Cylons invade Star Trek

Did a related website in the community go down? Come back up? Relocate to a new address? Install pop-up advertisements?

This forum is for discussion of these sorts of issues.
Lucky
Jedi Master
Posts: 2239
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:28 pm

Cylons invade Star Trek

Post by Lucky » Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:15 am

http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/ ... ek.333704/
Battlegrinder Post# 18 wrote: What kind of yield do Cylon KE weapons have? I ask because UFP shields are actually rather weak against KEWs (compared to their performance against DEWs), so they Cylons might not be as screwed as you think.
An unsubstantiated claim that is likely based on cherry picking, and going completely uncontested, sad.

Problems with this claim:
1) It requires everyone to be stupid, and not exploit an easily exploited weakness

2) You'd have to ignore DS9: The Ship, and Voyager: Once Upon a Time where we see ships hit inert matter and come out undamaged. They actually beary themselves underground(3 kilometers in one case)

3) You need to rely on second rate visual effects of ships hitting each other.

4) You need to ignore the fact that TNG: Hero Worship showed that powerful gravity fields like the standard shields, navigational deflectors, and warp fields hitting the shields will tare the ship apart like we see in the shotty visual effects in DS9.
Battlegrinder Post# 18 wrote: Right, because trek's uber sensors were of such use against the not even remotely human Founders.
Why would sensors have trouble identifying a shape shifter who can turn into light and flame, or perfectly mimic a life form down to the molecular biology?

User avatar
Praeothmin
Jedi Master
Posts: 3920
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:24 pm
Location: Quebec City

Re: Cylons invade Star Trek

Post by Praeothmin » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:51 pm

My fanfic shows what happens and I tried to be as realistic as possible...

The Cylons are screwed...

User avatar
Mr. Oragahn
Admiral
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:58 am
Location: Paradise Mountain

Re: Cylons invade Star Trek

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:20 pm

Wow. Cylons do what?
The only way the Cylons could be dangerous would be to number like in the millions.
At least with their very impressive FTL drives, they could nuke-spam cities, bases, other outposts even before the most powerful Starfleet ships could lift a finger.
Then, all Raiders would need to be equipped with nukes and literally hug-jump the Starfleet ships and shoot, shoot and shoot again. A ship like the Galaxy would probably need to be surrounded by hundreds of nuke-ready Raiders and other Heavy Raiders.
At least a pre-retcon Basestar would have actually carried that many Raiders.
Perhaps a fine tactic would be to try jumping inside the Trek ships, but if the Cylons didn't do it in the show, there has to be a reason to that.
All in all, the CNP being of utmost necessity for the holocaust the Cylons rained on the Twelve Colonies should tell a lot about how far one can push the Cylons's ability.

For the Cylons to be a nuisance, they'd have to possess an advantage, like a hidden base, resources to expand their fleet, and a map of main Trek powers. With that, they could do without the extra silly numbers because they could effectively stick to a guerilla strategy.

User avatar
Mr. Oragahn
Admiral
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:58 am
Location: Paradise Mountain

Re: Cylons invade Star Trek

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:56 pm

Let's point something about "The Plan".
Yes, that plan. Throughout the story, we're told they have a plan. Well, it turned out that the writers didn't know what it was either! :)
But they tried to bridge things later on.
The original Cylons were evolving and making hybrids. Then they met the humanoids, sort of replicants. They were all like that from the world which they came. A few of them had decided to build a supership of some kind and as a nuclear total war broke out on their homeworld, they left for the rumoured Twelve Colonies.
Their arrival is precisely when the Cylons somehow decide to stop the war in exchange of accessing the knowledge of those humanoids, who opearated what would be called the (Cylon) Colony.
Now, my memory is a bit cloudy here but it turned out that after a while, these handful founding fathers (and mothers) of a new generation of humanoid Cylons decided to settle in the Colonies. They left their children, the cloned Cylon models, behind. Somehow, in the process, they had also left their memories behind.
Turns out that the Cavils, the religious but schemy model, wanted to bring their fathers and mothers back. And the only way to do that was to force them to reincarnate themselves into disposable cloned bodies.
So a large part of the destruction of the colonies was motivated by killing as many people as possible and thus increasing the chances of reuniting the family, if you will.
Ok, for some divine reason, this part totally failed because of the five or so originals, not a single one died on the day of mass destruction.
The movie The Plan returns to a time just when the Cavils within the rag tag fleet are recognized. At that moment, they slightly start having doubts, at least one of the pair.
As also told in the finale, the humanoid Cylons wanted to have access to the technology and knowledge of their makers in order to evolve the resurrection tech and become more than machines or fleshy beings.

So with the plot as laid out by the OP, it turns out that if the Cylons have the Colony but are without their founders, they have no chance to find them in the Trek verse. That's one bigger reason not to attack. Plus the Trek societies are radically different and wouldn't seem to treat AI lifeforms like shit.
Not only that, but their tech might allow the Cylons to alter themselves.

Taking that into account, we do realize that as their best chances of winning a war is to wait, learn, prepare like crazy, gather intel, infiltrate and wait even more while building tons of weapons, they'll progressively learn about the advanced tech, the insane disparity there, and also an incredible chance at finding a solution far cheaper than going at war for no solid enough reason.

User avatar
Mr. Oragahn
Admiral
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:58 am
Location: Paradise Mountain

Re: Cylons invade Star Trek

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:28 pm

Aside from one poster who made a rather weird claim about KEWs and their efficiency against Trek shields, it was rather well reasoned.

I still saw one partially erroneous claim, towards the end:
derneuejonathan wrote: On other threads, a good case has been made that even an NX class ship could solo the Cylon fleet. So in a straight up military confrontation, they lose, badly, with even the most minor of powers.
The NX is a good ship, but it isn't that good. Facing the entire Cylon fleet... I doubt it.
The Cylons somewhat used an average of a dozen Basestars per planet, perhaps the double against high population worlds.
You could easily get around 150 Basestars there already.
Each one of them can carry something like more than 200 Raiders. I think the number I counted from screencaps was like 270 something.
Ok let's make that 250.

Anyway. Holocaust ready Cylons forces did have a large amount of nukes of varying models at their disposal.
Raiders themselves carried nukes, and they rated in the 50 KT or so. That's already an insane amount of firepower for such small ships.
Counting the fact that they can rapidly engage and, for some of them, make tactical jumps if they had enough data on the local space, they quite clearly have more than enough chances to obliterate the N-X with even less than a quarter of the fleet. That's already more than 9000 Raiders!
It's not going to take long to see that the N-X has a mobility superiority against Cylon ships, and that it can only be abridged by the use of a tactic seen multiple times during the show.
Last edited by Mr. Oragahn on Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mike DiCenso
Security Officer
Posts: 5836
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:49 pm

Re: Cylons invade Star Trek

Post by Mike DiCenso » Fri May 01, 2015 4:02 am

Didn't we beat this subject to death a long, long time ago?

If an NX class can beat a battlestar, it can more than likely beat an individual nBSG basestar. Don't know about a lone NX beating the entire Cylon fleet, except maybe staying at warp the whole time and trying to one-shot the Cylon capital ships with photonic torpedoes, and praying they can be efficient enough about things that they don't run out of ammo.
-Mike

User avatar
Mr. Oragahn
Admiral
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:58 am
Location: Paradise Mountain

Re: Cylons invade Star Trek

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Fri May 01, 2015 8:34 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:Didn't we beat this subject to death a long, long time ago?

If an NX class can beat a battlestar, it can more than likely beat an individual nBSG basestar. Don't know about a lone NX beating the entire Cylon fleet, except maybe staying at warp the whole time and trying to one-shot the Cylon capital ships with photonic torpedoes, and praying they can be efficient enough about things that they don't run out of ammo.
-Mike
It's pitted against the entire fleet, and the warp-based strategy would not only need to be a proved and tried strategy massively used in Trek (any ship with even a slightly better warp speed would have no reason not to try, considering the massive advantage superior speed always has been in any kind of naval battle!), instead of an off plot-favored outlier, but it's going to be extremely complicated to keep track of not only the moving Basestars of the entire fleet, but also the limited portion of Raiders I used as an example.
I didn't even include Heavy Raiders which are carried inside the landing bays.
Up to thousands of them, all capable of tactical FTL jumps in charted space.
Is there any solid evidence that the N-X has the computational power and high quality sensors to be able to apply such tactics?
Elaan of Troyius is from TOS, featuring the Connie, against a Klingon ship of the same era.
There's nothing spectacular at all about the battles in ENT.

This is not engaging Battlestar Pegasus and her collection of Vipers.

Lucky
Jedi Master
Posts: 2239
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:28 pm

Re: Cylons invade Star Trek

Post by Lucky » Fri May 08, 2015 7:05 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote: Wow. Cylons do what?
The only way the Cylons could be dangerous would be to number like in the millions.
At least with their very impressive FTL drives, they could nuke-spam cities, bases, other outposts even before the most powerful Starfleet ships could lift a finger.
Then, all Raiders would need to be equipped with nukes and literally hug-jump the Starfleet ships and shoot, shoot and shoot again. A ship like the Galaxy would probably need to be surrounded by hundreds of nuke-ready Raiders and other Heavy Raiders.
At least a pre-retcon Basestar would have actually carried that many Raiders.
Perhaps a fine tactic would be to try jumping inside the Trek ships, but if the Cylons didn't do it in the show, there has to be a reason to that.
All in all, the CNP being of utmost necessity for the holocaust the Cylons rained on the Twelve Colonies should tell a lot about how far one can push the Cylons's ability.

For the Cylons to be a nuisance, they'd have to possess an advantage, like a hidden base, resources to expand their fleet, and a map of main Trek powers. With that, they could do without the extra silly numbers because they could effectively stick to a guerilla strategy.
Cylons have tiny 50 megaton nukes and Coaxial Warp Drives
Franchise: Star trek Series: The Next Generation Season: 3 Episode: 12 Title: The High Ground wrote:
CRUSHER: If I could detect their condition earlier 


FINN: You could reverse the damage? 


CRUSHER: Perhaps. I don't know. What happened to them? 


FINN: It's the inverter. It's given our cause a new life, but it asks for our lives in return. 


CRUSHER: What does it do? 


FINN: We transport through a dimensional shift that the Rutian sensors can't trace. 


CRUSHER: Dimensional shifting? You can't do that with humanoid tissue. 


FINN: There are risks, the designers told us, But it works. 


CRUSHER: You're showing the same distorted readings. Not as severe as the others, but 


FINN: It doesn't matter. 


CRUSHER: It does if it kills you.
DATA: A subspace field coil with an isolated power source. Curious. 


LAFORGE: Hey, guys. Come here. Look at this. The Rutian team picked up a faint nuclear vibration during the terrorist movements. 


WESLEY: Nuclear vibration? 


DATA: That could possibly indicate subspace transition rebound during transport. 


WESLEY: Wait a minute, wait a minute. May I? Computer, call up the files on. What was his name? We spent two hours on him in astral physics last year. Folded-space transport. 


LAFORGE: Adaptive transport. 


WESLEY: Yes. 


DATA: Are you referring to the Elway Theorem? 


WESLEY: Yes. Computer, call up the files on the Elway Theorem. What if they're using inter-dimensional travel? 


DATA: But the Elway Theorem proved to be entirely inaccurate. All research was abandoned by the mid-twenty third century. 


WESLEY: But Data, look, the nuclear vibrations are the same, and Elway used a model similar to this. 


LAFORGE: It would certainly be untraceable by any standard method of detection. 


DATA: But it was proven to be fatal. To use this technology would be an irrational act. 


PICARD: We may be dealing with irrational people, Data. Is there a way to trace this? 


LAFORGE: With an adaptive subspace echogram, maybe? 


DATA: Captain, anyone who is willing to transport in this manner, would suffer significant internal damage that could be detected. 


PICARD: It sounds as though they may require the services of a doctor.
DATA: A dimensional jump can create subspace pressure modulation, Captain. By setting up a magnetosphere echogram that can monitor each of their movements, we may be able to collect enough data to trace their power source. 


PICARD: Can you estimate the number of jumps it will take? 


DATA: Dimensional shifting is such an unstable procedure, sir, that I cannot say. Sir, I am finding it difficult to understand many aspects of Ansata conduct. Much of their behavioral norm would be defined by my programme as unnecessary and unacceptable.
WORF: Intruders in Engineering 


DATA: Casualties reported on deck twelve. Sickbay responding. 


PICARD: Seal off all decks. Lock on transporters to the intruder signals. 


CREWMAN [OC]: Intruder signals unstable, Captain, I cannot lock on. 


DATA: They are moving inter-dimensionally. Neither transporters nor forcefields will contain them, sir.
WESLEY: More dimensional shifts, sir. 


PICARD: Can you calibrate their destination? 


WESLEY: No, sir, the readings are 


(Finn and another terrorist jump onto the Bridge. Finn fires at the navigation console. Picard punches him and knocks him down. The woman terrorist shoots Worf in the leg as he shoots her) 


TROI: Security. Code one emergency. Security! 


(The woman, Picard and Finn, vanish)
WESLEY: Got it. We've pinpointed the Ansata base to some three hundred kilometres from the city, on the southern tip of the continent. 


DATA: Sensors indicate it is located thirty metres below the ground, implying a cavern-like dwelling. 


RIKER: Any passages leading to the surface? 


DATA: Our readings show no evidence of any, Commander. 


RIKER: Any light they have must be artificially generated. 


ALEXANA: If we could shut that down, you could use the confusion to find your people. 


WORF: Request permission to join the rescue party, sir. I owe it to the Captain. 


RIKER: Permission granted. You have the bridge, Mister Data. 


DATA: Aye, sir. 


WESLEY: Commander? Good luck. 


RIKER: We'll bring her home, Wes.
Franchise: Star trek Series: Voyager Season: 1 Episode: 10 Title: Prime Factors wrote:
KIM: Captain! Excuse me for interrupting but I've just found out about something incredible.


JANEWAY: Calm down, Ensign. What is it?


KIM: That platform. It's a transportation device. Extremely sophisticated. It operates on the principle of folding space.


JANEWAY: That's something that's been theorised, but no one's ever been able to develop the technology.


KIM: Well, these people have. I've just been to Alastria and back. Alastria is forty thousand light years away.


GATH: We call it a spatial trajector. We are able to travel to all the planets in this quadrant.


JANEWAY: How far can it take you?


GATH: Alastria is at the uttermost limits of it's range.


KIM: Apparently it's never been used to move anything as large as Voyager, but as I understand the principle of space folding, the size of the object isn't relevant.


JANEWAY: What do you think? Would it be possible to modify your technology so we could use it?
TORRES: All right, the matrix is activating.


SESKA: The trajector field is forming.


CAREY: And it's amplifying. Look how fast it's expanding!


TORRES: That's the effect of the quartz mantle.


SESKA: We're nearly at full field strength. This is going to work. 


(Alarms sound.) 


CAREY: What is it?


TORRES: The plasma manifold is becoming unstable.


SESKA: I can compensate for that!


CAREY: The manifold is being bombarded by anti-neutrinos from the trajector field.


SESKA: Anti-neutrinos?


TORRES: They must be the catalyst for the space-folding process. 


SESKA: It's not working. I can't compensate for the instability.


CAREY: There's no way to compensate for a field that size!
SESKA: Anti-neutrino bombardment has stopped. Plasma temperature dropping.


TORRES: We didn't anticipate anti-neutrinos. The trajector could never be compatible with Federation technology.
Franchise: Star Trek Series: Voyager Season: 4 Episode: 20 Title: Vis a Vis wrote:
KIM: It's an alien vessel, one occupant aboard. 


PARIS: Captain, it looks like that ship is being powered by a coaxial warp drive. 


CHAKOTAY: Coaxial what? 


PARIS: It's a hypothetical propulsion system. Starfleet engineers have been dreaming about it for years. In theory, it can literally fold the fabric of space allowing a ship to travel instantaneously across huge distances.
TUVOK: The alien warp drive is overloading. 


PARIS: In theory, a coaxial drive explosion could collapse space within a radius of a billion kilometres. In theory. 


JANEWAY: Let's keep theory from becoming reality. Red alert!
PARIS: That ship's about had it, Captain. The coaxial core is breaching. 


TUVOK: We should vacant this area of space at once. 


PARIS: We can't just leave him like this. 


JANEWAY: Try one more hail. 


KIM: Nothing. Maybe he's ignoring us. 


PARIS: Or maybe he's unconscious. We've got to do something. 


JANEWAY: Suggestions? 


PARIS: A symmetric warp field. That should contain any instabilities in his space-folding core. 


CHAKOTAY: How can you be sure?


PARIS: Advanced subspace geometry. It's the one course at the academy where I actually paid attention. We'll tractor him in to kill his momentum, generate a warp field around his ship. 


TUVOK: His flightpath is erratic. We'd be risking collision. 


PARIS: Captain, I can make this work. 


JANEWAY: Do it. 


PARIS: Passing through the residual folds in space. Steady. Got him! 


TUVOK: I've extended our warp field around his vessel. His core is powering down.
JANEWAY: Coaxial warp doesn't seem to be the smoothest way to travel. 


STETH: It's a violent procedure, but it allows a ship to travel through space at incredible speeds. 


TUVOK: Considering the dangers, this method of travel hardly seems logical. 


STETH: That's probably true, but if I were worrying about danger I wouldn't have become a test pilot. 


JANEWAY: Where are you from? 


STETH: The fourth planet of the Benthan system. That's about twenty light years from here. 


JANEWAY: I'll speak to my engineers about helping you with repairs. Without your coaxial drive, it's a long way home.
STETH: Here it is, the coaxial induction drive. It draws in subatomic particles and reconfigures their internal geometries. 


PARIS: And this is what makes folding space possible? 


STETH: At least in spurts. Unfortunately, particle instabilities keep overloading my engines. But I'm going to make it work. I have to keep in motion. I don't like the thought of settling down. Too many new ships to drive. Too many intriguing women.
PARIS: A car's engine can't run on pure fuel, so the carburettor supplies it with a mixture of vaporised fuel and air. 


STETH: And you think we need a device like that to dilute the particle stream as it enters the coaxial drive. 


PARIS: Exactly! And a spare polaric modulator from Voyager's impulse drive should do the trick. 


STETH: Subatomic dilution! It never would have occurred to me. I think you've solved it.
PARIS/STETH: Computer, where are we? 


COMPUTER: Navigation matrix one seven one one. The Kotaba expanse. Coaxial leap complete. 


PARIS?STETH: How far are we from Voyager? Computer, lock in Voyager's last known coordinates and activate differential induction drive. 


COMPUTER: Unable to execute command. 


PARIS/STETH: Why not? 


COMPUTER: The differential induction drive has been secured. The security access code is required to implement the coaxial leap.
DAELEN: The coaxial drive will be online in a few minutes. 


PARIS/STETH: Good. I've just about overridden all the lock-out commands. No offence, but I'd like to get out of your body as soon as possible. 


DAELEN: The alien seems capable of some sort of selective DNA exchange. He absorbs new DNA while depositing his current genetic material into his victims. Let's hope he can reverse that process. 


PARIS/STETH: That's the last lock-out command. We're set for coaxial warp. Let's find Voyager.


Captain's log, supplemental. The doctor has treated Mister Paris' phaser wounds, but has been unable to wake him. The motive for his attack remains a mystery.


[Sickbay]


EMH: Neurological scans yielded very little, but I did find something very interesting in his blood analysis. There are traces of a second DNA pattern in his nucleotide structure. Possibly the result of a genetic virus. 


TUVOK: Could this be the cause of his recent behaviour? 


EMH: I don't know, but I'm running more scans to see how this might have affected his neurological functions. 


CHAKOTAY [OC]: Captain, a vessel just emerged from coaxial space off our starboard bow. 


JANEWAY: Keep me informed, Doctor.
DAELEN: He's charging the coaxial drive. 


PARIS/STETH: Set the sensors to track him. 


DAELEN: I can't. He's blocking us. We won't be able to follow him once he goes into coaxial warp. We're losing him. 


PARIS/STETH: The carburettor! We added a polaric modulator to the coaxial drive. If I can target the modulator, hit it with a chromoelectric pulse, that'll disrupt his engines. Here goes.
Interestingly, I've heard that the Enterprise-J was suppose to have a space-fold drive as I recall, but that's never seen nor stated on screen as I recall.

User avatar
Mr. Oragahn
Admiral
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:58 am
Location: Paradise Mountain

Re: Cylons invade Star Trek

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Fri May 08, 2015 8:44 pm

Lucky wrote: Cylons have tiny 50 megaton nukes and Coaxial Warp Drives.
1. You said "tiny"; is it pejorative?
50 megatons is nothing any ship in the UFP would scoff at.
The main problem being propulsion. It's absolutely primitive and it just a rocket fired from a launching ramp.

2. Seems similar, although the BSG model is clearly totally stable and doesn't destroy a stupid amount of space when exploing. The stability might be gained from the smaller jumps. Highly speculative. All in all, it shows that Trekverse is ill-equipped to tackle this technology against a faction that has mastered it.

User avatar
Praeothmin
Jedi Master
Posts: 3920
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:24 pm
Location: Quebec City

Re: Cylons invade Star Trek

Post by Praeothmin » Mon May 11, 2015 8:42 pm

Yeah, 50 Megatons would not be scoffed at since Photorps are rated at around 64Mtons in the manual...
IF it was able to hit, that is...
These 50MTons missiles seem hella slow...

User avatar
Mr. Oragahn
Admiral
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:58 am
Location: Paradise Mountain

Re: Cylons invade Star Trek

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed May 13, 2015 3:51 pm

Praeothmin wrote:Yeah, 50 Megatons would not be scoffed at since Photorps are rated at around 64Mtons in the manual...
IF it was able to hit, that is...
These 50MTons missiles seem hella slow...
Artistic limitations aside (one of the creators of the show is quoted from saying that ranges and all ensuing factors have been limited for the sake of nicer looking pictures), they're still slow and not advanced enough to avoid being shot down, if Trek ships could.
A mix of phasers and torpedoes used to directly hit or disable by proximity damage (caught in the lethal radius of the torp) would provide a good defense.
No Trek ship needs to get close, not even the NX I presume (although I wasn't much impressed by the ranges, quite even shorter on the average than those seen in nBSG).
It's possible that in the case of a dense salvo of missiles, the NX might get hit at sublight speed.

User avatar
Mr. Oragahn
Admiral
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:58 am
Location: Paradise Mountain

Re: Cylons invade Star Trek

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed May 13, 2015 7:30 pm

Also, the Cylon Colony is also something massive to consider.
Its hull is littered with mass drivers and heavy firing cannons to the point of ludicrous.
The mass drivers fired rounds that moved at 1.7 km/s.
Strangely enough, the rounds weren't exactly "solid". They were more like luminous bolts.
It was said it wouldn't fire nukes because Galactica had jumped right next to the hull.
The thing has tons of Cylon Raiders.

Lucky
Jedi Master
Posts: 2239
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:28 pm

Re: Cylons invade Star Trek

Post by Lucky » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:15 am

Praeothmin wrote: Yeah, 50 Megatons would not be scoffed at since Photorps are rated at around 64Mtons in the manual...
IF it was able to hit, that is...
I really wish people would read books a touch more carefully.
Pocket Books Star Trek Series: Star Trek Title: STAR TREK THE NEXT GENERATION TECHNICAL MANUAL ISBN: 978-0-6717-0427-8 Page: 129 wrote: While the maximum payload of anti-matter in a standard torpedo is only about 1.5 kilograms, the released energy per unit of time is actual greater then that calculated for a Galaxy class anti-matterpod rupture.
As you can see there is no stated yield for a Photon Torpedo given, and if you do some fan calculations based on assumptions you get about 64 megatons...

But if you read further into the book they actually state the yields of a Photon Torpedo:
Pocket Books Star Trek Series: Star Trek Title: STAR TREK THE NEXT GENERATION TECHNICAL MANUAL ISBN: 978-0-6717-0427-8 Page: 141 wrote: Matter from the primary deuterium tankage and the total supply of anti-matter from the storage pods on Deck 42 are expelled simultaneously, producing an energy release on the order of 10^15 megajoules, roughly 1000 photon torpedos.
2.39 Gigatons...

And just paragraphs later the yield is stated again:
Pocket Books Star Trek Series: Star Trek Title: STAR TREK THE NEXT GENERATION TECHNICAL MANUAL ISBN: 978-0-6717-0427-8 Page: 141 wrote: The release yield of the secondary system is calculated to be 10^9 megajoules, roughly equivalent to 500 photon torpedos. The secondary destruct system becomes the primary system for the Saucer Module in Separated Flight Node.
5 kilotons...

They really needed a better proof reader, or where really trying to hammer home how unreliable the book was?
Praeothmin wrote: These 50MTons missiles seem hella slow...
Given no one ever had trouble shooting down spacial torpedos we can assume that just about everything in NBSG can be shot down or ignored unless they jump inside the the target, but there wouldn't have been need for the backdoor if the Cylons could do that.

Lucky
Jedi Master
Posts: 2239
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:28 pm

Re: Cylons invade Star Trek

Post by Lucky » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:22 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote: 1. You said "tiny"; is it pejorative?
50 megatons is nothing any ship in the UFP would scoff at.
The main problem being propulsion. It's absolutely primitive and it just a rocket fired from a launching ramp.
Tiny compared to the low end photon torpedo calculations I've seen which are about double that.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: 2. Seems similar, although the BSG model is clearly totally stable and doesn't destroy a stupid amount of space when exploing. The stability might be gained from the smaller jumps. Highly speculative. All in all, it shows that Trekverse is ill-equipped to tackle this technology against a faction that has mastered it.
Quite the opposite. It shows that the Federation, Romulans, and Klingons at least have defenses in place for dealing with such technology or groups like the Dominion would have been able to easily land anything any where they wanted, and the Dominion wouldn't even need to fix the flaws.

User avatar
Mr. Oragahn
Admiral
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:58 am
Location: Paradise Mountain

Re: Cylons invade Star Trek

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:53 pm

Lucky wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote: 1. You said "tiny"; is it pejorative?
50 megatons is nothing any ship in the UFP would scoff at.
The main problem being propulsion. It's absolutely primitive and it just a rocket fired from a launching ramp.
Tiny compared to the low end photon torpedo calculations I've seen which are about double that.
Ok. It depends on the era too. But in many ways, it's far more than enough to wreck any Trek planet in an alpha assault, which the Cylons are capable of.
Mr. Oragahn wrote: 2. Seems similar, although the BSG model is clearly totally stable and doesn't destroy a stupid amount of space when exploing. The stability might be gained from the smaller jumps. Highly speculative. All in all, it shows that Trekverse is ill-equipped to tackle this technology against a faction that has mastered it.
Quite the opposite. It shows that the Federation, Romulans, and Klingons at least have defenses in place for dealing with such technology or groups like the Dominion would have been able to easily land anything any where they wanted, and the Dominion wouldn't even need to fix the flaws.
No, it only shows that someone within a very late era Federation vessel, after having access to the tech in some fashion, just found a way to both calm it and prevent the jump from happening.
Like if you could, for example, choke a combustion engine (it still needs air after all) and also find a way to regulate the fuel valve of an engine that's rather unstable by design.
Limiting the amount of particle also means disturbing the normal process within the coaxial warp engine. In no other way it means they had built one or could even reproduce one.
And at best, it means at that time, they might have a way to stop a jump from that particular kind of engine, that is, prevent a ship from moving off, not moving in.
This still leaves Trek worlds exposed.

Post Reply