Teratons or nuthin'

[Mr. Oragahn]

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Games_Workshop# ... _Warhammer

:D

[sonofccn]

Oh I don't know about that. As Mr. Oragahn has show many a time, the WH40K franchise has shown that it has amassed a huge volume of material, and quite a hefty amount of inconsistencies with it. What allows the wiggle room, so to speak, is that most of it is written, and it's the play on words is what lets the 40Kers get away with twisting things around, plus not many people are willing to buy, borrow, or online research the material to go looking for it. It's just too much.
-Mike

I didn't mean to imply otherwise sir only that, as you say, fewer people are really aware of 40k in any real sense and fewer see the merit to alter that state. It would be harder for a random poster to know he's being misled by the "groupthink" and harder to find evidence to discount it with its scattered across dozens of books he/she likely hasn't read. Obviously I would hold Mr. Oragahn's efforts as a triumph of what rationality, dedication and honest apprasial can accomplish in terms of the debate.

Regarding the popularity of Warhammer 40000, considering that it's the crown's jewel, their prime franchise, the company's results can conservatively estimated to be provided up to 50% by Warhammer 40000. The company went through rough times in the past, but it works wonderfully these days, as we see with their revenues between 100 and 200 M quids.

Well I didn't mean to imply it wasn't profitable, merely less well known outside its narrow group of interest.

40k is probably missing some high quality movie to take off.

Possibly through I'd argue a well done series would do more to its credit allowing 40k to display its breadth and relative diversity, what I think is its stronger atributes, than a single movie which would run the risk of just being a cookie cutter clone of other, similar, works.

[Mr. Oragahn]

A series would be a good bet but it wouldn't get enough attention. A series followed by a movie would strongly mean the movie not even reaching the big screen and suffering the Firefly treatment.
The movie they made was quite a bad joke. The quality of it was so mediocre it fell way below any CGI cutscene, with a plot and situations very flat.
I can see plenty of reasons going for either series of three movies.

[Mith]

A series would be a good bet but it wouldn't get enough attention. A series followed by a movie would strongly mean the movie not even reaching the big screen and suffering the Firefly treatment.
The movie they made was quite a bad joke. The quality of it was so mediocre it fell way below any CGI cutscene, with a plot and situations very flat.
I can see plenty of reasons going for either series of three movies.

Ugh, the Ultramarines movie was so bad, that it made Star Trek The Motion Picture seem like an intriguing, quick paced sci-fi movie with shocking plot twists.

[User13440]

we also get Starcrat's getting teratons. Not for some super rare weapons mind you, but literally ship-to-ship weapons, featured in a protoss internal fight. Evidence of that, however?
Nothing.

The evidence isn't in that quote, it's from other sources just saying. Like in the calculation I did later in the thread and in another thread which is linked in the first post.

Regardless of how crazy it is, due to Starcraft having no Canon policy, inconsistency is ripe. As such, you have yields going from sub-kiloton all the way to the petatons and all of them are equally Canon.

That post was just showing that depending upon the yields for protoss you use, that their shields can block them.

[Mr. Oragahn]

The evidence isn't in that quote, it's from other sources just saying. Like in the calculation I did later in the thread and in another thread which is linked in the first post.

Regardless of how crazy it is, due to Starcraft having no Canon policy, inconsistency is ripe. As such, you have yields going from sub-kiloton all the way to the petatons and all of them are equally Canon.

That post was just showing that depending upon the yields for protoss you use, that their shields can block them.

But why did you insist on the teratons, like if the figure was reliable, instead of pointing out the huge inconsistency?
I personally stay away from Starcraft. The universe is seriously fucked up on several levels, notably since some hastily cobbled fluff which was used as a good enough background for a game was suddenly taken seriously and mixed to game mechanics taken literally at times, then attempted to be turned into a believable setting, only for SCII to add another layer of WTFLOL.

http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum/view ... =12&t=1554
http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum/view ... 6&start=15

I'm sorry for SC fans but really, the background doesn't deserve to be treated with any kind of seriousness. The rule of cool raped credibility a long time ago.

[Khas]

Hey, it's not nearly as bad as what became of Doctor Who.

[User13440]

But why did you insist on the teratons, like if the figure was reliable, instead of pointing out the huge inconsistency?

It's consistent with the purifications (Mar Sara, Chau Sara, Urona Sigma, Antiga Prime, yadda yadda), but that's really the only times we see their weapons that can be calculated. There's really no other place to calculate their weapons. The sub-kiloton what not comes from Shadow of the Xel'naga, Uprising, and whatnot.

You can't have their ships capable of tearing down planets like Mar Sara to the molten core, covering it completely in blue molten flames, in minutes without biggatons.

Oh, and about Mar Sara? A small group of Terrans terraformed the planet back into a livable condition in a single year, even though it was ripped down to the core.

Let's just say that there are numerous sources for terratons, non-teratons, and so on and so forth, with each contradiction being equally canon.

The Terrans have FTL delivered petaton nukes according to the manual, yet the same bombardment scene is done entirely different in Uprising via Battle cruisers and non-biggatons for example. Both are equal.

Contradictions abound really everywhere.

I personally stay away from Starcraft. The universe is seriously fucked up on several levels, notably since some hastily cobbled fluff which was used as a good enough background for a game was suddenly taken seriously and mixed to game mechanics taken literally at times, then attempted to be turned into a believable setting, only for SCII to add another layer of WTFLOL.

I still like it.

http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum/view ... =12&t=1554
http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum/view ... 6&start=15

I'm sorry for SC fans but really, the background doesn't deserve to be treated with any kind of seriousness. The rule of cool raped credibility a long time ago.

I'm an anime/Doctor Who fan. I care not for Verisimilitude.

There is evidence for practically any firepower figure in Starcraft really. The Terrans recently destroyed a small moon sized station with a few nukes, while in Uprising, their tanks can punch holes through the armor of capital ships, which the same book insinuates are 11 kilometers long.

Or how Raynor defeated a Protoss Purification fleet with one Battlecruiser even though a Super Carrier can destroy squadrons of Battlecruisers by themselves. Given that Metzen's response to someone asking this was "Suspension of Disbelief," well, consistency is just really not a big concern in terms of technical abilities.

Hey, it's not nearly as bad as what became of Doctor Who.

I like that too, though if you try to take it seriously, your in the wrong place. :p

[Khas]

StarCraft II shows that the Minotaur-class Battlecruisers are about 580 meters long. And some scaling on StarCraft Legacy seems to suggest that Behemoth-class Battlecruisers are about 1 km long. Since there are different classes of Battlecruisers, the 11 km ones might be the equivalent of the Executor.

As for Raynor taking on the Protoss purification fleet with one Battlecruiser, well, ever hear of Jack Churchill?

[Khas]

As for Doctor Who, Fairyland was confirmed to exist in it. Yes, the Doctor mentioned that "Fairyland looks completely different" in the Christmas special.

[Jedi Master Spock]

A series would be a good bet but it wouldn't get enough attention. A series followed by a movie would strongly mean the movie not even reaching the big screen and suffering the Firefly treatment.
The movie they made was quite a bad joke. The quality of it was so mediocre it fell way below any CGI cutscene, with a plot and situations very flat.
I can see plenty of reasons going for either series of three movies.

Ugh, the Ultramarines movie was so bad, that it made Star Trek The Motion Picture seem like an intriguing, quick paced sci-fi movie with shocking plot twists.

Honestly, TMP isn't that bad. You can watch I-IV straight through and have a good time with that as a movie marathon. It did badly relative to its budget, but that was because it was an expensive movie, rather than a bad movie.

I'm not sure WH40K actually has that good of a fan base for launching a movie - you've got a range of fans from ones who seem to take it seriously to ones who treat it as an absurdist comedy. Even if Games Workshop is taking in a couple hundred million a year, remember, miniatures wargaming is an expensive hobby. That's not actually that many players buying their stuff.

I think it would probably be hard to make a WH40K movie that reaches out well to a general audience and be well-received by WH40K fans.

[Mr. Oragahn]

A series would be a good bet but it wouldn't get enough attention. A series followed by a movie would strongly mean the movie not even reaching the big screen and suffering the Firefly treatment.
The movie they made was quite a bad joke. The quality of it was so mediocre it fell way below any CGI cutscene, with a plot and situations very flat.
I can see plenty of reasons going for either series of three movies.

Ugh, the Ultramarines movie was so bad, that it made Star Trek The Motion Picture seem like an intriguing, quick paced sci-fi movie with shocking plot twists.

Honestly, TMP isn't that bad. You can watch I-IV straight through and have a good time with that as a movie marathon. It did badly relative to its budget, but that was because it was an expensive movie, rather than a bad movie.

I'm not sure WH40K actually has that good of a fan base for launching a movie - you've got a range of fans from ones who seem to take it seriously to ones who treat it as an absurdist comedy. Even if Games Workshop is taking in a couple hundred million a year, remember, miniatures wargaming is an expensive hobby. That's not actually that many players buying their stuff.

I think it would probably be hard to make a WH40K movie that reaches out well to a general audience and be well-received by WH40K fans.

If one wishes to paint a grimdark movie with a pinch of humour, the closest thing to that would be a horror movie, with precisely a layer of jokes crammed in, somewhere.
Like err that movie with the 3D mutant sharks, Blue Something I think.
Make the setting different, I'd say voila.
And there's clearly even more room for that in an anime, really.
Even ages ago, there was Spawn, very rough. Nowadays, there's much more of that stuff, and WH doesn't need to overdo the gore thing.

[Mr. Oragahn]

But why did you insist on the teratons, like if the figure was reliable, instead of pointing out the huge inconsistency?

It's consistent with the purifications (Mar Sara, Chau Sara, Urona Sigma, Antiga Prime, yadda yadda), but that's really the only times we see their weapons that can be calculated. There's really no other place to calculate their weapons. The sub-kiloton what not comes from Shadow of the Xel'naga, Uprising, and whatnot.

You can't have their ships capable of tearing down planets like Mar Sara to the molten core, covering it completely in blue molten flames, in minutes without biggatons.

Oh, and about Mar Sara? A small group of Terrans terraformed the planet back into a livable condition in a single year, even though it was ripped down to the core.

Let's just say that there are numerous sources for terratons, non-teratons, and so on and so forth, with each contradiction being equally canon.

The Terrans have FTL delivered petaton nukes according to the manual, yet the same bombardment scene is done entirely different in Uprising via Battle cruisers and non-biggatons for example. Both are equal.

Contradictions abound really everywhere.

Indeed, and they are huge. They do things like if they had the industry to build a million Death Stars under a year.

That's why I don't follow the dedication of some of its fans to go so far as to say "OK guys, THIS is the truth, the rest is outlying stuff, so you can use those calcs reliably, blah blah blah".

I personally stay away from Starcraft. The universe is seriously fucked up on several levels, notably since some hastily cobbled fluff which was used as a good enough background for a game was suddenly taken seriously and mixed to game mechanics taken literally at times, then attempted to be turned into a believable setting, only for SCII to add another layer of WTFLOL.

I still like it.

I should have said, within the confines of vs threads, I stay away from those involving Starcraft.

http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum/view ... =12&t=1554
http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum/view ... 6&start=15

I'm sorry for SC fans but really, the background doesn't deserve to be treated with any kind of seriousness. The rule of cool raped credibility a long time ago.

I'm an anime/Doctor Who fan. I care not for Verisimilitude.

Hehe, you better not! :)

Who don't get me wrong, Starcraft is plenty of fun. I finished SC2 not so long ago, and it was a really pleasing experience, and I like watching PvP on youtube from time to time.
But as to take it seriously enough so it could be used in a vs thread, nope.

There is evidence for practically any firepower figure in Starcraft really. The Terrans recently destroyed a small moon sized station with a few nukes, while in Uprising, their tanks can punch holes through the armor of capital ships, which the same book insinuates are 11 kilometers long.

Or how Raynor defeated a Protoss Purification fleet with one Battlecruiser even though a Super Carrier can destroy squadrons of Battlecruisers by themselves. Given that Metzen's response to someone asking this was "Suspension of Disbelief," well, consistency is just really not a big concern in terms of technical abilities.

The problem one could raise, though, is that so much nonsense can actually hurt suspension of disbelief. It reaches beyond the mere versusdom.

[Mith]

A series would be a good bet but it wouldn't get enough attention. A series followed by a movie would strongly mean the movie not even reaching the big screen and suffering the Firefly treatment.
The movie they made was quite a bad joke. The quality of it was so mediocre it fell way below any CGI cutscene, with a plot and situations very flat.
I can see plenty of reasons going for either series of three movies.

Ugh, the Ultramarines movie was so bad, that it made Star Trek The Motion Picture seem like an intriguing, quick paced sci-fi movie with shocking plot twists.

Honestly, TMP isn't that bad. You can watch I-IV straight through and have a good time with that as a movie marathon. It did badly relative to its budget, but that was because it was an expensive movie, rather than a bad movie.

I'm not sure WH40K actually has that good of a fan base for launching a movie - you've got a range of fans from ones who seem to take it seriously to ones who treat it as an absurdist comedy. Even if Games Workshop is taking in a couple hundred million a year, remember, miniatures wargaming is an expensive hobby. That's not actually that many players buying their stuff.

I think it would probably be hard to make a WH40K movie that reaches out well to a general audience and be well-received by WH40K fans.

Oh, it was a movie on a budget for sure. But they could have done so much better. The writing was shit. The acting was shit. I've seen bad TOS episodes that had more entertainment value. Yes, even the really bad ones.

As in regards to the expense of the hobby, my understanding is that Games Workshop is one of the worst. And I believe it. A friend and myself compared some of their prices to other things--not only were the 40k versions typically of lower quality, but they often cost twice as much as something of the same size and expected detail. Other sources, such as 4 chan, suggest that this is due to poor management within the company, as opposed to simply just a niche hobby.

[Mr. Oragahn]

As in regards to the expense of the hobby, my understanding is that Games Workshop is one of the worst. And I believe it. A friend and myself compared some of their prices to other things--not only were the 40k versions typically of lower quality, but they often cost twice as much as something of the same size and expected detail. Other sources, such as 4 chan, suggest that this is due to poor management within the company, as opposed to simply just a niche hobby.

You mean, as an explanation to the ratio price/quality?
Methinks it's stellar management, smaller investment possible, largest ROI. Perfect.
And even if a niche hobby, they have a strong grasp on it. With that kind of monopoly, support, word of mouth and ubiquitous presence, you can almost dictate any price you want.