ST.com

Cpl Kendall · Post by **Cpl Kendall** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:52 pm

Those look like plastic soap barrels.

Post by **Jedi Master Spock** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:58 pm

On topic... welcome, Kane Starkiller, to ST.com.

Praeothmin · Post by **Praeothmin** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:26 pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:Those look like plastic soap barrels.

And Stormtrooper armor look like cheap plastic imitation of real armor... :)

Unfortunately, props can't always be perfect... :)

Post by **Jedi Master Spock** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:12 pm

Hm, I see Mr. Wong is making again the inaccurate claim that all individuals not agreeing with him are horribly uneducated.

If anybody is running back and forth, you should remind him that he's not the only person with a Bachelor's degree, and that I'm probably far from the only person resident on this board who is better educated than he is in matters scientific and mathematic.

Mr. Oragahn · Post by **Mr. Oragahn** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:24 pm

Damn egos. Really.

watchdog · Post by **watchdog** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:20 pm

I'm not that impressed with Mr. Wongs BA, I may not have a college education but I like to think that I can put 2 and 2 togeather and from my perspective he is very, very picky about what he accepts as evidence usually all biased one way or another.

Post by **Mike DiCenso** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:54 pm

As always, a quick reminder: This is Wong at his best form of double-standard. He is quick to grab anything favorable to the Wars side from people like Wayne Poe, Brian Young, and Commander Thelea (aka. Marina O'Leary) among others, who have little or no actual training/education in the sciences and engineering fields.
-Mike

Praeothmin · Post by **Praeothmin** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:24 pm

I was reading the thread at ST.com once more, and just couldn't believe what I was reading.

The guy JMS is debating is actually defending the Empire and its actions.

What he's saying is basically that the Empire is good for the majority of its citizens, because it brought peace and prosperity for them.
He's saying that an Empire who authorized the destruction of an entire planet because of what its leaders were doing is a good Empire... O_O!

Please tell me he is joking.
What he's saying is akin to someone declaring pre-WWII Germany a great country with a great leader.
Oh sure, they tortured and raped and killed most of the Jews, but hey, for the rest of Germany, they were really great...

Am I the only one completely apalled by this?
I mean, I know we are talking about a non-existing, space-fantasy setting, but even then, it's a little bit surprising.

Post by **Jedi Master Spock** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:56 pm

Well, I've gotten rather used to seeing that position. VS debaters get emotionally invested in a comparison - in this case, "The Empire is better than the Federation!" - and end up carrying it to unusual extremes.

It is true that the Jedi Order and the "good guys" of Star Wars are, as Dr. Brin points out, often questionable in their moral lessons, and close readings of the film illuminate potentially sinister motives to everybody from Qui-Gon to R2-D2; however, the "good guys" not being so good doesn't necessarily mean the Empire is good.

CrippledVulture · Post by **CrippledVulture** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:57 am

I believe I've mentioned before that in a discussion about the Federation and communism, they decided that the Federation must somehow be brainwashing its citizens into compliance.

watchdog · Post by **watchdog** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:31 am

CrippledVulture wrote:I believe I've mentioned before that in a discussion about the Federation and communism, they decided that the Federation must somehow be brainwashing its citizens into compliance.

I think I remember that argument, it is sad that these people think the empire is so much better because they are unable to admit that there may be some things from trek that are superior to wars.

Praeothmin · Post by **Praeothmin** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:21 pm

JMS, I've been following the debate, and I still can't believe what I'm reading.

They will twist everything in order for their arguments to be valid.
One person even linked the SW databank article on the Empire's evil actions, like the destruction of Alderaan.

Lord_Vespasian's reply:
Note that the Databank is not a fully comprehensive account of all aspects of the Star Wars Saga and Expanded Universe material. Many of its pages are out-dated, and a great amount of material is not included?since the Databank largely focuses on the major aspects of Star Wars.

It should be noted, also, that the Emperor did not approve of Alderaan's destruction.

After telling JMS many times how he was oftain failing to provide proof, he just throws in this little tidbit that the Emperor was against what Tarkin did... without proving it.
So, now he picks and chooses which information source is valid, and which isn't... Typical...

And Aratech a little farther down tries to find all kinds of convoluted explanations to say that what was witnessed in Darksaber wasn't an example of ships firing at their maximum firepower.

Explanations which of course make no sense unless you're totally devoid of this little aptitude called "logic".

Really, it's a fun little debate, you should all go and take a look, if only out of curiosity:
http://boards.startrek.com/community/me ... 49;st=2280

SSFPhoenix · Post by **SSFPhoenix** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:59 pm

Yeah that was sad when he said that about the link and the empire after I did the link.
*sigh* how do you beat some one like that.?

I wonder what they would do if Lucas said SW couldn't beat ST?

Praeothmin · Post by **Praeothmin** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:42 pm

SSFPhoenix wrote:I wonder what they would do if Lucas said SW couldn't beat ST?

They would do everything in their power to discredit him, and try all sorts of convoluted arguments to explain how Lucas lost his mind, how he doesn't know what he's talking about, just like they do about all the SW authors they don't like, or who's work doesn't espouse their vision of SW.

Socar · Post by **Socar** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:22 pm

I'm going to venture a guess and say that most would just ignore him.

Or they'll be like me and wonder why the hell Lucas is talking about STvSW ;)