IPs per day, but that's way down from 2006ish. I figured I'd get a significant upswing from the CGI series and movie, but without updating it hasn't materialized, and I just don't have the time these days.

Interesting, I would like to hear more about this CGI movie.

[2046]

I'm not counting his labor in that, which comes in over and above his extensive forum participation.

If I counted my labor in writing the original articles and administrating the forum, my costs would go way up.

Oh indeed, but I figured that server maintenance costs were sort of separate from site administration and the 'creative work'.

Administering and writing and wasting time watching shows while pretending to be doing research is part and parcel of what we do. However, once you find yourself with a screwdriver in hand you've moved well beyond the realm of most normal website upkeep.

Not sayin' it's a bad thing, I just figured that was above-and-beyond extra cost that one could tabulate if one so chose.

[2046]

Interesting, I would like to hear more about this CGI movie.

Clone Wars . . . given that there are two SW TV series by that name and a live action Star Wars series is on the horizon, I find it easier to refer to it as the CGI series.

[ILikeDeathNote]

Interesting, I would like to hear more about this CGI movie.

Clone Wars . . . given that there are two SW TV series by that name and a live action Star Wars series is on the horizon, I find it easier to refer to it as the CGI series.

Oh, I assumed it was an original CGI series you were working on!

[Mike DiCenso]

The cost of the 3meg commercial pipe runs something like $1800 (US) yearly, maybe a bit more now depending on exchange rates. Costs for server parts and upgrades could match that, but would more likely be 1/3rd to 1/2 that figure depending on how frugal he is versus how much he wants the server to be smokin' hot. I'm not counting his labor in that, which comes in over and above his extensive forum participation.

Wong has claimed that the site pays for itself and the server. However, he has only done so when trying to declare folks like JMS and I obsessed while he of course is not, despite his sinking far more capital into the enterprise than JMS and I combined. So, I personally would require much more convincing on that point.

That's pretty interesting - the cost of maintaining the forums alone can be as high as four grand a year. The only ads I see on his site are a single Google banner ad each for the main site and the forums, so unless he took a lesson from Reagan's book and managed to conjure up some voodoo economics, or unless he really has that many people donating to his PayPal account, I find it hard to believe the site comes anywhere near paying for itself.

I don't know. How much can you net (and how often) in terms of income from running a single banner, regardless of it's source? The only other source after PayPal donations that I can think of off-handedly would be from folks who actually pay that $5 hotmail registration fee for having a non-ISP account. But that's a one time only payment, yes? And that probably wouldn't bring in all that much income given most people aren't likely to want to do that in the first place.
-Mike

[ILikeDeathNote]

How much can you net (and how often) in terms of income from running a single banner, regardless of it's source?
-Mike

Apparently $20 a month to a year, according to above posts.

[Mike DiCenso]

Twenty dollars per month would add up to $240 a year. This presumes that all banner ads are set at a fixed rate, and that there are no banners that bring in more or less than that amount.

It would certainly pay the bill (or nearly so) in RSA or JMS' case, plus maybe net a tidy little profit that can be sunk back into upgrades or paying the monthy DSL/broadband service costs, ect.

Needless to say, it does not come anywhere near the other costs of maintaining his (Wong's) server for the forum and website.
-Mike

[The Corporal]

Twenty dollars per month would add up to $240 a year. This presumes that all banner ads are set at a fixed rate, and that there are no banners that bring in more or less than that amount.

It would certainly pay the bill (or nearly so) in RSA or JMS' case, plus maybe net a tidy little profit that can be sunk back into upgrades or paying the monthy DSL/broadband service costs, ect.

Needless to say, it does not come anywhere near the other costs of maintaining his (Wong's) server for the forum and website.
-Mike

IIRC (it was a good while ago) Mike mentioned that the costs associated with SDN ran around 1000$ or so a year after donations and ads. I don't think it's setting him back in a significant way. He has enough income to support a family of four, send one child to a special school and go to the US for vacation every year.

Honestly though, I'm not sure why it matters what he pays. It's his cash and he's free to spend it as he wishes. Obviously he gets some sort of satisfaction from running the board, even if he has been largely absent for the last six months or so.

[ILikeDeathNote]

Nevermind, it was a stupid post to begin with, and it's pretty clear Corporal is not keeping his membership on SDN a secret anyway.

Though I have to admit I still find the tone interesting. I did not mean to cause any offense, just curious as it is a big community, and I haven't met very many fanatical or zealous denizens of any forum so I find it hard to believe that there are enough people willing to donate that much, but I guess I stand corrected.

[The Corporal]

Nevermind, it was a stupid post to begin with, and it's pretty clear Corporal is not keeping his membership on SDN a secret anyway.

I'm Cpl Kendall over there and on DITL. I was here as well but I...ah changed my password a while back and couldn't be arsed to recover it.

Though I have to admit I still find the tone interesting. I did not mean to cause any offense, just curious as it is a big community, and I haven't met very many fanatical or zealous denizens of any forum so I find it hard to believe that there are enough people willing to donate that much, but I guess I stand corrected.

I think you'll find that the fanatacism of the long time VS participates has faded over the last couple of years, guys like Wayne Poe have completely left it and many long time members of SDN have simply moved on. Most of the recent posts in the SW vs ST forum have come from new members or in some cases "attention whores".

I expect it to pick up slightly when the new Trek movie airs and the live action SW series starts up but only slightly. I think most of the "old timers" have found other things to do.