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Kazeite
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Post by Kazeite » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:45 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote: "Big O"? :)
Makes it sound like an enlarged hole. O_O
Well... that superlative looked much better in my head :)

How about "Great master Oh"? :D

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l33telboi
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Post by l33telboi » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:16 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:But I think there's also a yield given to the LAAT missiles used in AOTC.
Something, once again, near the megaton range, or right in it.
The same missiles which are used against CIS wheel droids...
Can't recall the exact figure, but i believe it was in the triple digit megaton range.

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Mr. Oragahn
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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:26 pm

Kazeite wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote: "Big O"? :)
Makes it sound like an enlarged hole. O_O
Well... that superlative looked much better in my head :)

How about "Great master Oh"? :D
Great Master Oh and the Supreme Wang Shakers.

Makes a fantastic Mottown band name!

@l33telboi

Triple digit megaton?? Do'h. That's even more funny.
Oh but I guess that missiles can be dialed down. To the equivalent of a few hand grenades.

Seriously, if I had a copy of the latest two ICS, just for the fun, I'd pick every single yield in there and check how it meshes with film evidence.
A fun ride in perspective.
Problem: I don't think I'll ever buy any of these books. :o|

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Praeothmin
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Post by Praeothmin » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:23 pm

Great Master Oh and the Supreme Wang Shakers wrote :) :
I don't think I'll ever buy any of these books. :o|
You should, I eventually will, if only to have a great visual reference to the SW universe, and even if I don't believe in the weapons' yields, the ships plans and tech explanations more than make up for it, IMO... :)

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Mr. Oragahn
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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:12 am

I prefer the "Locations" books.
That is, that money is best invested in Kotor iterations and future SW action games.

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Praeothmin
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Post by Praeothmin » Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:58 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote:
That is, that money is best invested in Kotor iterations and future SW action games.
Well, you got me there... :)
Kotor is definatly a "must have"...

Batman
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Post by Batman » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:54 pm

@l33telboi
Triple digit megaton?? Do'h. That's even more funny.
Oh but I guess that missiles can be dialed down. To the equivalent of a few hand grenades.
Dial-a-yield warheads are used on modern-day missiles. And feel free to create the AotC missile effects with a few handgrenades. REAL handgrenades, not Hollywood OMG huge fireball ones.
Not that missiles ever carry varying payloads depending on mission in the real world. Oh wait.
Seriously, if I had a copy of the latest two ICS, just for the fun, I'd pick every single yield in there and check how it meshes with film evidence.
You'll find that not a single one of them is directly contradicted.

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Mr. Oragahn
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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:52 am

Batman wrote:
Seriously, if I had a copy of the latest two ICS, just for the fun, I'd pick every single yield in there and check how it meshes with film evidence.
You'll find that not a single one of them is directly contradicted.
I'm not as confident as you are. We already checked certain figures, like the Slave-I's missiles and guitar-bombs, SPHAT-T cannons, geonosian fighters cannons, and thusly verified LAAT shielding. We've also seen a good example of a LAAT's missiles' yield.

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Post by Batman » Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:08 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Batman wrote:
Seriously, if I had a copy of the latest two ICS, just for the fun, I'd pick every single yield in there and check how it meshes with film evidence.
You'll find that not a single one of them is directly contradicted.
I'm not as confident as you are. We already checked certain figures, like the Slave-I's missiles and guitar-bombs, SPHAT-T cannons, geonosian fighters cannons, and thusly verified LAAT shielding. We've also seen a good example of a LAAT's missiles' yield.
I note a distinct lack of numbers,as well as a complete failure to adress my points. The ICS numbers need to DIRECTLY CONTRADICT the movies, not just fail to be supported by them. Especially considering that downscaling from the DS1 gets you firepower way in excess of the Venators' 200GT per bolt already.

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Praeothmin
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Post by Praeothmin » Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:21 am

Batman wrote:
Especially considering that downscaling from the DS1 gets you firepower way in excess of the Venators' 200GT per bolt already.
So if we downscale Han's heavy blaster from a Heavy Turbolaser (which SW.com says they're basically the same thing, using the same mechanism), we should get close to a Ton of TNT per shot, right?

(I'm of course refering to a loosely based estimation of the volume of the bolts fired from the HTL of an ISD and the volume of the bolts fired by Han's blaster. Scaling down from 200 GT, if Han's blaster bolt has a
1 000 000 000 times less volume, then it should equate to 200 tons of power)

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Mr. Oragahn
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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:22 am

Batman wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Batman wrote: You'll find that not a single one of them is directly contradicted.
I'm not as confident as you are. We already checked certain figures, like the Slave-I's missiles and guitar-bombs, SPHAT-T cannons, geonosian fighters cannons, and thusly verified LAAT shielding. We've also seen a good example of a LAAT's missiles' yield.
I note a distinct lack of numbers,as well as a complete failure to adress my points. The ICS numbers need to DIRECTLY CONTRADICT the movies, not just fail to be supported by them. Especially considering that downscaling from the DS1 gets you firepower way in excess of the Venators' 200GT per bolt already.
Oh, yes, the downscaling argument. You see, I think we're moving into a big debate right now.
Maybe we should actually adress it bits by bits, no?
There's like a couple of threads about the ICS, and we could have one about the downscaling argument.

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Post by Batman » Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:44 pm

Praeothmin wrote:Batman wrote:
Especially considering that downscaling from the DS1 gets you firepower way in excess of the Venators' 200GT per bolt already.
So if we downscale Han's heavy blaster from a Heavy Turbolaser (which SW.com says they're basically the same thing, using the same mechanism), we should get close to a Ton of TNT per shot, right?
I wasn't aware that SW.com was particularly canon, and there's several discrepancies between the way TLs and infantry level blasters work, but if the numbers work out that way, yes?
(I'm of course refering to a loosely based estimation of the volume of the bolts fired from the HTL of an ISD and the volume of the bolts fired by Han's blaster. Scaling down from 200 GT, if Han's blaster bolt has a
1 000 000 000 times less volume, then it should equate to 200 tons of power)
Yeah, because it's the volume of the bolt that matters (which, incidentally, is impossible to even approximately scale thanks to there being no way to tell what is glow and what is actually bolt) as opposed to the volume of the weapon.

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Praeothmin
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Post by Praeothmin » Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:31 pm

Batman wrote:
Yeah, because it's the volume of the bolt that matters (which, incidentally, is impossible to even approximately scale thanks to there being no way to tell what is glow and what is actually bolt) as opposed to the volume of the weapon.
Ok, forget the volume of the Bolt then.
But then must we assume that scaling down from 200 GT, if Han's blaster bolt has a 1 000 000 000 times less volume, then it should equate to 200 tons of power, and that you believe it should be valid?
I wasn't aware that SW.com was particularly canon, and there's several discrepancies between the way TLs and infantry level blasters work, but if the numbers work out that way, yes?
Well, since SW.com is under the "care" of LucasFilms/Licensing/corp (whatever), why should it be less canon then any of the EU?

And do you truly believe that there are less discrepancies between two Bolt weapons that exhibit the same kind of behavior (massless bolts, explode on impact) then between a bolt weapon (HTL) and a congragating beam weapon (DS superlaser)?

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Post by Batman » Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:36 pm

Praeothmin wrote:Batman wrote:
Yeah, because it's the volume of the bolt that matters (which, incidentally, is impossible to even approximately scale thanks to there being no way to tell what is glow and what is actually bolt) as opposed to the volume of the weapon.
Ok, forget the volume of the Bolt then.
But then must we assume that scaling down from 200 GT, if Han's blaster bolt has a 1 000 000 000 times less volume, then it should equate to 200 tons of power, and that you believe it should be valid?
Should any of the canon sources ever attribute that much power to the DL-44 and fail to be contradicted by higher canon sources, yes?
I wasn't aware that SW.com was particularly canon, and there's several discrepancies between the way TLs and infantry level blasters work, but if the numbers work out that way, yes?
Well, since SW.com is under the "care" of LucasFilms/Licensing/corp (whatever), why should it be less canon then any of the EU?
Because Star Wars happens to have a rather elaborate canon policy and either SW.com is mentioned in it, or it isn't?
And do you truly believe that there are less discrepancies between two Bolt weapons that exhibit the same kind of behavior (massless bolts, explode on impact) then between a bolt weapon (HTL) and a congragating beam weapon (DS superlaser)?
I was not aware that hand blasters ever did any damage to the target before the visible bolt hit. TLs DO.
And no I do NOT say the DS superlaser, TLs and hand weapons neccessarily function identically. However, since Wars has the technology to do the DS superlaser it is easily within their grasp to do 200GT MTLs on an Acclamator.

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Mr. Oragahn
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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:06 am

Batman wrote:Should any of the canon sources ever attribute that much power to the DL-44 and fail to be contradicted by higher canon sources, yes?
Not sure to get what you say. I think the initial point is simple, however. With TLs and blasters showing no difference in effects, why would the downscaling work from the Death Star superlaser, to a capital ship's TL, and not from, say a capital ship turbolaser, and a blaster?
And do you truly believe that there are less discrepancies between two Bolt weapons that exhibit the same kind of behavior (massless bolts, explode on impact) then between a bolt weapon (HTL) and a congragating beam weapon (DS superlaser)?
I was not aware that hand blasters ever did any damage to the target before the visible bolt hit. TLs DO.
Please. TLs did that once. Twice, at best. Just as much as there's a laser cannon barely missing Yoda in ROTS, on Kashyyyk, exploding on the wall one frame or two before the visible bolt reaches the same point of impact on the wall.
Or there's Luke's hand in ROTJ, hit by a blaster bolt when he's fighting on Jabba's barge, where the bolt itself doesn't exactly hit where the flesh got burned.

Even those peculiar and minor incidents look likely to be explained by the same principle, in that the damaging bolt and the visible bolt are two different things.
But beside those very rare events, all of those bolt weapons show the exact same properties and mechanisms.
And no I do NOT say the DS superlaser, TLs and hand weapons neccessarily function identically. However, since Wars has the technology to do the DS superlaser it is easily within their grasp to do 200GT MTLs on an Acclamator.
Huh, how so? The superlaser is precisely very different, in effects, to a random turbolaser. The superlaser is a very special weapon of a kind. Above all, it requires massive power generators to work.
So saying that 200 GT turbolasers are possible, medium or not, because superlasers exist, is just preposterous. The logic is completely cut, those two elements are irrelevant to each other. There's no adequate consequence from A to B.

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