Asteroids vs Flak Bursts on USVSD

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Cock_Knocker
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Post by Cock_Knocker » Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:24 pm

Jedi Master Spock wrote:FYI, that was not the first gentle admonishment to all parties involved to cool down in a thread split from the SDN thread.
Cock_Knocker wrote:BTW, littlboi, (or whatever the hell your name is)
Now this is quite clearly rude. You should take this as a direct warning to you specifically.
Oh my! What about:
Mr. Oragahn wrote:And of course, on Poe's WMD page, in that chapter about asteroids and A-holes (please notice the irony),
That's just the height of good manners, eh?

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Cock_Knocker
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Post by Cock_Knocker » Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:26 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:Snip
Wow...all that work, and I couldn't care less. But you're welcome to your interpretation of the scene, no matter how wrong it is.

Dragoon
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Post by Dragoon » Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:29 pm

Cock_Knocker wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote:Snip
Wow...all that work, and I couldn't care less. But you're welcome to your interpretation of the scene, no matter how wrong it is.
What, no counter-arguement? Nothing at all? Way to avoid the entire debate.

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:21 pm

Come to think of it, is there any website that anyone knows of that does for SW what TrekCore.com does for ST screencaps?
-Mike

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Mr. Oragahn
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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:33 pm

Cock_Knocker wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote:Snip
Wow...all that work, and I couldn't care less. But you're welcome to your interpretation of the scene, no matter how wrong it is.
Nice dodge. It's not a matter of interpretation, it's a simple request.

Please show us where are those asteroids that get vaporized. You only show us those blobs of heated matter.
Please make caps, for both films (AOTC and TESB) to defend your claims, and show us those asteroids before they get vaporized.

Otherwise, thank you for your concession.

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:46 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:

Please show us where are those asteroids that get vaporized. You only show us those blobs of heated matter.
Please make caps, for both films (AOTC and TESB) to defend your claims, and show us those asteroids before they get vaporized.

Those aren't even "blobs of heated matter", just simply bright white flashes, and not much more.
-Mike

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Post by Jedi Master Spock » Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:06 pm

Cock_Knocker wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote:And of course, on Poe's WMD page, in that chapter about asteroids and A-holes (please notice the irony),
That's just the height of good manners, eh?
Now that you mention it, that does look like a very subtle dig, and it went right by without my noticing.

He's either talking about the irony by accusing you of pulling asteroids out of your "A-hole" (i.e., "nothing" in common idiom), or subtly suggesting that you are an "A-hole." While I appreciate the suggestion, I suspect that if I tried to come down hard on people for as little as subtle innuendo with an uncertain subject, that would get problematic pretty quickly. (E.g., both you and 2046 would probably have gotten your first temp bans by now.)

If you're interested in discussing this further, start up a thread over in Technical Discussions and we can set about clarifying what we feel does and does not constitute "rude."

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:55 pm

I checked my DVD copy of TESB last night, and I think I know why some people back then might have made a mistake in thinking there were vaporized asteroids. It seems that in the Avenger/Falcon chase scene, the flack bursts do have a "red blob" component to them, unlike the earlier ANH TL flack bursts, which were just simple white flashes. The red blobs continue to appear in the TL flack bursts well after both ships have been stated to have left the asteroid field. So this phenomena of red blobs may not be melted material, but some weird effect of the Type-II ISD TL batteries.

In any case, there are no asteroids being hit and "vaporized" in the disputed scenes.
-Mike

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Mr. Oragahn
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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed May 02, 2007 5:00 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:I checked my DVD copy of TESB last night, and I think I know why some people back then might have made a mistake in thinking there were vaporized asteroids. It seems that in the Avenger/Falcon chase scene, the flack bursts do have a "red blob" component to them, unlike the earlier ANH TL flack bursts, which were just simple white flashes. The red blobs continue to appear in the TL flack bursts well after both ships have been stated to have left the asteroid field. So this phenomena of red blobs may not be melted material, but some weird effect of the Type-II ISD TL batteries.

In any case, there are no asteroids being hit and "vaporized" in the disputed scenes.
-Mike
There is clearly no excuse. Even on the first verion of the films, it was clear that where there was an explosion, there was no asteroid beforehand.

Their claims are literally absurd, and their refusal to even admit it years later, their refusal to update, alter or erase certain portions of those pages is a perfect demonstration of their remarkable dishonest bias and faith in their beliefs... which makes me giggle when you see how they often like to portray themselves as absolutely tarmac kissing down to earth scientific nutcases, and yet, they "see" things and they believe in them, just like in many other things.

Now, this is not surprising. That same poor logic made a come back for the explosions in AOTC, and Poe kept swinging the same claims about asteroids being vaporized by Slave I's guns.
The same powerful guns which have to cope with "gigatons of recoil" I guess!

That said, since I noticed the links I had didn't work anymore, I updated my post, and put direct links to the pictures from a personna account.

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Post by Praeothmin » Thu May 03, 2007 1:25 am

What I find interesting is that, as far as the Falcon's size is concerned, they will use 40 meters for length when the only image supporting this is when the Falcon latches on to the ISD in ESB.

All of the other SFX shots of the Flacon, when next to humanoids, point to a maximum length of around 26 meters.
Look at all the shots in ANH, or in RotJ.

In fact, since the majority of the shots show the Falcon to be no more than 26 meters long, that would mean that we need to reduce the size of an ISD accordingly... :)

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Fri May 11, 2007 1:24 am

The problem I have is not necessarily that Brian Young mentioned a 40 meter Falcon or that the flak bursts were scaled to the Falcon, it's that he automatically chose to go with the upper limit scaling of the Falcon, not a medium or even the smallest scaling. His arbitrary 20 meter scaling that he initially used for the calculations has little to back it up other than the questionable use of distorted views of TL bolt lengths from different scenes in TESB, as well as the asteroid "vaping" scene itself.
-Mike

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