Promoting SFJN on Other Websites

Did a related website in the community go down? Come back up? Relocate to a new address? Install pop-up advertisements?

This forum is for discussion of these sorts of issues.
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Jedi Master Spock
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Promoting SFJN on Other Websites

Post by Jedi Master Spock » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:53 pm

So I recently decided to buy a text ad to give a little back to the Furry Conflict, which I recalled enjoying reading through a while ago, and it occurred to me:

Where should we be promoting this website and these forums? Has anyone been recruiting new members? New poster registration has started to drop off just as the forums have started to launch and traffic risen.

For example, I've logged a spate of referrals from bbs.stardestroyer.net in the past few days, although none of those referrals seem to have joined the forums to chip in their two cents.

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Post by Nonamer » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:17 am

Getting a lot of referers from SDN doesn't exactly help a lot. SB.com has people that are really interested in the meaningful aspects of this debate so they would be of more help, if you can get around the board isolationist nature (not really, but they don't like problems of other boards brought there). St-v-sw.net might be a good place to start though.

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Post by Socar » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:58 am

I have a good idea about which topic most of those SDN referrals were coming from, but yeah, most people there don't seem as interested in the STvSW debate as they were a while ago. Back when ST-V-SW.Net or Strek-v-SWars.Net put up their forums they had a ton of traffic very quickly, but these days people just don't seem as interested. Of course, for a lot of people, the debate ended when the AotC ICS came out.

In my experience, attracting visitors to a new forum is probably the hardest part of being the administrator. If I were you, I'd probably check out a few things, including:

alt.startrek.vs.starwars - sure, it's become almost a spam portal these days, but you may still put out a notice on there that these forums exist.

Contacting G2k and seeing if he'd be willing to make a public announcement regarding this place (I know you posted a comment in his blog about it, but who knows how many people actually saw it).

As Nonamer suggested, SB.com would probably be a good place to go as well.

Not really sure where else to go on the internet for people that are actually interested in this sort of thing. I'm sure that there are at least some people at SDN that are still interested, but you'd probably need to find someone who actually posts there and try and get them to put a link in their sig or something (I go there every day to read topics (though not so much for the ST or SW related stuff) but I don't really post.

Frankly, I think a separate canon policy per topic would be something that would catch a lot of people's interest, so you may want to play off of this fact as well.

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Post by Socar » Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:12 am

Oh yeah, one other thing:

You may want to go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_versus_Star_Wars and add the links to your website and forums to the bottom of the page. I was actually considering doing it myself, but I figured I might as well let you do it so you put your own descriptions and decide under what categories to place your links in (obviously your forum link would go under "Links hosting the debate" (someone needs to remove that ST-v-SW.Net link since the DigitalBreakdown forums no longer exist, but whatever), but as for your actual website, I'm not really sure if you're actually more Trek-sided or Wars-sided (unfortunately I haven't gotten a chance to read most of your website yet), though if I had to guess, I would say "Sites favored by Trek proponents").

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Post by GStone » Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:38 pm

Also, people are gonna disperse for a while, even when it's the internet. Things'll pop up and and a big reason why the more rabids of either side congregate so quickly is because of the strong need to congregate. Those that are of a similar vein, as us don't feel the need to shout as much as those that are on the other side, while being one of the rabids. Without that pressure, there isn't as strong an impulse to blast it all over the internet. So, it'll be a little harder to get everyone back, but we tend to over time.

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Post by Jedi Master Spock » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:29 pm

Socar wrote:Oh yeah, one other thing:

You may want to go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_versus_Star_Wars and add the links to your website and forums to the bottom of the page. I was actually considering doing it myself, but I figured I might as well let you do it so you put your own descriptions and decide under what categories to place your links in (obviously your forum link would go under "Links hosting the debate" (someone needs to remove that ST-v-SW.Net link since the DigitalBreakdown forums no longer exist, but whatever), but as for your actual website, I'm not really sure if you're actually more Trek-sided or Wars-sided (unfortunately I haven't gotten a chance to read most of your website yet), though if I had to guess, I would say "Sites favored by Trek proponents").
I'm under the impression Wikipedia frowns on webmasters adding links to their own websites, however appropriate it may be for the site to be included in the article - it is, of course, especially with the Digital Breakdown and strek-v-swars forums previously linked on the article being dead. I have no interest in pissing Wikipedia editors off en masse as certain other VS websites have.

You - or any other editor - are quite welcome to add it, and if any description needs correcting or clarifying, I will be happy to do so.

I'd like to think that I'm neither Trek nor Wars "sided," but my site is almost certainly more favored by the "Trek side" of the debate as the lines seem to be currently drawn.

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Post by Nonamer » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:31 pm

You could also try the old methods:

1) Paid Advertising.
2) Make an awesome website that attracts new members.
3) Get all your friends to come.

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Post by Socar » Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:11 pm

Jedi Master Spock wrote:You - or any other editor - are quite welcome to add it, and if any description needs correcting or clarifying, I will be happy to do so.
Done. I went ahead and put the generic description for the site that seems to be used, but feel free to go check it over and edit it where ever you see fit.

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:18 pm

Socar wrote:

I have a good idea about which topic most of those SDN referrals were coming from, but yeah, most people there don't seem as interested in the STvSW debate as they were a while ago. Back when ST-V-SW.Net or Strek-v-SWars.Net put up their forums they had a ton of traffic very quickly, but these days people just don't seem as interested. Of course, for a lot of people, the debate ended when the AotC ICS came out.
You have to bear in mind, Socar, that the reason behind that traffic had not so much to do with advertisement, so much as who the forums were being run by and their perceptions in the overall Versus Debate community. The STvSW forum was essentially swamped because the SDNers decided to do one of their infamous board invasions with a hope to overwhelming it. A very similar thing occured to the Strek-v-SWars forum in it's inital days and months because the SDNers viewed John N.T.'s articles to be nothing more than a parroting of RSA's material. However, once things calmed down and the the attempt at overwhelming the Strek-v-Swars forum sputtered out, it did lead to some of the best and most interesting discussions on the subject that I can recall in recent years (You reading this Omega? HURRY UP AND PUT UP THE FORUM ARCHIVES ALREADY!!!!!).

Anyway, I don't know exactly what kind of a perception JMS has with the SDN crowd, if any. JMS seems to write from the Pro-Trek standpoint, but many of his ideas are largely original. He is not someone they probably view as a "Disciple of Darkstar" or some such nonsense, and therefore not worth bothering with. And you can be sure that if Wayne Poe is here, it's not too unlikely that other SDNers are aware of this place's existence.

To Jedi Master Spock:
One thing to keep in mind, JMS, the possibility of an attempted board invasion, however unlikely, is something you should always be prepared for. If you want an increase in traffic, you're going to be dealing with more of the unsavory aspects that come with it.
-Mike

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Post by Socar » Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:05 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:You have to bear in mind, Socar, that the reason behind that traffic had not so much to do with advertisement, so much as who the forums were being run by and their perceptions in the overall Versus Debate community.
Oh, I know. I remember Mike Wong's big announcement on SDN when G2k put up his forums, and like what you described with Strek-v-Swars.net. But basically I was just mentioning that back during those days, the STvSW forum on SDN was actually getting decent activity (I mean, these days, there's literally NO -actual- vs debating other than minor discussion regarding various points from time to time), and people were at least enthused about the idea of going somewhere to debate (whether for invasion or whatnot). If G2k were to put up his own forums, say, tomorrow, I have feeling they wouldn't receive even close to the kind of instant attention that they did before.

By the way, when Matt Carpenter put up the Digital Breakdown forums, do you recall how long it took before some decent activity started up?
Mike DiCenso wrote:Anyway, I don't know exactly what kind of a perception JMS has with the SDN crowd, if any. JMS seems to write from the Pro-Trek standpoint, but many of his ideas are largely original. He is not someone they probably view as a "Disciple of Darkstar" or some such nonsense, and therefore not worth bothering with.
I've only seen people mention this place a couple of times, and the only comments I can recall is Mange saying it's "heavily biased towards Trek" (though keep in mind that this was back in January).
Mike DiCenso wrote:And you can be sure that if Wayne Poe is here, it's not too unlikely that other SDNers are aware of this place's existence.
Oh, I know for a fact that both Wayne Poe and Kane Starkiller have mentioned JMS/the forums (though Kane only showed some people some screenshots from the "Superlasers and Phasers" thread and mentioned with whom he was debating with, but never actually linked to here). Wayne Poe however did actually post a link to at least one thread on this board (which I’m guessing is where Jedi Master Spock was getting the referrals from).

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Post by GStone » Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:30 am

Mike DiCenso wrote: (You reading this Omega? HURRY UP AND PUT UP THE FORUM ARCHIVES ALREADY!!!!!).
What would be cool is getting an archive of Darkstar's, digital break down's and the strek-v-swars forums up all together.
He is not someone they probably view as a "Disciple of Darkstar" or some such nonsense
I do find it funny how they see so many clones on the pro-trek side.

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:17 pm

Socar wrote:
If G2k were to put up his own forums, say, tomorrow, I have feeling they wouldn't receive even close to the kind of instant attention that they did before.
I have a feeling that it would still likely see a higher level of activity than any other site, including this one in a few weeks time, especially if there is a chance to confront or otherwise to harass RSA directly.
Socar wrote:
By the way, when Matt Carpenter put up the Digital Breakdown forums, do you recall how long it took before some decent activity started up?
I didn't join Matt's forum right off, so I can't really say for sure, but when I started lurking through to see what kind of discussions were going on, it was far more active than this forum during it's opening weeks. It's possible that people are taking a "Wait and see" approach. After all, what's the point of getting involved in a forum that might disappear in a few weeks to a few month's on you?
Mike DiCenso wrote:Anyway, I don't know exactly what kind of a perception JMS has with the SDN crowd, if any. JMS seems to write from the Pro-Trek standpoint, but many of his ideas are largely original. He is not someone they probably view as a "Disciple of Darkstar" or some such nonsense, and therefore not worth bothering with.
Socar wrote:
I've only seen people mention this place a couple of times, and the only comments I can recall is Mange saying it's "heavily biased towards Trek" (though keep in mind that this was back in January).
Well, there was no forum to interact with, either at that time. People tend to forget or just ignore, too. Some folks from both sides are starting to slowly trickle in here, at least to lurk, if not actually get involved.

Mike DiCenso wrote:And you can be sure that if Wayne Poe is here, it's not too unlikely that other SDNers are aware of this place's existence.
Socar wrote:
Oh, I know for a fact that both Wayne Poe and Kane Starkiller have mentioned JMS/the forums (though Kane only showed some people some screenshots from the "Superlasers and Phasers" thread and mentioned with whom he was debating with, but never actually linked to here). Wayne Poe however did actually post a link to at least one thread on this board (which I’m guessing is where Jedi Master Spock was getting the referrals from).
Kane and Swede did a kind of similar thing on the old STrek-v-Swars forum. They'd get dogpiled in a debate, then go run off back to SDN for help by starting up threads there that were related to the debate going on at Strek-v-SWars, then come back after a few days to a few weeks with new ammunition in the form of bogus arguements to continue on with.
-Mike

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Post by Jedi Master Spock » Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:39 pm

To clear up a few things:

First, I'm not worried about SDN invading. People who have posted (or still post) at SDN are perfectly welcome to come, so long as they abide by the rules.

Second, it doesn't seem likely that these boards will die off anytime soon. They may not be growing quickly, but we've reached something of a quorum for useful discussion, and more new visitors are coming to look at this site every day.

Third, I e-mailed Matt Carpenter earlier, and he said his database no longer exists; his host just up and deleted it when he closed the site, so there's no hope of getting an archive of the Digital Breakdown board hosted anywhere. Right now, I would be perfectly willing to stick the strek-v-swars and st-v-sw forum archives in closed form somewhere around here.

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