Re: spacebattles has splintered
Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 10:15 pm
He's already been there for days and hasn't posted. There's perhaps nothing to add.
Fixed that for you.Mr. Oragahn wrote:She's already been there for days and hasn't posted. There's perhaps nothing to add.
Fixed that for you.Narsil wrote:Fixed that for you.Mr. Oragahn wrote:He's already been there for days and hasn't posted. There's perhaps nothing to add.
No I was just kidding.Khas wrote:Ah shit, is this gonna be a repeat of the Great Serafina-Vs-WILGA Transsexual Debate of 2010?
can I have a link to that?Khas wrote:Ah shit, is this gonna be a repeat of the Great Serafina-Vs-WILGA Transsexual Debate of 2010?
My post was blocked.Mr. Oragahn wrote:She's already been there for days and hasn't posted. There's perhaps nothing to add.
This thread was your guy's lowest moment.Khas wrote:http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum/view ... f=9&t=1528
Prepare for 40 pages of mud-slinging, though.
Narsil wrote:You know what I don't understand about all this? The persistent transphobia of some people here. I mean, I literally do not understand the mindset behind it. It's usually the case of someone who has, as science has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, been born with the wrong body for their brain chemistry. It isn't always this exact reason, but regardless it is almost always the case of someone whose mind is trapped within the wrong body. And since the brain itself is the more important part, this person (regardless of whatever the rest of their biology says) should be considered to have the gender that they identify with.
Now, many people have raised what I like to call 'the normality argument', which isn't actually an argument at all but a logical fallacy. Just because something isn't common or 'normal' does not make it wrong. And in fact trying to enforce your normative views on these individuals is itself wrong.
Allow me to explain, using homosexuality as a starting point;
Let's think of a gay man who was forced to try and adjust to society's norms, and let's think about what would happen to him. He would, under certain laws, either be sent to prison, outright executed, or forced to endure treatments to try and curtail his sex drive. Assuming the latter, the man would suffer physiological and psychological side-effects of this treatment, and would naturally as a result of his horrible situation, being treated as little more than an aberration in society... enter a deep and dark depression from which it seems the only way out is to take his own life.
His being gay caused no harm to anyone. It did not cause harm to himself, either, as the only harm done to him was because of society's treatment of him. Even if we assume that homosexuality is a choice (which it is not!), it is still his choice, and one which he ought to have been free to make.
But you see, I'm not talking about a random hypothetical individual here. I'm talking about a specific individual called Alan Turing, the person who could be termed the father of modern computing and without whom you would not be posting your hateful spiel all over the fucking internet. This right here is why I hate the term 'normal', because the term, as it is often used, is little more than a way to try and marginalise and oppress those are different. I have suffered personally from this, due to being autistic.
But ultimately when trying to determine why, I get stuck. I try to distance myself from the attitudes of those who call themselves 'rationalists', due to many of their own horrible viewpoints on women, but I do consider myself at least a vaguely rational person. And from my perspective, the hatred for gay and trans people isn't just irrational, it's nonsensically irrational. There is no reason I can determine as to why you would hate someone for who he or she feels like he or she is, or who he or she would fall in love with. It's pointless and hateful and makes no fucking sense.
Why would a sensible, feeling human being act this way towards another?
Please tell me honestly, because I'm afraid that I do not understand.
So this is the bad ass lady what got under Kratmans skin so much? He must be fuming extra hard nowKahless wrote: This thread was your guy's lowest moment.
it's amusing how you think those of us who object to the concept are doing so on the grounds of irrational fear as opposed too "wait hold on a minute, in every other case of identity issues it's a mental illness but in this it isn't? Says who and why? What's the science behind this? Did headshrinks cave politically as they often do..or were there legitimate studies done to determine this?"Narsil wrote:You know what I don't understand about all this? The persistent transphobia of some people here. I mean, I literally do not understand the mindset behind it.
Many people feel they are animals trapped in a human body, some even think they are dinosaurs.Praeothmin wrote:It definitely wasn't the site's best moments, the Kor/Serafine debate, but both sides were being hot-heads at one point or another...
But I have to agree with Narsil on this:
Why is there even a debate?
Athena feels she is a women, in her mind, just like gays are attracted to people of the same sex, in their minds.
Why is it fine for gays, why are they seemingly more accepted here then transexuals?
This is going to be tough for mods to sort out. I cannot comment on the reasons of the post being blocked, but I can quickly comment on what you said.Kahless wrote:My post was blocked.Mr. Oragahn wrote:She's already been there for days and hasn't posted. There's perhaps nothing to add.
http://i.imgur.com/VbOvPuO.jpg
But luckily I have old as hell alt. It makes my skin crawl but moral cowardice on your staff's part has forced me to.
Basically, you're allowed to be as hateful as you want to be but if I say that you wouldn't know what to do with a woman as hot as me along with with an angler fish dance gif is unacceptable. Your faux civility is tiresome and fools nobody.
I'm sorry that you are unable to cope with the idea of showing actual civility to people or showing them respect. Maybe one day you'll join the modern world or at minimum rise to the standards of Es Arkajae.
P.S: You totally couldn't handle this.
I'm out.
Why should people accept the proper definition of a woman to be altered as to allow dysfunctional people to be considered part of the norm, that is, part of what actually works as planned and as needed?Praeothmin wrote:It definitely wasn't the site's best moments, the Kor/Serafine debate, but both sides were being hot-heads at one point or another...
But I have to agree with Narsil on this:
Why is there even a debate?
Athena feels she is a women, in her mind, just like gays are attracted to people of the same sex, in their minds.
Why is it fine for gays, why are they seemingly more accepted here then transexuals?
Then don't try, because you're looking for a scare that does not exist.Narsil wrote:You know what I don't understand about all this? The persistent transphobia of some people here.
If you find your science at the back of a box of cereals, maybe. Otherwise, in the real world, it's patently false.I mean, I literally do not understand the mindset behind it. It's usually the case of someone who has, as science has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, been born with the wrong body for their brain chemistry.
Again, no. That's the story they peddle but it's *totally false*.It isn't always this exact reason, but regardless it is almost always the case of someone whose mind is trapped within the wrong body.
Considering that it's not just about the brain, this claim will simply meet a resounding no.And since the brain itself is the more important part, this person (regardless of whatever the rest of their biology says) should be considered to have the gender that they identify with.
You fail at logic. It's precisely because it is out of normality (which is fairly straight forward as far as sex goes) that it is wrong.Now, many people have raised what I like to call 'the normality argument', which isn't actually an argument at all but a logical fallacy. Just because something isn't common or 'normal' does not make it wrong.
No. The norm IS the norm. It's called a norm for a reason and has been established and understood that way since man is man.And in fact trying to enforce your normative views on these individuals is itself wrong.
Typical. It's like monday training.Allow me to explain, using homosexuality as a starting point;
Let's think of a gay man who was forced to try and adjust to society's norms, and let's think about what would happen to him. He would, under certain laws, either be sent to prison, outright executed, or forced to endure treatments to try and curtail his sex drive. Assuming the latter, the man would suffer physiological and psychological side-effects of this treatment, and would naturally as a result of his horrible situation, being treated as little more than an aberration in society... enter a deep and dark depression from which it seems the only way out is to take his own life.
His being gay caused no harm to anyone. It did not cause harm to himself, either, as the only harm done to him was because of society's treatment of him. Even if we assume that homosexuality is a choice (which it is not!), it is still his choice, and one which he ought to have been free to make.
But you see, I'm not talking about a random hypothetical individual here. I'm talking about a specific individual called Alan Turing, the person who could be termed the father of modern computing and without whom you would not be posting your hateful spiel all over the fucking internet. This right here is why I hate the term 'normal', because the term, as it is often used, is little more than a way to try and marginalise and oppress those are different. I have suffered personally from this, due to being autistic.
But ultimately when trying to determine why, I get stuck. I try to distance myself from the attitudes of those who call themselves 'rationalists', due to many of their own horrible viewpoints on women, but I do consider myself at least a vaguely rational person. And from my perspective, the hatred for gay and trans people isn't just irrational, it's nonsensically irrational. There is no reason I can determine as to why you would hate someone for who he or she feels like he or she is, or who he or she would fall in love with. It's pointless and hateful and makes no fucking sense.
Why would a sensible, feeling human being act this way towards another?
Please tell me honestly, because I'm afraid that I do not understand.