Brian Young's new website is up!

[Praeothmin]

All of you bring up valid points, but why aren't you bringing them up in the actual ASVS thread?

You don't hate the guy?
Cool, then why don't you help him by explaining these oversights to him where he can actually see them?

I tried, until my damn job blocked the sight, and he's not an asshat like MW or people at SDN or even SB...

Why not discuss this over there?

Are you guys afraid?

See, and I'm not saying this to be mean, but you guys talk about how MW and people from SDN fear leaving their comfortable haven for fear of being confronted and that's why they snipe from a distance, but you guys do the exact same thing...
Damn, it's like SFJ is turning into a mini SDN... :(

[sonofccn]

All of you bring up valid points, but why aren't you bringing them up in the actual ASVS thread?

While this wasn't directed at me, I never bring up valid points, I have thought about rejoining ASVS, apparently I actually have an account I'd forgotten about or someone else used Sonofccn as a handle, but watching the "debate threads" over there I don't see anything worth the bother. Mr. Young may not be a jerk but, in my opinion, his blindness is too selective and too focused to be anything but intentional. Further his supporters in the thread seem equally headstrong and holding, at best, questionable assertions as accepted fact. And at least the one with the O'Neill avatar has advocated an almost StarWarsStarTrekish line of Warsie equal pro-science Trekkie( or anti-Saxton Star Wars at any rate) equal fanciful advocates of make believe magic and posulated resistence to Saxton yields is because you simply don't like a universe with that sort of power rather than an objective analyse of the 'verse in question.

I guess my point, such as this wandering text has one, is that mere difference of opinion/analyse is one thing. But Mr. Young and those who seem to vocally support his efforts on ASVS are more about ending the debate, again this is my opinion of the matter from my limited perspective, then conducting it. I don't see a worthwhile endeavor coming from this.

Damn, it's like SFJ is turning into a mini SDN... :(

It isn't that bad. SFJ doesn't have a party line, you don't have worry about being harrased or booted out simply because you believe X ship can curbstomp Y ship.

[Praeothmin]

Mr. Young may not be a jerk but, in my opinion, his blindness is too selective and too focused to be anything but intentional.

But his "blindness", as you say, seems to go both ways...
He gives Trek abilities Warsies never ackowledged existed, argues that TDiC did happen, because to deny it would mean that everyone in ST is dumb...
He doesn't just give SW all the advantages, and even states he believes Warp Strafing to still exist and be a tactical advantage...

But Mr. Young and those who seem to vocally support his efforts on ASVS are more about ending the debate

And you don't think it's the same thing here?

It isn't that bad. SFJ doesn't have a party line, you don't have worry about being harrased or booted out simply because you believe X ship can curbstomp Y ship.

For now! ;)

Seriously though, you don't think that sniping his arguments from afar, things people here decried when it was done to SFJ from SDN, is actually arguing?
People are debating his conclusions here, where it's safe and no rebuttal might come, while doing it at ASVS would mean Brian Young could defend his views...
Plus, it's not like there are thousands of Warsies over there, Khas is there, and Ty, and they aren't die-hard warsies...

I tried to go into the debate over there, but since my time at home is limited, had to do it in my free time at work, but since the site has been blocked, I can no longer do it...

[mojo]

do you sleep under your desk? because if not, here's what you do:

1. surf to the thread in question on your home computer.

2. open notepad, then copy/paste the thread's text into said notepad window.

3. plug flash drive into your home computer.

4. save notepad directly to the flash drive as 'brianyoung.txt'.

5. unplug flash drive from your home computer.

6. place flash drive gently into pocket of your pants.

7. with flash drive still safely in your pocket, go to work.

8. remove flash drive gently from pocket of your pants.

9. plug flash drive into your work computer.

10. open notepad, then open 'brianyoung.txt' in said notepad window.

11. open new notepad window.

12. work on replies/rebuttals during free time throughout the day in the new notepad window.

13. save finished replies/rebuttals directly to the flash drive as 'brianyoung2.txt'.

14. unplug flash drive from your work computer.

15. return flash drive gently into pocket of your pants.

16. with flash drive still safely in your pocket, go home.

17. remove flash drive gently from pocket of your pants.

18. plug flash drive back into your home computer.

19. open notepad, then open 'brianyoung2.txt' in said notepad window.

20. surf to the thread in question on your home computer.

21. scroll to bottom of page, click button marked 'post reply'. the image on your computer monitor will change from a page full of posts to a page with an empty box in the center. do not be frightened. you have not broken the internet. this is normal.

22. copy/paste rebuttals/replies from 'brianyoung2.txt' into empty box in center of monitor image.

23. when you have finished, click button under the no-longer-empty box marked 'submit'. the image on your computer monitor will change from the page with the no-longer-empty box to the page full of posts.

24. scroll to bottom of page. if you have followed these instructions carefully, you will find that you have joined the debate. congratulations!

25. go to sleep.

26. wake up.

27. return to #1.


i hope that you find these instructions both educational and productive, and i look forward to reading your posts in brian young's original thread.

[mojo]

The "shells" could be something like a capacitor, or a tank of gas(like hydrogen).

what do you mean when you say the shell could be 'like a capacitor'? what would it be its' function? because it sort of seems like you somehow managed to get a copy of the script i've been working on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor# ... nd_weapons

Capacitors are good for storing energy, and then releasing that stored energy very quickly. This is why capacitors are used in things like rail guns, lasers, and electric cars.

so if i'm understanding you correctly, the giant bullets are full of energy, and the energy is released through the cannon as a beam?
doesn't that scenario also contradict the 'weapon strength can be judged by reactor strength' argument? the reactor is not powering the cannons.

also, those shells are the stupidest thing ever, and the fact that they can only hold one bullet at a time makes the idea even more hilarious. it takes the troopers at least ten seconds to pop open the cannon, pull the spent shell, and replace it with a fresh one. if george was going to power his weapons using giant versions of 20th century firearms, you would think he would have realized noone uses single shot guns anymore unless they're hunting or something. this is supposed to be tech FAR in advance of our own, yet, bafflingly, these guys are basically reloading muskets after every shot. what the fuck?
seriously, nothing could convince me the turbolaser/civil war era mix is a good idea. to paraphrase AVGN, 'you have no idea how bad this is. this is like puking on a pile of shit.'

[Praeothmin]

mojo, you for got to describe what I must do to go to work... ;)

And franckly, it's too much efforts for one discussion.
But I am not here rebutting all his posts in this website instead of over there at ASVS... :)

[sonofccn]

But his "blindness", as you say, seems to go both ways...
He gives Trek abilities Warsies never ackowledged existed, argues that TDiC did happen, because to deny it would mean that everyone in ST is dumb...
He doesn't just give SW all the advantages, and even states he believes Warp Strafing to still exist and be a tactical advantage...

Well I can't comment on his Star Trek comentary, save for what I've recieved second hand, through only what I've seen of his work regarding Star Wars. For an example, from his Stormtrooper armor vid, such as were he replay endlessly the C-canon Clone Wars cartoon of Clonetroopers flying through space but neglects to even bring up the T-Canon TCW which shows that while clones can survive in space for a few minutes it is not without extreme risk to their lives.

I admit through I may be drawing erronious conclusions so I will submit to debates/anaylise you feel were "fair-handed" and which I may have bypassed or failed to see their value.

And you don't think it's the same thing here?

Within an extremely narrow context that one tangent of analyise of dubious quality, being selective in what facts and physics it chooses to honor, yes to an extent through even then debate is allowed. SWST got in trouble for mindlessly restarting arguments not because of his beliefs persay.

As to the wider context I would have to disagree wholly. The debate, as in who would win, is far from settled here as is the full parameters of each respective universe. Of hand for instance I believe Mr. DiCenso, yourself and I each hold a slightly different opinion on Federation ship's firepower. As well you and I both argue, I believe, that in an all out war between the two of them the Galactic Empire would prevail against the Federation while Trinoya, IIRC, argued for a stalemate. And then there are the likes of Picard and Lucky who would likely find a GE victory laughable. We're a diverse lot is I guess what I'm struggling towards, far more than I'd argued you see on StarDestroyer.net.

For now! ;)

Who told you about those plans? There supposed to be secret- I mean...whatever are you talking about? (Innocent whistling) :)

Seriously though, you don't think that sniping his arguments from afar, things people here decried when it was done to SFJ from SDN, is actually arguing?
People are debating his conclusions here, where it's safe and no rebuttal might come, while doing it at ASVS would mean Brian Young could defend his views...

Oh I agree with you on that. I would also agree it is similar to what SDN did/does through I'd argue we have better reasoning. That doesn't make it right/correct but, speaking strictly for myself, believe it is the justified response.

Plus, it's not like there are thousands of Warsies over there, Khas is there, and Ty, and they aren't die-hard warsies...

No they are not. And it was Khas who renewed my interest in ASVS. I considered his offer he made here but I did not see enough merit in the battle to justify the frustration.

[Praeothmin]

sonofccn, I agree SFJ is not as bad as SDN, if it were, I'd be long gone, but the distant sniping is getting to me a bit...

I accept pointing to threads that pique your interest, like on SB, or other sites, and describing why you think it's funny...
In Mr. O's case, I understand why he'd reply to SB threads here, since he's perma-banned, but might still have an interest in the subjects being discussed there...

But to actually reply, and almost debate, here, instead of on ASVS where no one will be banned (because the only bannable offenses there are actions against the law), and where there is no "group-think" mentality, I think reeks a bit of "SDN-ism"...

I agree that our arguments are better in most cases, which is why I think these arguments would be better served being posted over there...

[Mike DiCenso]

I'll make you a counter proposal, Praeo: I'll go over to ASVS and participate in the Sci-Fight related threads, if Brian comes over and participates here on SFJN in the various related threads.
-Mike

[Lucky]

All of you bring up valid points, but why aren't you bringing them up in the actual ASVS thread?

You don't hate the guy?
Cool, then why don't you help him by explaining these oversights to him where he can actually see them?

Something stops Brian from lurking at this site?

Would he actually type up a response?

I tried, until my damn job blocked the sight, and he's not an asshat like MW or people at SDN or even SB...

You don't have internet out of your home, and are unable to go to a library or something?

Why not discuss this over there?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shsqQZmwKTQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mZIkcLq_C0&

Are you guys afraid?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G75WApUdYJ4

See, and I'm not saying this to be mean, but you guys talk about how MW and people from SDN fear leaving their comfortable haven for fear of being confronted and that's why they snipe from a distance, but you guys do the exact same thing...

I post on other sites under other names, but I doubt you go to them. I never use the same name twice.

[Lucky]

so if i'm understanding you correctly, the giant bullets are full of energy, and the energy is released through the cannon as a beam?

No the energy would be released in a sudden burst, making it more effective at causing damage. Capacitors used with lasers and Rail guns are like gunpowder in a rifle, musket, or shotgun, it is simply methods of storing energy.

Keep in mind I don't recall anyone actually stating what the canisters are on screen.

doesn't that scenario also contradict the 'weapon strength can be judged by reactor strength' argument? the reactor is not powering the cannons.

There are a lot of things that contradict the reactor out put = weapons output claim in a number of franchises including Star Wars. Heck, the ICS contradicts the idea you can directly power the Turbolasers from the reactor.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb5 ... G_2432.JPG

also, those shells are the stupidest thing ever, and the fact that they can only hold one bullet at a time makes the idea even more hilarious. it takes the troopers at least ten seconds to pop open the cannon, pull the spent shell, and replace it with a fresh one. if george was going to power his weapons using giant versions of 20th century firearms, you would think he would have realized noone uses single shot guns anymore unless they're hunting or something. this is supposed to be tech FAR in advance of our own, yet, bafflingly, these guys are basically reloading muskets after every shot. what the fuck?

Star Wars is WW2(generally speaking) in space. I suggest you research how the 16 inch guns on a battleships worked, how 21st century howitzers work, and tank guns work. They are all manually breach loaders.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M198_howitzer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M777
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M119

Here is the C.I.S. equivalent of a howitzer
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/J-1_semi ... ton_cannon
It is capable of shooting an Acclamator troop transport out of the sky with a single hit.
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... Ryloth.jpg
The "Flak Gun" appear to be very similar in design to Proton Cannons, and seem to shoot the same canisters.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Flak_gun

seriously, nothing could convince me the turbolaser/civil war era mix is a good idea. to paraphrase AVGN, 'you have no idea how bad this is. this is like puking on a pile of shit.'

While I would argue that blasters like the E-11 are about as accurate as muskets I have to disagree about breach loading

[Praeothmin]

Lucky, as I said before, my time at home is very limited, so my highest presence online is at my work, between customer calls and E-mails (I work Tech Support, so if no customer calls or e-mails us, I have nothing to do)...

[sonofccn]

sonofccn, I agree SFJ is not as bad as SDN

Well it isn't like I really thought you thought it was. But I did feel it was important to state why I think we're different from them.

but the distant sniping is getting to me a bit...

And to an extent I would agree with you. Ideally I do believe ideas should meet in the arena and essentially club each other to death until the best reigns supreme.

But to actually reply, and almost debate, here, instead of on ASVS where no one will be banned (because the only bannable offenses there are actions against the law), and where there is no "group-think" mentality, I think reeks a bit of "SDN-ism"...

Well only speaking for myself if I could be lead to believe that it wouldn't be a pointless exercise in frustration I'd at least give it a shot. As it is through I'd expect to hit the same appeals to authority, "science", "reason" and feigned ignorance as I could expect from SWST if however more slickly and compently accomplished. For example:

Exactly. It is not about looking at the evidence and forming an opinion, but rather winning at all costs. It is like fans of opposing sports teams, the point is to disagree, period. But to take it seriously, we have to be like the guys on ESPN, and look at it objectively with certain criteria.
To scoff at a logical argument and run for help to defeat the logic through sheer volume of fallacy...well, that is hard fathom.

As taken from here(Yes...I understand you can't see the link until your home, sorry, but I don't want to look like I'm trying to hide the context or anything)

While Mr. Young is right to complain of Khas "going for reinforcments" the dismissing of the entire opposition, of their "good points", as mere "volume of fallacy" and essentially stating said opposition are unscientific/illogical fighting solely because they are too emotionally invested to conceed to logic and science is not conductive to debate.

Three days, where did that come from?

Anyway, yeah Khas, don't go linking to other boards and stuff. The challenge is to you as an individual. Accept it or decline it. Gauntlet, Khas, calling out.
The way to challenge a hypothesis is to present a superior one, not complain and moan about it. I therefore assume that you have a superior one. I want to hear it. Show us the real answer, and why it is the real answer. Otherwise, admit that you have no superior method or answer.
In short, it is time to put up or shut up.

obtained here

Again while Mr. Young is within his right to argue against Khas and not various others whom Khas links, conversely Khas has a right to link to others for debating purposes as long as he is still debating not relying on others to make his arguments, arguing that one must provide a "superior" hypothesis to challenge a current one strikes me as unscientific, thats like saying I can't disprove Lamarkian evolution until I discover Darwinian evolution, and while I may be reading too much into it sounds similar to the "undefined mechanism" argument of Warsies of old.

[Praeothmin]

Well, if everyone who rebutted Brian's arguments here went to ASVS, then Khas wouldn't look like he was trying to gain help from others...

[Mr. Oragahn]

As to the wider context I would have to disagree wholly. The debate, as in who would win, is far from settled here as is the full parameters of each respective universe. Of hand for instance I believe Mr. DiCenso, yourself and I each hold a slightly different opinion on Federation ship's firepower. As well you and I both argue, I believe, that in an all out war between the two of them the Galactic Empire would prevail against the Federation while Trinoya, IIRC, argued for a stalemate. And then there are the likes of Picard and Lucky who would likely find a GE victory laughable. We're a diverse lot is I guess what I'm struggling towards, far more than I'd argued you see on StarDestroyer.net.

Mith and I were on the side that the GE can't do much against Trek, either the galaxy or only the UFP or another main faction. We spent quite some time highlighting criticial economical issues, other major problems in logistics or the command structure, the problem of maps, the question of acquisition of knowledge from both sides, how the GE never eradicated the rebellion as swiftly as it wished, etc.
The stalemate is quite obvious imho. The GE is a giant house of cards, it can even be toppled with more ease if a major Trek faction grows ties to the rebellion, plus gains access to hyperdrive tech and maps, which are all over the place, etc. On the other hand, the GE may fall, but its remaining "mass" cannot be beaten.

Seriously though, you don't think that sniping his arguments from afar, things people here decried when it was done to SFJ from SDN, is actually arguing?
People are debating his conclusions here, where it's safe and no rebuttal might come, while doing it at ASVS would mean Brian Young could defend his views...
Plus, it's not like there are thousands of Warsies over there, Khas is there, and Ty, and they aren't die-hard warsies...

I tried to go into the debate over there, but since my time at home is limited, had to do it in my free time at work, but since the site has been blocked, I can no longer do it...

His positions are ten effing years old. Why not return him the criticism and ask why he has ignored everything? Was he stuck in a vortex for a full decade? That would probably be the best excuse he might provide. :D
I couldn't care less. I paid attention to all things new he had to say. Old stuff is irrelevant as I've seen it's dusty. That he acknowledges TDiC... oh boy, about time! Did he even try to rationalize it though, or was he just saying "OK, it happened"? Over the past years here I think we had like two or three threads about TDiC and some ideas were suggested as to make that weird outlier something that could have indeed happened in a ST world not so awesome. Now, should SFJN members repeat all of this or would they be allowed to let BY read those threads first at least?
I have no reason to waste my time repeating the sum of work done over a period of ten years merely because BY didn't stick his head out of whatever hole he was hiding in and realize that life was really different outside of SDN.
Even before he want to ASVS, when he started to argue on Stargate, about 9/10s and plus of what he was saying was grossly incorrect. I demonstrated that his methods were identical to plain dishonesty (because I wasn't nasty enough to call him an idiot since that was the only other option possible). He had an idea, and then all of the evidence either had to fit that premise, or be ditched. Literally. Like Connor does for 40K you know. Same place, same spirit.
If you wish to verify what I say, I'm giving you the link to the thread:
http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum/view ... f=4&t=1685
You'll see that his "mistakes" were absurdly easy to avoid, and that his cherry picking was massive. Like pulsar massive.

Why didn't he join here? SFJN has (or had) more members than ASVS, has more data than ASVS, had more activity (until a certain point post-SWST / good job letting a troll wreck the place).
ASVS was an experiment and by his own admin's admission, it's been deemed a failure, and subsequently altered to work like... SFJN.
Why the redundancy?