The Darksaber Argument

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Kazeite
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Post by Kazeite » Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:03 pm

It seems to me that Ozzel simply didn't thought that Rebels had any shield generators :)

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Post by Socar » Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:36 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:As we've seen with both Star Trek and Star Wars, shields can collapse, with some energy "bleedthrough" occuring as the shields are overwhelmed and take damage.
This would seem to conflict with Veers' statement that the shield was strong enough to deflect "any bombardment". Perhaps Vader was using "clean" in a different context.
Kazeite wrote:It seems to me that Ozzel simply didn't thought that Rebels had any shield generators :)
Which of course wouldn't make any sense given that the shield generator is exactly what the probe droid showed them earlier in the movie. Even if he was THAT incompetent and failed to realize this, you would think someone else would point that out to him.

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Post by watchdog » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:55 am

I cant even begin to guess what the plan of attack was assuming they even had one, the imperials bring the idea of incompetence to a new level. Course the funny thing is that many warsies appear to share the same level of tactical deficiency as their heroes the imps, just look at all of MW's strategies and tactics for an example.
Really, coming in and landing ground troops was really the best plan, Vader just likes killing off admirals is all. If they had any kinds of good sensors they would have detected that big ol' ion cannon on the surface, they could have deployed their fleet in such a way as to prevent being hit by the cannon and as to prevent ships from escaping. For that they would have needed good range and coverage for their weapons, if they had that, then other ISD's could have stopped that rebel transport from escaping despite the loss of that first ISD to the ion cannon. I also wonder at the lack of air cover, I know the rebels had to convert their speeders to the cold, but that should not have been a problem for TIE fighters which normaly fly in a much colder climate, outer space. The Empire has an undeserved reputation militarily speaking, although the comics and novels do redeme them somewhat.

Kazeite
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Post by Kazeite » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:08 am

Socar wrote:
Kazeite wrote:It seems to me that Ozzel simply didn't thought that Rebels had any shield generators :)
Which of course wouldn't make any sense given that the shield generator is exactly what the probe droid showed them earlier in the movie.
Um, no, that was power generator(s), not shield generator.

"Through the cockpit window, Veers and his pilot can see the Rebel power generators in the distance."

"VEERS: Yes, Lord Vader. I've reached the main power generator."

"Inside his walker, General Veers prepares to fire on the Rebel power generators.

"VEERS: Distance to power generators?"

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Mr. Oragahn
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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:44 pm

Kazeite wrote:
Socar wrote:
Kazeite wrote:It seems to me that Ozzel simply didn't thought that Rebels had any shield generators :)
Which of course wouldn't make any sense given that the shield generator is exactly what the probe droid showed them earlier in the movie.
Um, no, that was power generator(s), not shield generator.

"Through the cockpit window, Veers and his pilot can see the Rebel power generators in the distance."

"VEERS: Yes, Lord Vader. I've reached the main power generator."

"Inside his walker, General Veers prepares to fire on the Rebel power generators.

"VEERS: Distance to power generators?"
Hey, I like the way this topic is derailing.

But let's stop it here. I'm starting a new thread with all these references about shields, Hoth and power generators.
Please wait.

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:56 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:
As we've seen with both Star Trek and Star Wars, shields can collapse, with some energy "bleedthrough" occuring as the shields are overwhelmed and take damage.
Socar wrote:
This would seem to conflict with Veers' statement that the shield was strong enough to deflect "any bombardment". Perhaps Vader was using "clean" in a different context.
It's too odd and ambigous a statement to say what exactly Veers means here. It could even be that he means shooting at a funky angle under the shield for all that we know.
-Mike

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Mr. Oragahn
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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:16 am

Praeothmin wrote:And if a lone ISD really could "slag an entire world" in less then 1 hour, as they claim, then why not build 1 million ISD's, instead of 1 single Death Star.

A quote from Tarkin:
"Fear will keep the systems in line... Fear of this Battle Station!"

If an ISD was so powerful, would they really need a Death Star?
I think the worlds would already be fearful enough of the Empire.
Don't you?
Correct that. :)

I saw that the Venator's reactors are rated as able to output 3.6 e24 W.
Yottawatts. 860 teratons per second.

Now, read this:

From Wookieepedia's article:
The Venator-class's eight heavy dual turbolaser turrets were its main weapons and had two tracking modes. In its precise, long-range tracking mode, the DBY-827 could hit a target vessel at a range of 10 light minutes. During close-range fights, the turrets could rotate in three seconds with their fast-tracking mode.[5] In terms of firepower, these weapons rivaled the main battery on the later Imperial-class Star Destroyers.

The DBY-827 had seven different power settings. This allowed the Venator's pilots and gunners to select a range of destruction, from a small strike to a vaporizing blow. As a true warship, the Venator-class Star Destroyer could divert almost all of its reactor output to its heavy turbolasers when needed. As a result of this, a flotilla of these could break through the shields of a Trade Federation warship with ease.[5]
This, I think, is directly taken from the ROTS:ICS.

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Praeothmin
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Post by Praeothmin » Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:58 pm

Notice how the exerpt you posted states that "a flotilla" of such warships could break through a TF Battleship's shields with ease, not just one vessel...
Wow, they're very powerful indeed if they have trouble punching through a "converted" merchant ship's shields... :)

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Mr. Oragahn
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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:39 am

Praeothmin wrote:Notice how the exerpt you posted states that "a flotilla" of such warships could break through a TF Battleship's shields with ease, not just one vessel...
Wow, they're very powerful indeed if they have trouble punching through a "converted" merchant ship's shields... :)
They'd rather reply by saying that the vast room on these ships has been used to stack even more reactors and shield generators.
But yes, if warships purely designed, well, for war, are able to dump all the energy their reactor produce into their cannons, and yet still require to blast through the defenses of a retrofitted cargo, there's something fishy.

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