spacebattles has splintered

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Mith
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Re: spacebattles has splintered

Post by Mith » Fri May 02, 2014 12:45 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote:LOL.
http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/ ... me.296825/
Feceshugger is now supermod. Magnificent. It really was worth the trouble. :D
Actually, he WAS a supermod. Now he's an admin.

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Re: spacebattles has splintered

Post by Mike DiCenso » Fri May 02, 2014 3:27 am

Either way you slice it, I don't see anything getting better over at SBC any time soon. Even with the recent Disney SW canon announcement, I doubt they'll relax one bit against anyone who dares suggest that SW firepower is anything but gigatons or teratons, and you can bet that they'll find an excuse somehow to keep the ICS as a vaild source to back it up.
-Mike

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Re: spacebattles has splintered

Post by Trinoya » Fri May 02, 2014 9:49 am

Actually in a shocking twist I saw a number of people back off of the position and were quite happy that "star wars can be debated again."

It may be that the younger generations are ready to have a real debate again.

That said, there was a bit of butthurt over all, but a few people kept their cool. Hell some warsies on spacebattles abandoned the ICS eons ago just because it killed the debate.

Still, I did see at least one person jump onto the asteroid scene for his wankatons... so.... change won't be fast I'd wager.. Time will tell.

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Re: spacebattles has splintered

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Fri May 02, 2014 8:38 pm

Mith wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote:LOL.
http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/ ... me.296825/
Feceshugger is now supermod. Magnificent. It really was worth the trouble. :D
Actually, he WAS a supermod. Now he's an admin.
I see.
So now, when someone asks me if it's worth registering at spacebattles, I'll just have to deliver something akin to that in return:

"Since CPL_Facehugger has gone from mod to supermod to admin, absolutely no. Satiate your curiosity with seldom lurking at best."

It also formidably explains why he had so much leeway in his moderating methods and opinions, and how the deck was so stacked against us in ways we barely suspected. You can't tell me numerous people didn't complain about his decisions several years ago when the ICS/EU debates were in full swing.

It also has me wonder what Thanatos really did to reach beyond the line and really get the admins that angry.

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Re: spacebattles has splintered

Post by Admiral Breetai » Sat May 03, 2014 10:26 pm

A lot of people are talking about Athena flipping her shit and projecting her personal opinions and issues with transgendered topics on the user base, that apparently as Thanatos he was very against it (likely stemming from his, now hers own identity crisis her insecurity on the fact that she was secretly dealing with that issue) and started venting on all threads related to the topic, picking fights and generally working her own emotional issues out on the forum. This was seen as justified and totally okay...and several users and admin received death threats..

fucking lovely, the biggest issue, the biggest mistake the staff made..is the one nobodies addressing and I'm hoping it's out of love for Athena and not..friggen out of a twisted sense of political correctness. It's very simple...Athena was undergoing a deeply traumatic change in herself and was having a metrick fuckton of personal issues her stability and ability to properly and objectively govern the forums was in question due to said issues and she was apparently visibly messing up. The staff should have demoted her temporarily the moment she came out as transitioning..given her a year or two off to work out her issues (because raging in topics is fine as a member..not as a mod with the power to ban others for your sins) stress that it would be a temporary thing and as soon as she was in a better place she would be welcome back into the fold with open arms and no questioning or using that period against her..

this was not done, and you already had idiots on the site bawwing about the SB staff being transphobic, which was just fucking offensive in how pathetic a low blow it was. But the entire god damn fiasco could have been avoided had they simply opted for some discretion and better judgment with her needs and issues.

I mean someone who is not in a stable frame of mind..does not have any business being in a position to make judgment calls no matter how minor - that affect other peoples lives.

They brought this on themselves for not having the decency to protect her and protect her userbase by taking those actions..and their demoting her then citing actions she may or may not have taken while in a bad way, is just silly. She took those actions (if she took them at all) because they allowed her too..period.

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Re: spacebattles has splintered

Post by Jedi Master Spock » Sun May 04, 2014 7:09 am

Admiral Breetai wrote:A lot of people are talking about Athena flipping her shit and projecting her personal opinions and issues with transgendered topics on the user base, that apparently as Thanatos he was very against it (likely stemming from his, now hers own identity crisis her insecurity on the fact that she was secretly dealing with that issue) and started venting on all threads related to the topic, picking fights and generally working her own emotional issues out on the forum. This was seen as justified and totally okay...and several users and admin received death threats..

fucking lovely, the biggest issue, the biggest mistake the staff made..is the one nobodies addressing and I'm hoping it's out of love for Athena and not..friggen out of a twisted sense of political correctness. It's very simple...Athena was undergoing a deeply traumatic change in herself and was having a metrick fuckton of personal issues her stability and ability to properly and objectively govern the forums was in question due to said issues and she was apparently visibly messing up. The staff should have demoted her temporarily the moment she came out as transitioning..given her a year or two off to work out her issues (because raging in topics is fine as a member..not as a mod with the power to ban others for your sins) stress that it would be a temporary thing and as soon as she was in a better place she would be welcome back into the fold with open arms and no questioning or using that period against her..

this was not done, and you already had idiots on the site bawwing about the SB staff being transphobic, which was just fucking offensive in how pathetic a low blow it was. But the entire god damn fiasco could have been avoided had they simply opted for some discretion and better judgment with her needs and issues.

I mean someone who is not in a stable frame of mind..does not have any business being in a position to make judgment calls no matter how minor - that affect other peoples lives.

They brought this on themselves for not having the decency to protect her and protect her userbase by taking those actions..and their demoting her then citing actions she may or may not have taken while in a bad way, is just silly. She took those actions (if she took them at all) because they allowed her too..period.
Thanatos was the first person on this forum (almost a year and a half into this forum's operation) to earn a temporary ban. (This was back at the end of 2007.) The reason was rudeness (and Thanatos had to be very persistently rude in the face of repeated warnings to earn that temp ban). I appreciated Thanatos's period of visiting our board in spite of that; I haven't had very many opportunities to have shiny formal debates with someone, and my debate with Thanatos was probably one of the best bits of spectacle we've had here.

We've seen lots of complaints posted in this forum section about SB.com moderators being unfair, including Thanatos. More directly, I have seen first-hand that Thanatos had difficulty maintaining an even temper online. Even a moderator who takes pains to be fair and who isn't somewhat rude from time to time will get complaints.

I would suspect a priori that the people who are complaining the loudest about a major personality change are not those observing fundamentally different behavior from Athena, but those who found themselves disagreeing with Athena (and facing her less agreeable side) when they had previously agreed with Thanatos. That's a recipe for losing allies, and it's easier to make enemies out of friends than friends out of enemies. Does that seem like a fair guess to you?

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Re: spacebattles has splintered

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sun May 04, 2014 3:14 pm

Admiral Breetai wrote:A lot of people are talking about Athena flipping her shit and projecting her personal opinions and issues with transgendered topics on the user base, that apparently as Thanatos he was very against it (likely stemming from his, now hers own identity crisis her insecurity on the fact that she was secretly dealing with that issue) and started venting on all threads related to the topic, picking fights and generally working her own emotional issues out on the forum. This was seen as justified and totally okay...and several users and admin received death threats..

fucking lovely, the biggest issue, the biggest mistake the staff made..is the one nobodies addressing and I'm hoping it's out of love for Athena and not..friggen out of a twisted sense of political correctness. It's very simple...Athena was undergoing a deeply traumatic change in herself and was having a metrick fuckton of personal issues her stability and ability to properly and objectively govern the forums was in question due to said issues and she was apparently visibly messing up. The staff should have demoted her temporarily the moment she came out as transitioning..given her a year or two off to work out her issues (because raging in topics is fine as a member..not as a mod with the power to ban others for your sins) stress that it would be a temporary thing and as soon as she was in a better place she would be welcome back into the fold with open arms and no questioning or using that period against her..

this was not done, and you already had idiots on the site bawwing about the SB staff being transphobic, which was just fucking offensive in how pathetic a low blow it was. But the entire god damn fiasco could have been avoided had they simply opted for some discretion and better judgment with her needs and issues.

I mean someone who is not in a stable frame of mind..does not have any business being in a position to make judgment calls no matter how minor - that affect other peoples lives.

They brought this on themselves for not having the decency to protect her and protect her userbase by taking those actions..and their demoting her then citing actions she may or may not have taken while in a bad way, is just silly. She took those actions (if she took them at all) because they allowed her too..period.
And what about Thanatos' responsability in this affair? Aside from the fact that he already was less than a stellar mod to begin with, he was the first aware of what was going on. He, and no one else, should have acted in a mature way and talked to the staff about what he was going through.

I could be wrong here, but it looks like Thanatos didn't exactly come forth openly about what he was going through. It seems the staff more or less got the news in a rather surprising way. And that would be where there's been a huge problem at first.

Regardless of one's opinion on the admins and staff, remember that they're normal folk. Normal folk as your average Joe not used to deal with the emotional breakdown of an individual going through a stressful, nearly mind boggling chemical-hormonal-mental and above all very artificial transition. No one is prepared for that kind of thing, no one has experienced in these matters save for specialized doctors and psychologists.
There's no way the staff could have handled that properly on their own or even guessed what would have happened. It is not their domain of competence.
However, Thanatos knew what would happen because people transitioning are not thrown into the wild with only a pack of cigs, a kiss on the cheek and best wishes. There is a whole psychological support involved here.

Aside from the cock up, I'd put the blame on Thanatos here mainly, as he should have come forth and acted as a responsible adult, told the staff he'd need to take some distance for a consequent amount of time and be temporarily demoded so his rather exceptional case would have never turned into some "nuclear/emotional" rollercoaster fiasco that few would have known how to deal with.

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Re: spacebattles has splintered

Post by Admiral Breetai » Mon May 05, 2014 7:02 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote: And what about Thanatos' responsability in this affair? Aside from the fact that he already was less than a stellar mod to begin with, he was the first aware of what was going on. He, and no one else, should have acted in a mature way and talked to the staff about what he was going through.
I'm assuming she told them before she told any one else, had she not..then she is to blame

Mr. Oragahn wrote: I could be wrong here, but it looks like Thanatos didn't exactly come forth openly about what he was going through. It seems the staff more or less got the news in a rather surprising way. And that would be where there's been a huge problem at first.
I don't know that this is or isn't true.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:Regardless of one's opinion on the admins and staff, remember that they're normal folk. Normal folk as your average Joe not used to deal with the emotional breakdown of an individual going through a stressful, nearly mind boggling chemical-hormonal-mental and above all very artificial transition. No one is prepared for that kind of thing, no one has experienced in these matters save for specialized doctors and psychologists.
There's no way the staff could have handled that properly on their own or even guessed what would have happened. It is not their domain of competence.
However, Thanatos knew what would happen because people transitioning are not thrown into the wild with only a pack of cigs, a kiss on the cheek and best wishes. There is a whole psychological support involved here.
conceded, but "joe blow reaperman" still should have had the foresight to temporarily suspend her mod duties
Mr. Oragahn wrote: Aside from the cock up, I'd put the blame on Thanatos here mainly, as he should have come forth and acted as a responsible adult, told the staff he'd need to take some distance for a consequent amount of time and be temporarily demoded so his rather exceptional case would have never turned into some "nuclear/emotional" rollercoaster fiasco that few would have known how to deal with.
I think all "responsible" adults failed in this situation...the mere fact that Admins resigned while they were getting death threats is testament to this

I'd delete a site before I yielded it to any group that pathetic.
Jedi Master Spock wrote:
I would suspect a priori that the people who are complaining the loudest about a major personality change are not those observing fundamentally different behavior from Athena, but those who found themselves disagreeing with Athena (and facing her less agreeable side) when they had previously agreed with Thanatos. That's a recipe for losing allies, and it's easier to make enemies out of friends than friends out of enemies. Does that seem like a fair guess to you?
It does, and it's sad then..because Athene never had friends or followers, she had sycophants and that was and has been the only support she's had on that site.

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Re: spacebattles has splintered

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Mon May 05, 2014 10:41 pm

Perhaps the admins were caught by surprise and were afraid of charged of "transphobia" by a vocal part of the local plebe?
Them backing off after the threats would go that way.

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Re: spacebattles has splintered

Post by Admiral Breetai » Tue May 06, 2014 6:46 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote:Perhaps the admins were caught by surprise and were afraid of charged of "transphobia" by a vocal part of the local plebe?
Them backing off after the threats would go that way.
that's exactly the situation they blundered into, mass shouts of Transphobia to all dissent everywhere.

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Re: spacebattles has splintered

Post by Mith » Thu May 08, 2014 11:10 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:Either way you slice it, I don't see anything getting better over at SBC any time soon. Even with the recent Disney SW canon announcement, I doubt they'll relax one bit against anyone who dares suggest that SW firepower is anything but gigatons or teratons, and you can bet that they'll find an excuse somehow to keep the ICS as a vaild source to back it up.
-Mike
It hasn't worked thus far.

The only way to sneak the teratons through the backdoor is to use the EU in the OP and even that comes with the usual problem of the rest of the EU, so most posters just make it ICS based to begin with (if they go that route). There has been no attempt by the staff to impose gigatons.

Facehugger has also fallen out of the SW debate; he's moved on. The last time I recall him even bothering to weigh in was I think maybe a year or so ago, in regards to Chee suggesting the ICS. Many people used it as a clincher to say that ICS should override everything else. Face's response is that people should just produce evidence and arguments, not bicker and argue over one little piece of errata.
Mith wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote:LOL.
http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/ ... me.296825/
Feceshugger is now supermod. Magnificent. It really was worth the trouble. :D
Actually, he WAS a supermod. Now he's an admin.
I see.
So now, when someone asks me if it's worth registering at spacebattles, I'll just have to deliver something akin to that in return:

"Since CPL_Facehugger has gone from mod to supermod to admin, absolutely no. Satiate your curiosity with seldom lurking at best."

It also formidably explains why he had so much leeway in his moderating methods and opinions, and how the deck was so stacked against us in ways we barely suspected. You can't tell me numerous people didn't complain about his decisions several years ago when the ICS/EU debates were in full swing.

It also has me wonder what Thanatos really did to reach beyond the line and really get the admins that angry.[/quote]

She didn't do anything outrageous actually. One might get the impression it was the public shaming of Robot Jones/Doctor Nails/Whoever, but the guy was apparently a shit poster (ie, posters were given the function to delete OP posts to reduce on accidental double threads--Robot Jones used it as a means of erasing threads he was losing in. Athene decided to re-sticky it and gave him a spanking in front of the class, so to speak), so it wasn't that.

What we've been able to get out of the mods is that some mods complained about her decisions and the admins looked into it and counted stuff months or years old against her. Then they dropped the hammer. It was also completely unsupported by the majority of the mod staff.
Jedi Master Spock wrote: Thanatos was the first person on this forum (almost a year and a half into this forum's operation) to earn a temporary ban. (This was back at the end of 2007.) The reason was rudeness (and Thanatos had to be very persistently rude in the face of repeated warnings to earn that temp ban). I appreciated Thanatos's period of visiting our board in spite of that; I haven't had very many opportunities to have shiny formal debates with someone, and my debate with Thanatos was probably one of the best bits of spectacle we've had here.

We've seen lots of complaints posted in this forum section about SB.com moderators being unfair, including Thanatos. More directly, I have seen first-hand that Thanatos had difficulty maintaining an even temper online. Even a moderator who takes pains to be fair and who isn't somewhat rude from time to time will get complaints.

I would suspect a priori that the people who are complaining the loudest about a major personality change are not those observing fundamentally different behavior from Athena, but those who found themselves disagreeing with Athena (and facing her less agreeable side) when they had previously agreed with Thanatos. That's a recipe for losing allies, and it's easier to make enemies out of friends than friends out of enemies. Does that seem like a fair guess to you?
I have to admit to not closely following Athene recently. It has nothing to do with changes, but my habit of going dark for long periods of time. However, she has admitted that in the past, she did try to overcompensate on the macho department simply because she wanted to be as manly as possible (ie, terrified if anyone found out what she really was).

I will say she's been more aggressive against those less tolerant, but from my understanding, this was personal disagreements. She never actually moderated the threads she had those problems with. Like I said, I can't say with total certainty, but the general impression I was getting was that her new life-outlook had made her somewhat overaggressive in the subject, which I suppose is understandable, so I gave her a pass. Perhaps some people didn't.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:And what about Thanatos' responsability in this affair? Aside from the fact that he already was less than a stellar mod to begin with, he was the first aware of what was going on. He, and no one else, should have acted in a mature way and talked to the staff about what he was going through.

I could be wrong here, but it looks like Thanatos didn't exactly come forth openly about what he was going through. It seems the staff more or less got the news in a rather surprising way. And that would be where there's been a huge problem at first.

Regardless of one's opinion on the admins and staff, remember that they're normal folk. Normal folk as your average Joe not used to deal with the emotional breakdown of an individual going through a stressful, nearly mind boggling chemical-hormonal-mental and above all very artificial transition. No one is prepared for that kind of thing, no one has experienced in these matters save for specialized doctors and psychologists.
There's no way the staff could have handled that properly on their own or even guessed what would have happened. It is not their domain of competence.
However, Thanatos knew what would happen because people transitioning are not thrown into the wild with only a pack of cigs, a kiss on the cheek and best wishes. There is a whole psychological support involved here.

Aside from the cock up, I'd put the blame on Thanatos here mainly, as he should have come forth and acted as a responsible adult, told the staff he'd need to take some distance for a consequent amount of time and be temporarily demoded so his rather exceptional case would have never turned into some "nuclear/emotional" rollercoaster fiasco that few would have known how to deal with.
Well, I would have addressed the admins in private about the whole affair, which may have allowed it to be fixed behind the scenes and avoid the problem, which might have been possible if not for several problems.

1) Athene didn't see her PM first; she found out through the grapevine and felt as though she'd bee betrayed. From her end, the Admins had spoken to her once, months ago about their concerns and they apparently weren't very solid then. When they got a complaint or two later, they decided to act without discussing it.

2) Athene is/was very emotionally invested in Spacebattles. Not that it does you any good, but after a while as a mod, she chilled the fuck out in vs debates and basically left it alone. Perhaps that's because no one has led another campaign against 40k biggatons, but she left mod duties to others. Unfortunately, one of those is Super4, but Athene has corrected him before when politically, it wouldn't make sense for her to do so.

3) Athene has had some issues recently. One is her therapist saying that people online aren't your friends, not truly. It's hard to know what angle her therapist is working, but she took it personally. Then she shows up to SB to find that and...well, the damn exploded. The admins caught the brunt of it.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:Perhaps the admins were caught by surprise and were afraid of charged of "transphobia" by a vocal part of the local plebe?
Them backing off after the threats would go that way.
No, that isn't Reaper's style. Reaper doesn't accept banning people for their opinions, save for one occasion, where he banned Dayton3 for saying that he wanted the day to come where all gay people were so terrified for their lives, that they'd go in the closet and stay in there, living proper straight lives in fear.

That would suggest that he'd have less of a problem with transgender and even if he did, he'd be less likely to punish Athene for it. The fact is, they fucked up, as people do. Except they did it in the worst possible way, to someone who wasn't exactly emotionally stable, and they had it uncovered in front of a user base that isn't half as objective as it thinks it is.

Really, only a minority were making a stink about it being a transgender thing--most were upset by their approach and the actual decision.


That said, you can make an account on SV if you like. Everyone has a clean slate there, so if you want to make debates, go right ahead. While I won't say that Athene is some sort of figure that can do no wrong, she has improved in many areas as a mod since those incidents.

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Re: spacebattles has splintered

Post by theta_pinch » Thu May 08, 2014 12:19 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:Either way you slice it, I don't see anything getting better over at SBC any time soon. Even with the recent Disney SW canon announcement, I doubt they'll relax one bit against anyone who dares suggest that SW firepower is anything but gigatons or teratons, and you can bet that they'll find an excuse somehow to keep the ICS as a vaild source to back it up.
-Mike
Yeah they are still claiming gigatons to teratons based on Dodonna calcs with the superlaser, and scaling down the death star.

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Re: spacebattles has splintered

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Fri May 09, 2014 11:36 am

Mith wrote: She didn't do anything outrageous actually. One might get the impression it was the public shaming of Robot Jones/Doctor Nails/Whoever, but the guy was apparently a shit poster (ie, posters were given the function to delete OP posts to reduce on accidental double threads--Robot Jones used it as a means of erasing threads he was losing in. Athene decided to re-sticky it and gave him a spanking in front of the class, so to speak), so it wasn't that.

What we've been able to get out of the mods is that some mods complained about her decisions and the admins looked into it and counted stuff months or years old against her. Then they dropped the hammer. It was also completely unsupported by the majority of the mod staff.
The problem with the mod support/agreement is that when it comes to SB it somehow means jack shit.
YMCA* is an example of that, despite alegedly pissing off a shit ton of members.
Thanatos and CPLF banning people just because they didn't agree with them was equally bad, and obviously other mods didn't really care.
Ultimately this isn't a democracy. You try to make your point the most compelling possible, and then let the local overlords decide of the faith of some peon.
This does not mean the admins were right in their opinion about what some people reproached Thanatos though.
Now you got to admit it's problematic to consider that some mods may overcompensate through manly mod powers or whatever because of their troublesome lives.

*HCBM... whatever
Well, I would have addressed the admins in private about the whole affair, which may have allowed it to be fixed behind the scenes and avoid the problem, which might have been possible if not for several problems.

1) Athene didn't see her PM first; she found out through the grapevine and felt as though she'd bee betrayed. From her end, the Admins had spoken to her once, months ago about their concerns and they apparently weren't very solid then. When they got a complaint or two later, they decided to act without discussing it.

2) Athene is/was very emotionally invested in Spacebattles. Not that it does you any good, but after a while as a mod, she chilled the fuck out in vs debates and basically left it alone. Perhaps that's because no one has led another campaign against 40k biggatons, but she left mod duties to others. Unfortunately, one of those is Super4, but Athene has corrected him before when politically, it wouldn't make sense for her to do so.

3) Athene has had some issues recently. One is her therapist saying that people online aren't your friends, not truly. It's hard to know what angle her therapist is working, but she took it personally. Then she shows up to SB to find that and...well, the damn exploded. The admins caught the brunt of it.
(1) was stupid, definitely. Oddly enough, I've read his posts when he landed in the announcement thread, and there wasn't anything really HUGE aside from the obvious lack of diplomatic and good manners and him reacting, I'd say, normally to it, mildly pissed off and calling a cat a cat. The vitriol could have been far, far worse. It's above all the mob that really shouted at the palace, waving the proverbial spikes, foaming and calling for heads to roll and all that.
(2) won't get him any points as far as I'm concerned. :)
(3) unfortunate convergence of events. The Gods' humour is definitely not tailored for everyone.
Mr. Oragahn wrote:Perhaps the admins were caught by surprise and were afraid of [being] charged of "transphobia" by a vocal part of the local plebe?
Them backing off after the threats would go that way.
No, that isn't Reaper's style. Reaper doesn't accept banning people for their opinions, save for one occasion, where he banned Dayton3 for saying that he wanted the day to come where all gay people were so terrified for their lives, that they'd go in the closet and stay in there, living proper straight lives in fear.

That would suggest that he'd have less of a problem with transgender and even if he did, he'd be less likely to punish Athene for it. The fact is, they fucked up, as people do. Except they did it in the worst possible way, to someone who wasn't exactly emotionally stable, and they had it uncovered in front of a user base that isn't half as objective as it thinks it is.

Really, only a minority were making a stink about it being a transgender thing--most were upset by their approach and the actual decision.
OK, what I meant is that Reaperman and co didn't want to look like transphobic or something. We know how far this can go. The trans community has an entire (crappy) forum they use to agregate a complete array of all stupid, dissenting or supposedly caveman opinions they can find here and there. There are some factors which you don't want to play with these days, when you have some active groups heavily entrenched into über political correctness and can be a pain for your board. You don't want to get a tumultuous community hosting some hackers turning its eyes on you, or worse, suddenly finding your community making the headlines of some local newspapers because of political issues until it goes up and you serve as an example on the altar of all out modernity. The thing with Internet these days is that you cannot predict how things can blow out of proportions if some people really decide to play all their cards to make you eat your acrid soup and the bowl with it.
That said, you can make an account on SV if you like. Everyone has a clean slate there, so if you want to make debates, go right ahead. While I won't say that Athene is some sort of figure that can do no wrong, she has improved in many areas as a mod since those incidents.
Would Athene allow me to refer to him as he though?
I have no will to alter the unique, essential and proper definition of a woman, and no discussion board or the emotional vagaries of an handicapped individual are worth this price.

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Re: spacebattles has splintered

Post by Mith » Fri May 09, 2014 4:15 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:The problem with the mod support/agreement is that when it comes to SB it somehow means jack shit.
YMCA* is an example of that, despite alegedly pissing off a shit ton of members.
Thanatos and CPLF banning people just because they didn't agree with them was equally bad, and obviously other mods didn't really care.
Ultimately this isn't a democracy. You try to make your point the most compelling possible, and then let the local overlords decide of the faith of some peon.
This does not mean the admins were right in their opinion about what some people reproached Thanatos though.
Now you got to admit it's problematic to consider that some mods may overcompensate through manly mod powers or whatever because of their troublesome lives.

*HCBM... whatever
The problem is, which Reaperman basically admitted to, is that the admins generally ignore complaints against mods, specifically because they assume that people are just butthurt. While logical to assume that most are just people being bitchy, the fact is that they never considered any complaint against Athene until a mod made the complaint tells me that those two had certain failings in their jobs.
(1) was stupid, definitely. Oddly enough, I've read his posts when he landed in the announcement thread, and there wasn't anything really HUGE aside from the obvious lack of diplomatic and good manners and him reacting, I'd say, normally to it, mildly pissed off and calling a cat a cat. The vitriol could have been far, far worse. It's above all the mob that really shouted at the palace, waving the proverbial spikes, foaming and calling for heads to roll and all that.
I think it all escalated very quickly, impart due to number three. Of course, the admins went about it in all the wrong way.
(2) won't get him any points as far as I'm concerned. :)
Well, until she apologizes for that incident, yes, it doesn't fix what she did wrong in the past.
(3) unfortunate convergence of events. The Gods' humour is definitely not tailored for everyone.
No, it isn't, but it's not surprising the way this ended up. What I'm most annoyed about are the members of SB--they immediately lost their shit and started making brazen accusations that had no logic behind them. I can tell being upset in the way she got fired (which was bullshit--the admins could have removed her mod powers without actually removing her from the mod list and worked it out ahead of time) and the complete lack of sensitivity in the manner, but it is obvious that a lot of the outrage came from the fact that Athene was well-liked. If it had been SuperS4 or HBMC, no one would have really cared.
OK, what I meant is that Reaperman and co didn't want to look like transphobic or something. We know how far this can go. The trans community has an entire (crappy) forum they use to agregate a complete array of all stupid, dissenting or supposedly caveman opinions they can find here and there. There are some factors which you don't want to play with these days, when you have some active groups heavily entrenched into über political correctness and can be a pain for your board. You don't want to get a tumultuous community hosting some hackers turning its eyes on you, or worse, suddenly finding your community making the headlines of some local newspapers because of political issues until it goes up and you serve as an example on the altar of all out modernity. The thing with Internet these days is that you cannot predict how things can blow out of proportions if some people really decide to play all their cards to make you eat your acrid soup and the bowl with it.
I'm sure that was a concern they had, but I don't honestly think that outside of a few, anyone really thought that. It simply doesn't align with either of their belief systems or stated politics. And they're very hands-off in regards to that subject. Datyon3's banning was legendary on SB at that point. Unless people can't connect two and two, they would have realized how absurd it would be to make that assumption.

Then again, we are talking about an angry mob.
Would Athene allow me to refer to him as he though?
I have no will to alter the unique, essential and proper definition of a woman, and no discussion board or the emotional vagaries of an handicapped individual are worth this price.
I'm sorry, what?

I'd think she'd want you to refer to her as well, her gender, but there's no rule against it that I know of, although they might cite you for trolling. I'm not sure why you'd consider her a him, since she's transgender.

Transgender isn't someone believing they're a she instead of a he. Their brains basically developed a female brain--their brain is literally female, while the rest is male. It's like someone uploading a Wii's program into a 360 and wondering why it won't accept 360 games. She's always been a she, persona wise. Getting a sex change is really just rigging your 360 hardware into something akin to a Wii's.

sonofccn
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Re: spacebattles has splintered

Post by sonofccn » Fri May 09, 2014 6:38 pm

Mith wrote:Snip
Ouch, Can't say I ever was a fan of Thantos/Athena but from what your saying Athena kinda got a raw deal. Which, whatever disagreements I might otherwise have, is a pity.
Mith wrote:I'm sorry, what?

I'd think she'd want you to refer to her as well, her gender, but there's no rule against it that I know of, although they might cite you for trolling. I'm not sure why you'd consider her a him, since she's transgender.

Transgender isn't someone believing they're a she instead of a he. Their brains basically developed a female brain--their brain is literally female, while the rest is male. It's like someone uploading a Wii's program into a 360 and wondering why it won't accept 360 games. She's always been a she, persona wise. Getting a sex change is really just rigging your 360 hardware into something akin to a Wii's.
Well, at the risk of rekindling a horrifically bad debate from the forum's past, I believe it would be fair to point out the above position is not universally accepted, either on the web or in society in general, and while I can not speak for Oragahn I know I wouldn't consider Athena female and would consider it a contradiction of my beliefs to be forced to utilize terms like "her" and "she" in relation to Athena.

Oh and sorry if this sounds like I'm being brusque or rude or that I'm attacking you or anything. That truly is not my intention...I don't know. Wasn't really planning on replying to this thread but saw you and Oragahn's exchanges and felt like I had to say something.

Granted this is still not the wierdest discussion I've been part of, not even by a long shot. So there's that.:)

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