TESB analysis: Hoth attack Fiasco

[Praeothmin]

What do you guys think?

[sonofccn]

Gentlemen, Ladies and Droids of citzenship,

Let us began. While the Authorship is correct to heckle the late Admiral Ozzel for his general incompetence the claim, and indeed title of that segment, of "Vader's incoherent strategy in outerspace" is based less on factual data but arbitrary guesses and assumptions on part of the Authorship. Most particular the claim "Once the shield is down, the Star Destroyers that make up the majority of the Imperial Fleet can launch the bombardment the shields prevent." which the Authorship uses later on to imply the aformentioned accusation of incoherency on the part of Lord Vader. While orbital bombardment would be a tactically and strategically sound option on its own transcripts of the proceedings, obtained from Imperial archives here, as well as later events show this was never Lord Vader's intention:

VADER
What is it, General?

VEERS
My lord, the fleet has moves out
of light-speed. Com-Scan has
detected an energy field protecting
an area around the sixth planet of
the Hoth system. The field is
strong enough to deflect any
bombardment.

VADER
(angrily)
The Rebels are alerted to our
presence. Admiral Ozzel came out
of light-speed too close to the
system.

VEERS
He felt surprise was wiser...

VADER
He is as clumsy as he is stupid.
General, prepare your troops for a
surface attack.

VEERS
Yes, my lord.

Veers turns smartly and leaves as Vader activates a large viewscreen
showing the bridge of his mighty ship. Admiral Ozzel appears on the
viewscreen, standing slightly in front of Captain Piett.

OZZEL
Lord Vader, the fleet has moved
out of light-speed, and we're
preparing to... Aaagh!

VADER
You have failed me for the last
time, Admiral. Captain Piett.

Piett steps forward, as the admiral moves away, slightly confused,
touching his throat as it begins to constrict painfully.

PIETT
Yes, my lord.

VADER
Make ready to land out troops beyond
the energy shield and deploy the
fleet so that nothing gets off that
system. You are in command now,
Admiral Piett.

PIETT
Thank you, Lord Vader.

As is made clear it is General Veers, not Lord Vader, who makes mention of a planetary bombardment. What plans Ozzel had were of course interred with his corpse. As for the Dark Lord he, as his later actions make clear, wished the shield lowered in order to facilitate a hard drop on the Rebel base. Likely for the political boon of capturing high profile Rebel leaders, such as Princess Leia, opposed to unidentifiable vapor, as well as the military intelligence which could be gathered from the Rebels themselves and their computer systems.

Further, unvoiced by the Authorship, would be the delay caused by retrieving Veers and his unit from the endangered area. Time the Rebels could use for escape as surely as they could during the actually performed invasion, even more so since only a fanatic fool would send TIE fighters into an area about to be saturation blasted.

The next point of issue is the Authorship's statement of "Vader jumps into the Hoth system with a handful of Star Destroyers; only six are shown on screen. That’s got to enforce a blockade of an entire planet." along with claims that a "major ally" in the Dark Lord's success hinged on the Rebel's own defense shield trapping them. As should not be needed to be pointed out Hoth is a barren wasteland of no importance or sapiant residence other than the Rebel base. Six Star Destroyers, one of which is Super class, is more than adequate for such a straightforward cordon. Any escape vessel, hampered by atmospheric drag, would be forced to lift off from a tightly confined vector and any ship attempting otherwise could be spotted, tracked and dealt with accordingly. Any confinement or difficulty caused by the Rebel shield was more than compensated by the prevention of a hard drop on their garrison as well as a precision strike to remove their blasted ion cannon.

Thirdly the Authorship offers the opinion that 'A smarter plan would have been to launch TIE fighters against Echo Base — since aircraft and spacecraft can get past that Rebel enemy shield — to lure the Rebels into an evacuation from Hoth through their shield’s chokepoint.". Ironically the Authorship does not comment on how this undercuts his argument the shield "traps" the Rebel Scum. Nor is evidence cited to how he reaches this conclusion. From the Imperial archives again we find this concerning the Rebels and their shield:

"LEIA
All troop carriers will assemble
at the north entrance. The heavy
transport ships will leave as
soon as they're loaded. Only two
fighter escorts per ship. The
energy shield can only be opened
for a short time, so you'll have
to stay very close to your transports.

HOBBIE
Two fighters against a Star Destroyer?

LEIA
The ion cannon will fire several
shots to make sure that any enemy
ships will be out of your flight
path. When you've gotten past the
energy shield, proceed directly to
the rendezvous point. Understood?"

Strictly confirming repulsor lift dependent vehicles, such as space transports of snubfighters, required the opening in the energy field in order to perforate. One the Rebels were unlikely to grant Lord Vader.

But even assuming "holes" could be found in the defense matrix sending TIEs unsupported against a garrison equipped both with an unknown number of X-wing fighters, armored snowspeeders and indeterminate ground based AA assets is at best a gambler's hope. While, if possible, TIE supporting General Veers would have been a superior option their absence is not a crippling failure on Vader's part and it may be he decided they would be of greater use managing the blockade which is the role in which they were observed in.


Lastly the Authorship complains that "Not only is there no laser bombardment from space once the shield is down, there’s no Imperial blockade worth speaking of." and that Luke Skywalker, piloting a nimble snubfighter, and General Han Solo and companions in the Millennium Falcon, a heavily modified bulkfreighter intended to run Imperial blockades, managed to escape. An unknown number of bulkier transports, which were the expected quarry of the cordon fleet, were captured however. Further Claiming it was"By sheer bad luck" rather than Imperial skill that the Millennium Falcon is ambushed by three star destroyers as it attempted to run the cordon. In all of this the Authorship neglects the use of the Rebel v-150 anti-orbital ion cannon, vulnerable fleetingly from behind the much derided energy shield during which it fired on the comparatively unprotected Star Destroyers, which harried and badgered Death Squadron during the ordeal. Now yes, better tactics could have been employed to deal with this issue, the ISS Tyrant should been wary of it before the warship was shot, but the claim of laying it solely at the feet of Imperial incompetence is hogwash.

In conclusion while I agree the battle for Hoth was a strategic failure for the Empire, as well as hardly its highest showing, the operation itself was conducted satisfactory within the restraints and issues it was founded in. Its failings, the escape of the Rebel leaders, part of the unforeseeable fortunes of War and could not have been knowingly prevented.

Sincerely,
SubCommander Tyler


How's that? ;)

[Mr. Oragahn]

Is that the theory that has Ozzel being a rebel agent ?

[Lucky]

I noticed the author assumed the Rebel's shield at Hoth covered the entire planet.

VEERS
My lord, the fleet has moves out
of light-speed. Com-Scan has
detected an energy field protecting
an area around the sixth planet of
the Hoth system. The field is
strong enough to deflect any
bombardment.

This video explains why the Empire lost to the rebels: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBbPDeILmZw.

[sonofccn]

Well out of curosity Praeothmin, what's your take on the article if you don't mind me asking?

[Praeothmin]

I just thought the article was funny...

I agree with Tyler's assessment in part, that the guys ignores some basic facts about Vader's plans:
-He wanted to capture the Rebel leadership if possible;
-He didn't want to destroy the entire base;


Still, it is true the walkers should have upped their Firepower when dealing with the Rebel defenses, and the Rebels could have veered off in different directions as soon as their ships had cleared the shield in order to escape, and blockading a planet with barely a handful of ships is dumb... :)

[Mr. Oragahn]

Still, it is true the walkers should have upped their Firepower when dealing with the Rebel defenses,...

Would have changed nothing in that the walkers were never hindered by neither the troopers nor the blaster cannons.
It's even better because it actually does not encourage Rebels to regroup inside the base and prepare for invasion. Leaving spread across the plains and in the trenches prevented a better reorganization, especially if some Imperial officers planned to increase the number of captures.

and the Rebels could have veered off in different directions as soon as their ships had cleared the shield in order to escape, and blockading a planet with barely a handful of ships is dumb... :)

Perhaps there were a specific route.
There also logically had to be entire squadrons of TIE bombers and fighters placed on interception vectors, and in the end I'm not sure those medium transports could outrun star destroyers, so perhaps it was just simpler to face them head on and count on the ion cannon to clear the way.

[Praeothmin]

Using higher firepower on the Hoth plains would have killed more Rebels, and might have prevented the loss of two Walkers...

Your second point is pure speculation, and not supported by anything seen in the movie...
The movie only shows us ISDs on an intercept course, so unless the novel specifically states there were also a shitload of Tie fighters corralling the transports towards the ISDs for capture, then we can say the Rebels were dumb... :)

[sonofccn]

Your second point is pure speculation, and not supported by anything seen in the movie...
The movie only shows us ISDs on an intercept course

Well we do know TIEs were employed to chase the MF into the Hoth Asteriod field, now while they could have only been deployed after the MF escaped it isn't incongruent with the film itself that they were deployed before hand. Perhaps "entire squadrons of TIE bombers and fighters " is a stretch but a general fighter presence for recon or harrasment should be, I would argue, a supportable position.

and the Rebels could have veered off in different directions as soon as their ships had cleared the shield in order to escape, and blockading a planet with barely a handful of ships is dumb... :)

Well I won't deny the Imperials fethed up what should have been a milk run, perhaps due to the confusion and chaos caused by the nominal squadron leader being force choked and replaced abruptly before the mission, but, to my way of thinking, had the Rebels immeditely veered upon exiting the shield cover it would have only extended the duration of them being stuck inside Hoth's gravity well and would have placed the running ships outside the support of the Ion cannon. I would argue that the transports are unlikely to be particuarly lithe, manuverable, or speedy and that it wouldn't get very far before an ISD dealt it and moved back to stop the next wave.

Now if all the ships had ran at once I would agree with you, too many vectors with too few Star Destroyers, but the Rebels appeared to be sending them up in groups as they filled them. At best it would be a game of Russian roulette, more so than a straight run would be, to which transports escaped.

So I guess I would argue the Rebels weren't stupid to the make the run but rather were incompetent in that they didn't seem to have a real contingency for the Empire showing up on their doorstep and were forced into a bad position. Or at least that's my take of it all.

Still, it is true the walkers should have upped their Firepower when dealing with the Rebel defenses,

Well there is a reason Tyler didn't cover the ground action, save in the most detached manner, and it wasn't because he was over awed with the tatical genius of Veers. ;)

[Mr. Oragahn]

Using higher firepower on the Hoth plains would have killed more Rebels, and might have prevented the loss of two Walkers...

Well it all depends if they had planned to capture that many rebels to begin with. With that rumoured Skywalker guy being a high profile, it's possible that they didn't even expect him to engaging the walkers himself, especially in such a modern context.

Besides, the rebels on the ground didn't threaten the walkers. Only the snowspeeders, and what would have really prevented the walkers from being downed would have been a greater ROF, not a greater firepower per shot.

Your second point is pure speculation, and not supported by anything seen in the movie...
The movie only shows us ISDs on an intercept course, so unless the novel specifically states there were also a shitload of Tie fighters corralling the transports towards the ISDs for capture, then we can say the Rebels were dumb... :)

Sure, but we also know from several other examples that TIEs are sent into pursuit or to intercept spaceships of smaller tonnage.
We also don't have to go for the stupidest conclusion when perfect valid and more reasonable ones are available.

[Praeothmin]

WE don't have to, the this analysis is based on visuals, so HE would have to...
And based on visuals, the Hoth battle is a glaring display of stupidity from the Empire...

[mojo]

praeo, you seem particularly cranky on this topic. while i agree that there is nothing to specifically show that oragahn trail's idea happened, it seems wacky to toss it out the window for that reason. just about everything on this site is speculation.

[Praeothmin]

I'm not cranky, I'm saying that criticizing the site's analysis because he didn't posit the possibility of Tie patrols corralling the Transport ships towards the ISD when the movies don't show this isn't valid...

I don't think the Rebels were stupid, and I like Mr. O's assumption...
But the site's author doesn't need to, and his critic was still funny, even though I don't agree with it...

[Mr. Oragahn]

WE don't have to, the this analysis is based on visuals, so HE would have to...
And based on visuals, the Hoth battle is a glaring display of stupidity from the Empire...

Well I guess spaceships don't have toilets until we see them. :P

It's not about TIEs pushing the ships towards the ISDs, but about TIE squadrons occupying areas of the sky which more or less offer only one alternative to escapees. The mere presence of TIEs in sectors is sufficient to act as a deterrent.
It was a mix of invasion turning into a siege. I don't see why the Imps would not launch them. If anything, star destroyers are carriers with some guns stacked on for good measure.

[Lucky]

You guys do realize that a single Trede Fed donut could blockade an entire system. I really think the Rebel's escape routs were limited by Hyperspace lanes most likely, and where Luke went was a little know planet that might not even be on most maps.