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[Who is like God arbour]

Not to demean the guys who had those long ass missions in those old planes in WWII, but, the pilots in WWII had to contend with:

"you know, this is another bombing raid, theyll be others and probably more important ones too, anti air fire and fighters planes up ahead"

whereas the Rebels were thinking

"Shit, this is it! This is the mission of the war. We are outnumbered by ONE fucking sector group, we're about to go right into the fucking doorstep of the biggest nastiest spacestation in the history of our galaxy, its defenses alone could fight off entire fleets, were risking all this on a group of small commandoes who are also outnumbered, they might not make it either. There is no second chance on this one.

Oh, and Im in a little snubfighter. Great"

JMSpock thinks that 6 to 12 hours with that nice little thought isnt going to affect anyone.

Actually, he says that they wern't flying for 12 hours at all, but rather, there were droids flying the ships instead.

I didn't see any, although I haven't seen the movie recent enough to remember such details. Were there any droids flying the ships?

Even worse, the guys were awake to think about what they were about to get themselves into.

Besides, still the same thing, you are still cramped in that little space for a long ass time.

I wonder if they and the gays who are thinking the same, have seen the movie at all.

1. The rebels were convinced, that "the weapon systems on this Death Star [were] not yet operational",
2. that "it is [only] protected by an energy shield, which is generated from the nearby forest Moon of Endor" and
3. at their arrival, they were astonished that there were "enemy ships in sector 47", what has caused Ackbars surprised diagnosis that "it's a trap".

The rebels have clearly not anticipated any extensive fights. They have anticipated, as Ackbar has described it in the briefing, that "once the shield is down, [their] cruisers will create a perimeter, while the fighters fly into the superstructure and attempt to knock out the main reactor." That's sure not an easy task. But nevertheless, it's not as bad as they are trying to describe it.

The pilots in their fighters could have let the autopilot steer the fighters while in hyperdrive and could have relaxed or sleeped while reducing the artificial gravity.

Even planes from today have an autopilot and don't need any droids to fly it. Shall we assume, that Star Wars fighters have no autopilot?

And, to make the whole case even more complicated, who says, that time in hyperspace is the same as in real space? In real space, 12 hours or even more could have passed, but in hyperspace it were maybe only a few minutes. Especially those, who think that hyperspace is nothing more than real space, viewed from above lightspeed, should consider time dilations.

Who the fuck cares whether the pilots could withstand that kind of long-term cramped condition without suffering an edema or something? This numb-nuts theory requires that it took 12 fucking hours for Han Solo and Leia to be escorted out of the building.

Is there any indication, that the departure of the rebel fleet from Sullust has happened after the rebel task force was captured?

Usually in movies, because it is difficult to simultaneously show different events which have happened at the same time but in different locations on one screen, these events are shown one after another. Sometimes events are even shown totally out of their chronology because it is easier to comprehend for the audience.

If there are no indications, that different events, which have happened in different locations, have really happened one after another, one can not assume, that, because they were shown one after another, that they have indeed happened one after another. They could have happened simultaneously or the later shown event could even have happened before the first shown event.

The rebels could have entered the enemy complex and sneaked to the shield control room. That's not something, one can do overhasty, if one don't want to be detected. That's why it would need its time for them to reach their destination. But the rebel fleet could have departured from Sullust already shortly after the task force has entered the bunker and could have been underway, while the task force has tried to reach the shield control room. These events could have been merely showed in another order.

• • • • Furthermore, it is interessting, that, when someone, who speaks in favor for Star Trek, makes a mistake, someone like Darth Wrong is overready to show that and to proclaim how stupid one is. But to these stupid, the movie ignoring mistakes, he has said nothing.
        I think, that's one reason, why many people have problems with respecting him. If he would be honest, he would have pointed out that mistake as he would have pointed it out, if it would have been from a pro Star Trek debater. But it seems, as long as it is speaking in favor for Star Wars, he doesn't care, if it is wrong. But if that is his attitude, how can one trust him to say the truth at all.
        I know, he would say, that he doesn't care, if I respect him or not. But if he would have pointed out that mistake in the same way he points out the mistakes from pro Star Trek debater, he would have gained some respect from me because he would have shown, that he can be honest for a change.

[Praeothmin]

The pilots in their fighters could have let the autopilot steer the fighters while in hyperdrive and could have relaxed or sleeped while reducing the artificial gravity.

A good proof that droids do control fighters in SW:
In TESB, when Luke goes to Dagobah, he tells R2 to leave in manual because he wants to fly for while.

Even worse, in TPM, the Naboo fighters had their autopilots programmed to take them directly to the Droid control ship, because Anakin had to tell R2 to trun it off and put it on manual so he would be able to fly the ship.

It seems that some Pro-Wars debaters haven't even seen the movies... :)

[Who is like God arbour]

That's more or less orrect.

I think, that especially TPM proves, that they don't need a droid to autopilot a fighter. The onboard computer is enough (not that this is a special achievement - as I have said, each modern plane has an autopilot today) and even fighters without astromechs have an onboard computer.

The fighter with Anakin has followed the rest of its echelon on its own. R2D2 has had no reason to steer a fighter, in which a small child was sitting, in a battle. The little astromech droid may be able to command the autopilot but the autopilot don't depend on the astromech droid.

[Mike DiCenso]

Don't forget folks that even the Wars' beloved EU grants the ability to travel up to a week in an X-wing (presumably other starfighters as well):

http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum/view ... 05&start=0

So at least a day or two could have gone by there since starfighters can support their pilot for extended journeys.
-Mike

[Praeothmin]

That's more or less orrect.

I think, that especially TPM proves, that they don't need a droid to autopilot a fighter. The onboard computer is enough (not that this is a special achievement - as I have said, each modern plane has an autopilot today) and even fighters without astromechs have an onboard computer.

Yes, I agree it proves that they don't need droids to fly the ships, but it also proves that Droids can control and fly a ship... :)

[Mr. Oragahn]

Frankly, what's the argument about exactly?

While it's obvious that artificial gravity could be reduced, I'm a bit tired and I don't even remember what's the deal about the trip to Endor.

[GStone]

That fighter pilots spent up to a couple weeks or more traveing in hyperspace, as they went to endor, that Luke wasn't immediately taken to the Emporer and that it was at least 12 hours or about a couple weeks before the captured rebels were walked out of the bunker after they were captured.

The thing that supports the idea is the DS's nongeosynchronous orbit above endor and the fact that over a day's worth of story on endor passed. There is also the fact that endor is relatively earth size, since the rebels didn't need special equipment to be on it, which supports the length of time changes that's comperable to earth. This leads to the idea of more than a day or 2 from the filmed scenes.

The main reason why it's thought that it could have taken a couple weeks is the novel's use of the word 'hundreds of lightyears' for the distance the rebel fleet was sitting in space from the DS/endor. This is the spot that is 'near sullust' (as per Vader saying 'the rebel fleet massing near sullust'), which means somewhere between 200 and 999 lys. So, based on the movie canon, it could have taken a few days or up to a couple weeks for the fleet to make the trip.

Most of the objections I've seen is that it mainly comes down to whether a pilot, especially one in a fighter, could withstand the trip. There's plenty of room to store food and drink, there might be a way to relieve one's waste products (they have fusion tech, so it might even be used for powering the engine core for all we know), they have communications between the ships and fighters.

Common objections are 'why was it so long before Luke saw the emporer' and 'why would it take a couple weeks before the captured rebels were led out of the bunker'. These are often used to discount the other evidence I listed above. A larger amount of evidence supports that it did take a bit before the rebels were let out and that it was a while before Luke saw the emporer (whatever the reason for it being so is), even if these seem odd things.

Edit: Oh, yeah. There's also the part in the novel about the ewoks digging traps for the AT-STs to fall into, daming enough water up to knock some over and in the movie, having a bunch of logs bundled together for an AT-ST to stumble on, as well as suspending 2 fucking huge logs in trees and at an angle, so that when the line was cut, each one would swing down and crush the cabin of an AT-ST.

With this points, you get the ideas of uber ewoks from the other side that are faster and stronger than Data, despite what we see in the films, can fell large logs and do a whole bunch of other shit in secret with the stromtrooper stepping right on top of them and not getting found out (which was also between the time the rebels were caught in the bunker and when they were led out of the bunker). And you also have to include the time it took wicket getting back to the ewok village, the ewoks figuring out a plan, mobilizing presumably everyone and them getting all this shit done. Those are some fucking strong ewoks because then, they started fighting the stormtroopers. How rediculous is that?

[Mr. Oragahn]

Would there be any objection to the idea of the rebels making a break in some nebula or something?

Many of these ships are capable of carrying smaller spacecrafts.
Either the hangars were already full, or it was estimated better to have the pilots ready to engage an enemy in case anything bad happened, like an interception, so fighters and bombers wouldn't need to be deployed.

[GStone]

Would there be any objection to the idea of the rebels making a break in some nebula or something?

I don't think there's anything that'd be against it, if they ended up ahead of schedule.

Many of these ships are capable of carrying smaller spacecrafts.
Either the hangars were already full, or it was estimated better to have the pilots ready to engage an enemy in case anything bad happened, like an interception, so fighters and bombers wouldn't need to be deployed.

Maybe. We do know that some fighters were moving on their own power when the fleet left sullust, but Wedge remarked that the TIEs were going after the medical frigate. So, there were probably wounded being brought into it somehow. Maybe rescue droids or something that got surviving pilots. It's possible that there were some spare fighters in the hangars, aside from any that might have been launched after they found that Imps set a trap.

[Mr. Oragahn]

How can one disprove that the trip lasted only one or two hours top, or even less?

[GStone]

Endor's earth-like size, the DS's nongeosynchronous orbit, all the effort the ewoks went to for setting their traps and anti-AT-ST 'devices'. You'd need bionic ewoks.

[Mr. Oragahn]

So they kept Luke in a cell or something, like 6 hours?

[Kazeite]

That, or they made all those traps beforehand. Y'know, just in case. You may never be too prepared :D It's a real shame the battle was too short for the Ewoks to use their wooden spaceships ;)

[Mr. Oragahn]

That, or they made all those traps beforehand. Y'know, just in case. You may never be too prepared :D It's a real shame the battle was too short for the Ewoks to use their wooden spaceships ;)

Which throw stones with teratons of recoil.

[Roondar]

That, or they made all those traps beforehand. Y'know, just in case. You may never be too prepared :D It's a real shame the battle was too short for the Ewoks to use their wooden spaceships ;)

Which throw stones with teratons of recoil.

And are powered by stoned matter generators.