Here Ye, Hear Me

[2046]

If you'll forgive a touch of self-promotion, I let a persuasive bloke talk me into a full-on guest spot on his podcast. It should be uploaded tomorrow . . . his 76th episode, if my math is right.

http://nerdculturepodcast.com/

In it, you'll hear me imitating a popsicle . . . this due to letting a stray but talkative cat in from the cold, meaning I ended up having to go out into it for the purpose of the interview. So, I think I'm going to sound shiver-y.

Also, I forgot almost every single thing I wanted to say, so it is thus my natural rambling. (Suffice it to say, I'm better in text.)

Enjoy!

[Praeothmin]

What's yours about?
There are links to many, and as we all know, "the links of the many outweigh the links of the one"...

[2046]

I'll link to it when it comes out.

The only bad part is that I can already hear the SDN re-edits wherein they'll have me saying things like "Worf arouses me" or "George Lucas ate my man-bits" or similar silly things.

[2046]

http://nerdculturepodcast.com/2014/01/p ... pisode-76/

Bo and David are joined by special guest Robert from ST-vSW.net and discuss all things Star Trek vs Star Wars, including the difference in Fans, Canon rules and changes, the imposter Spock & who would win in a dogfight between the Millennium Falcon and the Defiant…and much much more!

We had about two hours of conversation and I've learned he whittled it down to one hour, so maybe I'll be less rambly. I'll find out in a minute when I listen to it.

[2046]

Other than a momentary numeric dyslexia, I think it plays okay. Some of my examples and analogies are removed for time, which makes me think that it will make less sense overall.

For instance, the "smack" reference was in relation to Sherlock Holmes in between cases doing all sorts of nonsense (including drugs) just to keep the wits sharp.

Also, on the topic of bias, I compared the Vs. Debate internet website landscape before I came along to cars. I made the analogy that it was sort of like having a bunch of General Motors fanboy websites talking about how Fords are all made of tin foil with candles for headlights and gerbil-wheels for engines while GM cars are all armored tanks with antimatter engines and naked fusion headlights.

One need not be a biased Ford fanboy to defend the facts of the case, that they're both steel and both have normal bulb headlights.

Also, the host left me plenty of room to go into detail about the psychoses of the opposition, but I decided not to go there much other than a passing reference to Talifandom, without explanation.

Also, sadly, my plugs of Nathan Butler's Star Wars Timeline Gold and Bernd's Ex Astris Scientia (as part of the whole note of how the Romulans look different in the JJ-verse) got chopped. Oh well.

All in all, it was fun, and hopefully there's not enough there for the opposition to twist.

[2046]

Now featuring fun comments, including perhaps the best example of an appeal to authority fallacy from the opposition in recent memory, as well as Brian Young having a peculiar reaction to criticism (ironically juxtaposed with an actual well-poisoning in the opening comment).

[Lucky]

Other than a momentary numeric dyslexia, I think it plays okay. Some of my examples and analogies are removed for time, which makes me think that it will make less sense overall.

For instance, the "smack" reference was in relation to Sherlock Holmes in between cases doing all sorts of nonsense (including drugs) just to keep the wits sharp.

Also, on the topic of bias, I compared the Vs. Debate internet website landscape before I came along to cars. I made the analogy that it was sort of like having a bunch of General Motors fanboy websites talking about how Fords are all made of tin foil with candles for headlights and gerbil-wheels for engines while GM cars are all armored tanks with antimatter engines and naked fusion headlights.

One need not be a biased Ford fanboy to defend the facts of the case, that they're both steel and both have normal bulb headlights.

Also, the host left me plenty of room to go into detail about the psychoses of the opposition, but I decided not to go there much other than a passing reference to Talifandom, without explanation.

Also, sadly, my plugs of Nathan Butler's Star Wars Timeline Gold and Bernd's Ex Astris Scientia (as part of the whole note of how the Romulans look different in the JJ-verse) got chopped. Oh well.

All in all, it was fun, and hopefully there's not enough there for the opposition to twist.

I can't figureout why Brian Young would accuse you of bad mouthing him unless he thinks everyone who posted in threads here are nothing but sock puppet accounts you use?

Episode 1 is better then episodes 2, and 3.

Star Trek 4 is the best Star Trek movie.

Not all nebula effect ships in an adverse manner.

I'm pretty sure that Star Trek is inconsistent with what time travel does.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/trekn ... eneral.htm

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/trekn ... el-tos.htm

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/trekn ... el-tng.htm

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/trekn ... el-ds9.htm

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/trekn ... el-voy.htm

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/trekn ... el-ent.htm

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/trekn ... trekxi.htm

Then there is this:

DATA: I believe the quantum fissure we discovered is a fixed point across the space time continuum. A keyhole which intersects many other quantum realities. 


TROI: What do you mean, quantum realities? 


DATA: For any event, there is an infinite number of possible outcomes. Our choices determine which outcomes will follow. But there is a theory in quantum physics that all possibilities that can happen, do happen in alternate quantum realities. 


WORF: And somehow I have been shifting from one reality to another. 


DATA: That is correct. 


TROI: How did this happen? 


DATA: When Worf's shuttlecraft came into contact with the quantum fissure, I believe its warp engines caused a small break in the barriers between quantum realties. Worf was thrown into a state of quantum flux. He immediately shifted into other realities. 


CRUSHER: And Geordi's visor somehow triggered that effect? 


DATA: Exactly. The visor uses a subspace field pulse. I believe that whenever Geordi came near Worf, the field pulse intensified the quantum flux and pushed Worf into another reality. 


WORF: How can we find my original quantum state and return me to it? 


WESLEY: We could scan the quantum fissure using a subspace differential pulse. Maybe we could locate the quantum state that shares Worf's signature and find a way to get him back. 


DATA: An excellent idea, Lieutenant.

It would appear that for every time they fixed the timeline they may also failed to fix the timeline and everything in between at the same time.

[Mike DiCenso]

I posted this reply on the Nerd Culture website and I'm reposting it here in response to Brian Young's crocodile tears video which was referred to me this morning by Nowhereman.


I'm disappointed in you, Brian. Very disappointed. Let me address some of what was in your very manipulative little video. First off, just counting off how many clips you put in a case study is of no bearing when often you take a lot of that evidence out of context in the episode. Let me run through a few examples take from my critique of your Minbari vs Federation case study that I linked to just to give some examples:

1.) In the case study you claim that Federation speeds are limited to those of the 1,000 to 2,000c speeds of the non-canon The Star Trek the Next Generation Technical Manual while disregarding many examples in the TOS canon that were far higher. For example I give in my critique several examples that clearly contradict the one sole source you chose to go with such as this one I gave from the season two episode "Obsession" :

KIRK: Whatever it is, Doctor, whatever it is, wouldn't you call it deadly?

MCCOY: Yes, there's no doubt about that.

KIRK: And what if it is the same creature that attacked eleven years ago from a planet over a thousand light years from here?

SPOCK: Obviously, Captain, if it is an intelligent creature, if it is the same one, if it therefore is capable of space travel, it could pose a great threat to inhabited planets.

That planet is Tycho IV and is stated here to be "over a thousand light years" away. Later a time estimate to reach that planet and return across that distance to rendezvous with another starship is given:

KIRK: Yes, I think I do. I don't know how I know, but home is where it fought a starship once before. (to Uhura) Inform them of our tactical situation and inform them I'm committing this vessel to the destruction of the creature. We will rendezvous. Round-trip time, Mister Chekov.

CHEKOV: One point seven days, sir.

KIRK: We will rendezvous with the USS Yorktown in forty eight hours.

That's a minimum of 2,000 light years x 365/48 = 365,000 c. I know you can do the math, Brian. So tell me how this example is overrided by the TNG TM?

Another example was from third season TOS "That Which Survives":


SPOCK: A positional change.
RAHDA: It doesn't make any sense. But somehow I'd say that in a flash we've been knocked one thousand light years away from where we were.
SPOCK: Nine hundred and ninety point seven light years to be exact, Lieutenant.

Enterprise gets transported 990.7 light years across space and must now return at best possible speed back to a planet where Captain Kirk and the rest of a landing party are stranded on, which we get the following time factor to return:

RAHDA: We're holding warp eight point four, sir. If we can maintain it, our estimated time of arrival is eleven and one half solar hours.

SPOCK: Eleven point three three seven hours, Lieutenant. I wish you would be more precise.

Even if it took a few minutes or even an hour to reach warp 8.4, it won't affect the speed or time of arrival much. We have a clearly stated distance of 990.7 light years and a clear estimated time of arrival; 11.337 hours. We'll round up and say 12, just to cover possible acceleration time to warp 8.4. Thus 990.7 x 365 light days = 361,853 x 24 hours = 8,678,532 divided by 12 = 723,211 c. That's 31 times faster than the fastest example given from B5.

I certainly cannot believe that someone who claims to take highly meticulous notes on every episode and movie would miss these well-defined examples. So how did you miss them? Why didn't you include them? Why did you hand-wave them away? If you did know about those two examples, you surely know about similar examples of that corroborate those speeds, such as "Bread and Circuses" from season two that has the following:

(Everyone on the Bridge is staring at Spock's back, as he analyses some sensor data.)
SPOCK: No doubt about it, Captain. The space debris comes from the survey vessel SS Beagle.
KIRK: Missing for six years, and now this junk in space.
SPOCK: Portions of the antimatter nacelles, personal belongings. Captain, no signs of bodies whatsoever.
KIRK: Then whatever destroyed the ship, the crew was able to get off safely. Navigator, compute the present drift of the wreckage.
CHEKOV: Computed and on the board, sir.
KIRK: Mister Spock, assuming that the wreckage drifted at the same speed and direction for the past six years?
SPOCK: It would have come from planet four, star system eight nine two, directly ahead.
CHEKOV: Only one sixteenth parsec away, Captain. We should be there in seconds.
KIRK: Standard orbit around the planet. There may be survivors there.

One-sixteenth of a parsec is about 12,850,920 light seconds and it takes about 30 seconds for them to reach the planet (there are several cuts in this scene, but there is dialogue over them which makes it clear that there are no significant cuts in the timeline of the events) or 428,364c. That's pretty consistent with Obsession. I also cite in my critique review "Where no Man Has Gone Before" and the implications that would have for the 5 year mission, if they were only limited to the tech manual speeds, or how the ship could not possibly have gotten from Gothos to Earth (Stated to be 900 light years from Earth) again in time for "Assignment: Earth", if the ship were only limited to 1,000c, and still have all the big adventures they went through in that time. For those who keep track, "The Squire of Gothos" is episode 18 of TOS and "Assignment: Earth" is 55. That's at least 37 big adventures there, many of them taking up several days or more of time, plus there are many mentions of starbase layovers, Brian. So how did such a limited speed allow for all that? But speeds greater than 10,000c do.

So,again, how did you miss all that? You can't, unless you cherrypick. I've just cited a ton of evidence here. No clips, but they can be checked out easily enough.

But that's not all the issues. The phaser issue comes next. I don't know why you did it, but you somehow, like the warp speed, missed those as well. For example, you missed the context of Lazarus' ship:

LAZARUS: You wouldn't believe me if I told you.
KIRK: Try us.

LAZARUS: All right. I distorted a fact in the interest of self-preservation, for my holy cause. I needed help, not censure. Freedom, not captivity for being a madman. I was afraid that's what you'd call me if I told you the truth.

KIRK: I'll have the truth now.

LAZARUS: My planet, my Earth, or what's left of it, is down there beneath us.

KIRK: What are you saying?

LAZARUS: My spaceship is more than just that. It's a time chamber, a time-ship, and I. I am a time traveller.

KIRK: And this thing you search for is a time traveler, too?

LAZARUS: Oh, yes. He's fled me across all the years, all the empty years to a dead future on a murdered planet he destroyed. Help me! Give me the tools I need to kill him! The crystals! Don't let him get away! Don't let him get away.

So it's not a simple shuttlecraft, it's a freaking timeship and not just that, either:

SPOCK: Incredible, Captain.
(And again.)
KIRK: What was that?
SPOCK: What my instruments read is totally unbelievable, Captain. Twice, for a split second each time, everything within range of our instruments seemed on the verge of winking out.
KIRK: I want facts, not poetry.
SPOCK: I have given you the facts, Captain. The entire magnetic field in this solar system simply blinked. The planet below, the mass of which we're measuring, attained zero gravity.
KIRK: That's impossible. What you're describing
SPOCK: Is non-existence.
UHURA: Standard General Alert signal from Starfleet Command, Captain.
KIRK: All stations to immediate alert status. Stand by.
SPOCK: Captain, scanners now report a life object on the planet surface below.
KIRK: You just did a complete life survey five minutes ago. How are you just picking it up now?
SPOCK: Inexplicable, Captain. This reading began at approximately the moment that the pulsation phenomenon began to subside.
KIRK: Well, what is it, this object? Its physical makeup?
SPOCK: A living being. Body temperature 98.5 Fahrenheit. Mass, electrical impulses, movement. It is apparently human, Captain.
KIRK: And its appearance coincided with this cosmic winking-out?
SPOCK; Almost to the second.

And...

KIRK: Exactly what did I pass through?
LAZARUS: That's hard to explain, Captain. I call it an alternative warp. It's sort of a negative magnetic corridor where the two parallel universes meet. It's sort of a safety valve. It keeps eternity from blowing up.
KIRK: This corridor, is it what caused the magnetic effect, the winking out phenomenon?
LAZARUS: Precisely, Captain, but not because of its existence. Because, because my foe entered. The corridor is like a prison, with explosives at the door. Open the door, and the explosives might go off. Stay inside
KIRK: And the universe is safe.
LAZARUS: Both universes, Captain. Yours and mine.

So that's what the little "ship" can do. It can wink out everything and can provide a corridor between universes. So you didn't think that would play a role in the phasers effect on it? No?

I also brought up the cut context of the phaser bombardment on Apollo's temple in "Who Mourns for Adonis?" where we got this:

SPOCK: Mister Kyle.
KYLE: Yes, sir.
SPOCK: We're unable to break completely loose from this force field, but we might be able to punch some holes through it.
KYLE: What for, sir?
SPOCK: To shoot through. It might also relieve Lieutenant Uhura's communications problem. Take these equations to the nuclear electronics lab. I want them to work on the problem of negating the force field in selected areas. That might be done by generating a strong pinpoint charge of M-rays on some of these selected wave lengths and tying them in with the combined output of all our engines.
KYLE: Right away, sir

So, Brian, you missed that bit about the M-rays and the fact that the ship's combined engine power had to go into punching holes with the M-rays through Apollo's hand-shaped force field. How could you? You said you took notes. So why was this critical piece of evidence and context overlooked? Because it hurt your case, that's why. Just like Vaal's shield in "The Apple", this all means we can't use these examples as reliable ones.

Lets go on further with the next step, the use of defense fields, structural integrity fields for Trek ships that you left out when trying to compare damage done in the TOS episodes to the damage Reliant does in Wrath Khan and saying that they are all nearly identical when they are not, and I provided the context for Khan also wanting initially to keep Kirk alive long enough to gloat his victory over him. Hell, Brian, I countered your statements with plenty of screencaps, including some from Star Trek: Enterprise which show, and I did a separate article on how heavily built the Constitution-class refits are.

Lastly,

In your video, your latest video, you cried about how mean we all are to you, but you know what? You are a hypocrite. You looked the other way for a decade and a half as your close buddies Wayne Poe and Michael Wong viciously attacked Graham Kennedy and other people for nothing more than disagreeing with them on who'd win, no matter what evidence was provided. And you know what? You didn't do a damn thing about it. Ever. Not once that I know of. So now you're upset because a few people call you out on your questionable analysis work.

What a piece of work. I will gleefully from now on tear your videos apart and without reservation.

Oh, as for the SFJN wiki. Not once has Tyralak ever asked for a change, even though he can at any point. It's an open source wiki you know. You could even do it. So no boohooing on that, either.

I'll just add one more thing on the wiki. Given the caustic nature of SDN's Imperiwiki site, why does Brian not say anything about that as well? He can't possibly not know what's on it or the nasty lies and insults it spews at SDN's enemies. So why is not saying anything about that, yet he gets upset at an article that is years and years out of date.
-Mike

[Lucky]

I'm disappointed in you, Brian. Very disappointed. Let me address some of what was in your very manipulative little video.

I think you might want to take a step back, and relax a bit Mike. Your opening sentence makes your post seem like a parent who wants to punish a child rather then someone who wants to engage rational debate. Brian seems to have been personally offended by it, and I'd have been either laughing out loud or confused by your behavior.

Mike Disco has been blocked. He posted a long rant regarding, of all things, this video.
He even defended the use of the Wiki to run down my integrity. I will no longer accept any form of communication from this man.

He said "I'm disappointed in you, Brian. Very disappointed. Let me address some of what was in your very manipulative little video."
No kidding.
Blocked. Bye.

1) If Brian didn't want to respond to mike, he should have simply stated that the comments page on Youtube was not the place to talk about it, and directed mike to some place like ASVS.org.

Insulting Mike, and Blocking him from commenting on the page is rather immature.

+++++

2) What about the SFJ wiki bothers Brian so much? Is it wiki's in general that he hates? If he wanted something changed then why not ask?

[Mr. Oragahn]

Mike Disco

hahahahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Guy's talented after all. :P

[Mike DiCenso]

I truly do feel sorry for him, given what he said as I don't think there are very many "nerds" who've not suffered some form of censure or bullying over their hobby. But the fact that he has to censor all who disagree with him. I know, I went through something similar, though not with family, but you don't see me using it to deflect issues.

I hate to psychoanalysis the guy, but we know now why Brian cannot and will not give up his ICS work: it was his key to acceptance and stardom in a sub-culture of the Geek/Nerd community. Acceptance that he so desperately was craving since he apparently could not get it from his father, family or immediate peers while growing up.

I think you might want to take a step back, and relax a bit Mike. Your opening sentence makes your post seem like a parent who wants to punish a child rather then someone who wants to engage rational debate. Brian seems to have been personally offended by it, and I'd have been either laughing out loud or confused by your behavior.

I understand what you mean, Lucky, and I do apologize. But I was pretty pissed off at Brian. He's not a child. Brian is a grown man now and for him to use this... cheap and obvious manipulation to side-step the issues really got me.


But that being said, I really actually am disappointed with him.

The man does not want to deal with critics and he only wants to surround himself with "Yes Men". I caught in his video that he may have also blocked Nowhereman, who has also been a vocal critic of his lately. In fact, from what I've been hearing, Brian has been censoring several other people who have disagreed with him.
-Mike

[Nowhereman10]

I'm disappointed in you, Brian. Very disappointed. Let me address some of what was in your very manipulative little video.

I think you might want to take a step back, and relax a bit Mike. Your opening sentence makes your post seem like a parent who wants to punish a child rather then someone who wants to engage rational debate. Brian seems to have been personally offended by it, and I'd have been either laughing out loud or confused by your behavior.

Mike Disco has been blocked. He posted a long rant regarding, of all things, this video.
He even defended the use of the Wiki to run down my integrity. I will no longer accept any form of communication from this man.

He said "I'm disappointed in you, Brian. Very disappointed. Let me address some of what was in your very manipulative little video."
No kidding.
Blocked. Bye.

1) If Brian didn't want to respond to mike, he should have simply stated that the comments page on Youtube was not the place to talk about it, and directed mike to some place like ASVS.org.

Insulting Mike, and Blocking him from commenting on the page is rather immature.

+++++

2) What about the SFJ wiki bothers Brian so much? Is it wiki's in general that he hates? If he wanted something changed then why not ask?

Hey, Lucky, where did you see that Mr. Young had blocked Mike DiCenso? I just checked the Cherry Pick video and Mr. Young's page as well, too. Not a sign.

I agree with you on the 2nd comment, Lucky, and I think Mike is right in that Mr. Young is censoring his critics, rather than go over point by point the evidence. There is no way that Mr. Young could possibly have missed that whole dialog about the Lazarus' ship being a universe-connecting timeship. Nor could he have missed that bit about Spock giving orders to Kyle about the M rays, which required using full ship's power to punch the holes in the hand thingy. I also don't believe that Mr. Young for a second could miss all the many Classic Trek references to gallivanting about the galaxy at hundreds of thousands of times the speed of light!

I just don't get what Mr. Young is so scared of. :/

[359]

Hey, Lucky, where did you see that Mr. Young had blocked Mike DiCenso? I just checked the Cherry Pick video and Mr. Young's page as well, too. Not a sign.

He mentions it in the comments section of the Picking Cherries video.

And to be honest, I don't blame him, Mike's comment is quite out-of-line in many ways. For starters, the tone is completely demeaning and the wording is insulting. I realize that Mike has mentioned that he was really irritated when he wrote it and he felt Brian was using the complaints about insults to dodge the issue, but that doesn't make it any less inappropriate.

2) What about the SFJ wiki bothers Brian so much? Is it wiki's in general that he hates? If he wanted something changed then why not ask?

When Brian comes here he sees a lot of personal insults directed at him throughout several threads. From that he decided that people over here only know to use venom. And I tend to agree that several specific, and yet to be named, individuals over here have not been respecting Brian as a individual and person on a consistent basis. There have been numerous bouts of insults to his intelligence, personality, and even his voice. Just earlier in this thread there was this regarding a minor typo he made in one of the comments on his youtube video.:

Mike DiscohahahahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Guy's talented after all. :P

And there have been many more instances spread across many threads, especially in this Other Websites section.

Because of this I totally understand his decision to avoid Starfleet Jedi entirely. While it is an exaggeration that there are only trolls here who only know how to insult and provide no technical discussion, it has its basis in fact.

And all of this is quite surprising to me, I never personally went through 'Ye ol' days' of the debate. But this is beginning to sound a bit to similar to what I have heard about some of its more negative aspects.
Additionally isn't the main rule of this board supposed to be

All discourse is to be reasonable, polite, and informative.

With more emphasis on the polite bit in this case. And more specifically

• No flaming. Insults, attacks, and rudeness all serve as obstacles to discourse; they will not be tolerated.

Yet this is exactly what has occurred on many occasions specifically involving Brian. Do comments about someone's voice sounding like "banjo twang" really have a place on a board that prides itself on providing an environment of reasonable discourse?

Furthermore, something that keeps occurring here which Brian has mentioned bothers him is constantly associating him with people from the past such as Wong, Poe, etc... That's the past, now move forward.


So getting to the crux of things, is this place just becoming another SDN*, or are we ready to stop being childish and get back to this silly, pointless, and above all else: fun debate. :)



Oh, and regarding the wiki, the wording could do with being changed I think that could be a simple misunderstanding between 'answer to' (as in crimes) and 'answer questions about'


*Didn't really want to include a comparison to another party as if they were inherently negative, but I think it'll help get the point across.

[Nowhereman10]

He mentions it in the comments section of the Picking Cherries video.

And to be honest, I don't blame him, Mike's comment is quite out-of-line in many ways. For starters, the tone is completely demeaning and the wording is insulting. I realize that Mike has mentioned that he was really irritated when he wrote it and he felt Brian was using the complaints about insults to dodge the issue, but that doesn't make it any less inappropriate.

I still don't see it. Must be a script error or something.

I have to disagree with you somewhat there. The opening tone is hostile, granted, and uncalled for, but the body of the statement is very detailed and cites exactly what is wrong with Mr. Young's work, at least in context of the Minbari/Fed Case Study video, and to my eyes, it makes it look like Mr. Young is dodging the issue because he has no real answer.

Plus Mr. Young's own video itself is a rant and to call what Mike DiCenso posted a rant is hypocrisy of a first order. And I don't like that Mr. Young is actively censoring those who critique him.

I mean, Mike DiCenso's objections to it are well spelled out, so would it kill Mr. Young to answer each objection rather than rant himself and say things like "I put X number of items of evidence in my videos". Well, citing the number of individual pieces of evidence is a fallacy. It is an Appeal to Statistics type of argument, and does not actually address the specific objection(s). Because I can counter easily with "But there are a thousand counter pieces of evidence out there."

Furthermore, Mike DiCenso's vaild argument about pulling said evidence out of context has yet to be addressed.

When Brian comes here he sees a lot of personal insults directed at him throughout several threads. From that he decided that people over here only know to use venom. And I tend to agree that several specific, and yet to be named, individuals over here have not been respecting Brian as a individual and person on a consistent basis. There have been numerous bouts of insults to his intelligence, personality, and even his voice. Just earlier in this thread there was this regarding a minor typo he made in one of the comments on his youtube video.:

I have to disagree with you again there. Those "insults" are often people calling him out for being a cherry picker, which, as you have clearly seen, and you must admit they are right, is not an insult. An insult would be "You are a fuckiing fucktard child molester" versus "So-and-so is a cherry picker and here is the many detailed reasons why". If he can't handle the latter, he's far too fragile as a person, and I think the Cherry Picker rant video shows that Mr. Young is indeed far too thin skinned for his own good. Because the cherry picking objection is a legitimate criticism, and I don't know about you, but I've seen enough presented here that makes that valid.

Also look at the bigger picture here. People have been trying to communicate nicely to Mr. Young on these issues, but are brushed aside, with no clear answer, and so the frustration has mounted and continues to do so.

Furthermore, something that keeps occurring here which Brian has mentioned bothers him is constantly associating him with people from the past such as Wong, Poe, etc... That's the past, now move forward.

But Mr. Young, for better or worse, I would argue, is associated with those people. He was involved with them in making the two ICS books, he was secretly emailing them as part of a group of militant pro Star Wars debaters to shape the Versus Debates. Mr. Young's belief in Star Wars superiority is shaped by that interaction. Plus I agree with Mike DiCenso that to get angry at some critics who are maybe not friendly towards him, while you look the other way on your past associates behavior which was vastly more extreme is again proof of hypocrisy.

Why isn't Mr. Young condemning his past associates, but continuing to condemn others. I mean, in one of his videos he all but says in essence is "Mike Wong may be mean, but listen to his words". But for Mike DiCenso he is saying "Don't listen to him at all, he's mean and I won't talk to him!". See the problem? That's why Mr. Young's past associations will keep haunting him. They influence him even now.

Finally, Mr. Young clearly made videos directed at you that completely misrepresented you. How can we take what he says in good faith, if he misrepresents anyone who actively critics his work or opposes him in a way he doesn't like? He expected to be fully and completely praised for his isoton video, but even the slightest criticism was too much for Mr. Young. And I called him out on that, and to his credit, Mr, Young did delete those videos. But again, he's too thin skinned.

So getting to the crux of things, is this place just becoming another SDN*, or are we ready to stop being childish and get back to this silly, pointless, and above all else: fun debate. :)

No, it is far from it, unless there are secret cabal groups like SDN's Bravo Delta Zero group that have been formed without telling me, board invasions are being planned, and we actively are ridiculing anyone pro Star Wars who come here, regardless of how well the argue. But I see your point and we should be vigilant to keep group think from making us like that. :D

[359]

I still don't see it. Must be a script error or something.

Odd, I don't see it anymore either.

I have to disagree with you somewhat there. The opening tone is hostile, granted, and uncalled for, but the body of the statement is very detailed and cites exactly what is wrong with Mr. Young's work, at least in context of the Minbari/Fed Case Study video, and to my eyes, it makes it look like Mr. Young is dodging the issue because he has no real answer.

Plus Mr. Young's own video itself is a rant and to call what Mike DiCenso posted a rant is hypocrisy of a first order. And I don't like that Mr. Young is actively censoring those who critique him.

I don't disagree that Mike's post's technical comments are accurate. I simply understand Brian's blocking of him based on the way they were presented. But I can see your point how it seems like censorship. The best way to write that would have been to separate the technical and personal aspects at least into two separate posts, but with them interwoven it just allows for, in my opinion, valid blocking for containing insults.

And I do agree Brian does not always cover all of the relevant evidence, and does not use evidence entirely in context. I am just saying, given the method through which the complaint was presented made that an understandable decision to block him. Not that I would choose to myself, but understandable.

I have to disagree with you again there. Those "insults" are often people calling him out for being a cherry picker, which, as you have clearly seen, and you must admit they are right, is not an insult. An insult would be "You are a fuckiing fucktard child molester" versus "So-and-so is a cherry picker and here is the many detailed reasons why". If he can't handle the latter, he's far too fragile as a person, and I think the Cherry Picker rant video shows that Mr. Young is indeed far too thin skinned for his own good. Because the cherry picking objection is a legitimate criticism, and I don't know about you, but I've seen enough presented here that makes that valid.

I'm not talking about the cherry picker calling, that is a valid point of criticism as you said. What I am talking about are instances where people have referred to him as stupid, unintelligent, and criticizing his voice. These do exist at an unfortunate concentration. And even the first time I read them made me slightly uncomfortable given the normal insult-less environment normally found here in other threads and on other topics. And again, I cited an instance just above in my previous post.

Finally, Mr. Young clearly made videos directed at you that completely misrepresented you. How can we take what he says in good faith, if he misrepresents anyone who actively critics his work or opposes him in a way he doesn't like? He expected to be fully and completely praised for his isoton video, but even the slightest criticism was too much for Mr. Young. And I called him out on that, and to his credit, Mr, Young did delete those videos. But again, he's too thin skinned.

I never saw the videos that were deleted, except Tin Foil, which has apparently been deleted since I last looked. And that contains the closest thing to a personal attack I have seen in his work so far, and that is an accusation of dishonesty for me claiming something is too high and something else is too low. Which on its own is not only a poorly made accusation, but also not insulting to me personally. Misrepresenting one's arguments is one thing, going and calling the created of said argument stupid is far different.


Also I would like to add that as of this post Brian has posted a Q&A response video to Mike's assertions here.
So far I can tell this is not going to get a good response from here, including myself. And I've only watched the first three minutes, and don't really want to spent the time on it right now.