SBC thread on SW firepower... again... :)

[User1663]

As for the trench armour being breached, how is that as a hole is made in the supposedly armour, nothing gets sucked into space?

How is it that Leo1 is not permanently banned from that site, but you are?

I bet it's a conspiracy.

[Mr. Oragahn]

As for the trench armour being breached, how is that as a hole is made in the supposedly armour, nothing gets sucked into space?

How is it that Leo1 is not permanently banned from that site, but you are?

I bet it's a conspiracy.

Ditto.

[Lucky]

As for the trench armour being breached, how is that as a hole is made in the supposedly armour, nothing gets sucked into space?

How is it that Leo1 is not permanently banned from that site, but you are?

I bet it's a conspiracy.

I think the word conspiracy is a bit strong. Getting rid of Mr.O killed the most interesting threads to read at Spacebattles.

[Praeothmin]

As for the trench armour being breached, how is that as a hole is made in the supposedly armour, nothing gets sucked into space?

How is it that Leo1 is not permanently banned from that site, but you are?

I bet it's a conspiracy.

Honestly, are you going to defend the fact that Leo1, flamer of flamers, lyer of lyers, is not protected by the mods?
We have many, many examples of that guy flaming other SB members, who them flame back, only they get banned for a week while Leo1 gets a flimsy warning...

[Mr. Oragahn]

Let's remember that the only ban he got was because he asked for it (totally serious).
There are those members who simply get a free ride, that is all.
Now, atom, if you think you can move beyond your snide remarks and actually debate anything, now should be a good tome for you to demonstrate such an ability.
Being a jackass is of very limited use here.

[Praeothmin]

Wow, Connor is an ass...

Repeated arguments how ships capable of firing TTs will never be threatened by even high MTs, and why it is thus stupid for SW ships to fire such MT/KT shots fly right over his head...
Or, they fly right by it as he continually dodges out of the way in order for the evidence not to hit him... :)

[Mr. Oragahn]

So he came out of the woods and decided to defend some typical tartaton figures. The very specific logic he employs would give a lot of clues as to how he actually ended pulling some far fetched numbers for 40K.

On another note, regarding the scaling of the asteroid from AOTC, I may be able to provide an explanation as to why the method I used, and which Rama reused to obtain other numbers, is correct.
The problem is that it will be a bit lengthy and require several pictures, and I reckon that for people not at ease with three dimensions projecting, it can be difficult. I'm not saying it's super obvious either, so I'll need to work on it in order to make it clear enough.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Damn, Connor's big bluff on baiting l33telboi calling the mods for Connor's anti-science, which he thinks allows him to completely snipe and dodge all the counterarguments thrown at him is just too pathetic.

Hey, look at his last trick in order to bow out of a debate without being called on his bullshit (aka we're on the same boat and all tired of this and no amount of quotes should settle the debate and that's not the way to do it):

This isn't going to be resolved by beating people over the heads with quotes and saying 'NO YOU'RE WRONG', because that's the precise fucking pattern that has been going on for every single goddamn thread that involves the fucking ICS and fucking canon. It's becoming dogma and its goddamn tiresome. Hell, I'm even vaguely tempted ot just say 'fine, whatever, the ICS is wrong, its invalid, let's throw it out, happy?' just to shut people up.

A tie. That's what he's aiming for. After all the BS. lol
Problem is, using quotations has precisely been the way to go to understand the universe and prove a point. I mean, now it's evil to insist that you actually understand the quote correctly?
Let him go, then. He obviously never understood what he talked about then.
OH B-B-BUT WAIT!!! Isn't it exactly what he's still doing with his Warhammer 40000 threads??
LOOKS LIKE IT IS! :D
Uh huh...
Yes, the accusation of hypocrisy isn't stolen at all.

[Lucky]

Damn, Connor's big bluff on baiting l33telboi calling the mods for Connor's anti-science, which he thinks allows him to completely snipe and dodge all the counterarguments thrown at him is just too pathetic.

Hey, look at his last trick in order to bow out of a debate without being called on his bullshit (aka we're on the same boat and all tired of this and no amount of quotes should settle the debate and that's not the way to do it):

This isn't going to be resolved by beating people over the heads with quotes and saying 'NO YOU'RE WRONG', because that's the precise fucking pattern that has been going on for every single goddamn thread that involves the fucking ICS and fucking canon. It's becoming dogma and its goddamn tiresome. Hell, I'm even vaguely tempted ot just say 'fine, whatever, the ICS is wrong, its invalid, let's throw it out, happy?' just to shut people up.

A tie. That's what he's aiming for. After all the BS. lol
Problem is, using quotations has precisely been the way to go to understand the universe and prove a point. I mean, now it's evil to insist that you actually understand the quote correctly?
Let him go, then. He obviously never understood what he talked about then.
OH B-B-BUT WAIT!!! Isn't it exactly what he's still doing with his Warhammer 40000 threads??
LOOKS LIKE IT IS! :D
Uh huh...
Yes, the accusation of hypocrisy isn't stolen at all.

You may want to compare Conner in the SB thread and Conner in a similar SD.net assuming they are actually the same person.

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... 3f984b5b83

[Mr. Oragahn]

He is one and the same.

[User1663]

Let's remember that the only ban he got was because he asked for it (totally serious).
There are those members who simply get a free ride, that is all.
Now, atom, if you think you can move beyond your snide remarks and actually debate anything, now should be a good tome for you to demonstrate such an ability.
Being a jackass is of very limited use here.

Sorry, am I being asked to treat this 'WARSIE40KER ILLUMANTI SCI-FI CABAL' nonsense with even a modicum of semi-seriousness?

(sigh)....I guess I'll start off by asking anyone here if they know what flaming actually is, because I've seen Leo1 post for a long time, and I've witnessed a lot more hurt feelings and butthurt (especially around here) then any serious flaming taking place.

[User1663]

So he came out of the woods and decided to defend some typical tartaton figures. The very specific logic he employs would give a lot of clues as to how he actually ended pulling some far fetched numbers for 40K.

I understand everyone on this site seems to be trapped in some kind of time-displacement bubble where everything is half a decade earlier then it should be, but you are aware he's also argued for much lower numbers in the last few months yes?

In the last Trek vs. 40K thread he outright stated that there's a good chance a small fleet of Romulan warbirds might be able to cripple or destroy an Imperial cruiser.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Let's remember that the only ban he got was because he asked for it (totally serious).
There are those members who simply get a free ride, that is all.
Now, atom, if you think you can move beyond your snide remarks and actually debate anything, now should be a good tome for you to demonstrate such an ability.
Being a jackass is of very limited use here.

Sorry, am I being asked to treat this 'WARSIE40KER ILLUMANTI SCI-FI CABAL' nonsense with even a modicum of semi-seriousness?

Derision, the main dodging trick. I'm not surprised you use it. Yet the records exist and show that there clearly was an abuse, with mods only favouring the same side. As simple as that. I have the proof in threads here. I have even quoted the stupid excuses I was given for getting banned. The kind of stupid reasons that would get half the SB board banned a thousand times over if they ever were equally applied to everybody. And the only way you could honestly prove me delluded would be to engage in proper debate on the topics that got me banned. Somehow, I don't think you'd like to go there.
I also know that some members on the opposite side were -and still are- in very good relations with the mods who had a hand in banning me, following my debating.
In the end, if you're just gonna be a prick, you might just leave. Your interventions have not been particularly enjoyable here since you registered.
In fact, not a single post of yours has been constructive or even pleasant. Moreover, why should I bother with you?

(sigh)....I guess I'll start off by asking anyone here if they know what flaming actually is, because I've seen Leo1 post for a long time, and I've witnessed a lot more hurt feelings and butthurt (especially around here) then any serious flaming taking place.

Who's talking about flaming?
Oh, just on a that note. Since when have you been reading Leo's posts? I've been on SBC long before you even registered at SBC, and I know the amount of baiting and flaming he'd use to get what he wanted. He always got out of it unharmed.

So he came out of the woods and decided to defend some typical tartaton figures. The very specific logic he employs would give a lot of clues as to how he actually ended pulling some far fetched numbers for 40K.

I understand everyone on this site seems to be trapped in some kind of time-displacement bubble where everything is half a decade earlier then it should be, but you are aware he's also argued for much lower numbers in the last few months yes?

Yeah, when he backpedaled from his mundane megajoule pistol shots.
What makes you think Connor is so important that I have to register to his RSS feed so I don't miss his latest twist in dialectics?
More to the point; why do you defend him so badly? Did he save your cat from drowning or something?

In the last Trek vs. 40K thread he outright stated that there's a good chance a small fleet of Romulan warbirds might be able to cripple or destroy an Imperial cruiser.

Behold the new paradigm: firepower's somewhere in the gigatons, but can go up to teratons or down to megatons and even allow kilotons.
I believe that with that kind of flexibility he has definitely found a common ground for all figures. :P

I dont know when, or if I even will do another of those threads. For one thing they're time consuming to set up, and second trying to be 'absolute' like that is more than likely to bite me on the ass if I try to set a 'standard'. I did that once before, stuff like Rogue Trader comes around and says 'nuh uh,' and then I have to change things again.

If I have a new PARADIGM for 40K starship firepower, its that it MAY be sitting somewhere in the gigaton range, but I settle for that because its a convenient position form which to shift down to MEGATONS or up to TERATONS at need, and thats roughly where the range of firepower generally sits (with some cases of kilotons and/or Petatons to bookend the mark results.) Given the number of variables involved with offensive, defensive, and such options available to 40k ships (and the variability in interpretations available) it's not really all that important to establish a 'standard' anyhow. They could face different kinds of enemies with wildly varying capabilities along that scale, so they'd probably tailor it to their needs (fuel constraints, maintenance issues on the weapons, etc.)

Example: Gigaton or teraton scale weapons could exist for starships, but they may be ominidirectional warheads, which means that a.) a large percentage (at least half) of the energy gets wasted b.) they further away, the less damage they do. Given the aformentioned 'saturate the area with gunfire and hope some hits' approach ascribed to macro cannons (at least at longer ranges) against certain targets, that means that you could throw a lot of GIGATONS out at the target, but only a fraction of that energy may actually hit or do damage for various reasons (Not unlike Space combat in Andromeda or the Honorverse, really.)

More precise or focused weapons could afford to have considrably lower yields than the explosives (megaton range warheads or mines that are directed yield, even kiloton/tetrajoules, depending on how it works) and still be effective, just by affecting the target differently. Lasers punching narrow holes in the target to hit vital internal components, or lasers/lances that rake the target to slice holes in it, rather than just melting/vaping huge chunks of it, for example.

In an universe where ship to ship weapons are quite large and where shields are still ought to withstand weapons which, even if omnidirectional, would still release more than 30% of their yield on them (he goes with 50%), we are asked to believe that kiloton beams coming from the large bores would be as potent as omnidirectional spreads of particles, electrons and photons, rated in the gigaton/teraton ranges.
Right. That's quite a novative theory he has there. Oh I have no doubt he's going to pretend it works wonders, wonderfully argument-sealed, encompassing as much evidence as possible, floating as fine as the American Queen under a sunny day. Woop-tee-doo!

Well. There's a name for that, I believe. It's called CHUTZPAH!

Or in other words, he has no real clue as to how he can cleverly get out of the mess he spent years wanking off, so he spreads wide and crosses his fingers, thanks to his new all encompassing grand theory of firepowers (which -and that's the twist- he dials up and down), and has no shame suggesting high kiloton/low megaton for macro shells, with (from his earlier bit) warheads that could be up to the giga/teraton level. Or that he thinks that a flotilla of Romulan Birds of Prey which could each add up to dozens or hundreds of gigatons of firepower (and that's not counting tricks such as dumping all core AM or whatever into space with transporters) might have a chance to take down one of those smaller Lunar class destroyers at the lower end of the scale. Yet he argues that ship to ship beams in the terajoule range or even low megaton range are going to be relevant in 40K.
...
Somehow, doesn't he think that this kind of disparity would be reflected rather squarely in the rules or even in the fluff, anytime a ship would be directly hit by such GT/TT warheads, considering that just like macro shells, torpedoes are fired in volleys ?
Have fun following him in his game of blurring everything so he will always be able to remind people that his opinions had been correct, at some point in time, ha! After all, a clock is always right twice a day, even if broken.
Oh, yes, I'm going to call him broken clock. Suits him.

Can't wait to see him use his "new paradigm" to crap all over his Caves of Ice calcs though.

PS : guided torpedoes actually are not a common commodity at all.

[Mr. Oragahn]

I think the word conspiracy is a bit strong. Getting rid of Mr.O killed the most interesting threads to read at Spacebattles.

Thanks but you're out selling the trinket here. There's plenty of good stuff to read at SBC, even if you only intend to produce a fiction that shall make sense. The technical forum is that odd crossover between a fanboy's dreams and the American Scientist.

[User1663]

Derision, the main dodging trick. I'm not surprised you use it. Yet the records exist and show that there clearly was an abuse, with mods only favouring the same side. As simple as that. I have the proof in threads here. I have even quoted the stupid excuses I was given for getting banned. The kind of stupid reasons that would get half the SB board banned a thousand times over if they ever were equally applied to everybody. And the only way you could honestly prove me delluded would be to engage in proper debate on the topics that got me banned. Somehow, I don't think you'd like to go there.

I'm sorry, but something like this really sounds simply too ridiculous to be coming from an adult. I mean, this sounds like some of the shit I thought of in 4th grade where we all thought teachers were all just secretly out to stop us from having fun.

Man, sometimes I wish there was a secret SW40Ker mod cabal. Just might have saved me the small mountain of infractions and occasional bans I earned for incredibly inane shit while debating against Star Trek in various vs. threads. In any case, how does your little theory account for somebody like higbvuyb?

Who's talking about flaming?

You are? Like, now I guess?

Oh, just on a that note. Since when have you been reading Leo's posts? I've been on SBC long before you even registered at SBC, and I know the amount of baiting and flaming he'd use to get what he wanted. He always got out of it unharmed.

Then apparently things must have suddenly changed in the last year and a half. I don't really know how you're defining 'flaming' in this context(I'm pretty sure including mean words along with your argument is not flaming).

Yeah, when he backpedaled from his mundane megajoule pistol shots.
What makes you think Connor is so important that I have to register to his RSS feed so I don't miss his latest twist in dialectics?
More to the point; why do you defend him so badly? Did he save your cat from drowning or something?

Nah, I'm just a semantic jackass and noticed you still seemed to think he was arguing teratons and whatnot for 40k. I don't exactly agree with his new position, and I don't particularly care too much about your little back and forth exchanges over the years either. ;)