Starfleet Jedi

"Attack Of The 3 Million Clones"

History of the whole Karen Traviss affair, and critics she labels "Talifans"

This is going too far, either way.

Now, that's a point I couldn't clear up, that apparently the 3 million clones applies to the ressources regarding the end of the war.
Duh.
Say, at the very beginning, it would have made lots of sense, considering the speed at which the clones were sprouted out of the kaminoan factories, but these numbers were called to grow.
But it doesn't float well when you think about a war that's reached its peak over a whole galaxy.

Though I condemn the bile and obnoxious behaviour displayed by you and your friends, Wayne, it's also very clear to me that those numbers do not make any sense.

Now, that said, feel free to join the purists. ;)

Mr. Oragahn wrote:Though I condemn the bile and obnoxious behaviour displayed by you and your friends, Wayne, it's also very clear to me that those numbers do not make any sense.

Now, that said, feel free to join the purists. ;)

With the way these people have shit on the EU lately, I just might.

Cock_Knocker wrote:With the way these people have shit on the EU lately, I just might.

Outside of the ICSs, since when were you ever a fan of the EU?

To your credit, it's written with less of the rabid vitriol characterizing the earlier version, written as it was "in the moment".

Of course, much as occurred with the worst attacks on Traviss, that one's been deleted so I don't have a firm basis of comparison.

GStone wrote:Outside of the ICSs, since when were you ever a fan of the EU?

The Han Solo novels by Daley have always been my favorite. And even though there's alot of idiotic crap in the X-wing novels, they're still a fun read. I like "I, Jedi" as a summary of the Jedi Academy trilogy a hell of a lot better than KJA's crap. "Tatooine Ghost", Laybyrinth Of Evil", and "Revenge Of The Sith" too.

2046 wrote:To your credit, it's written with less of the rabid vitriol characterizing the earlier version, written as it was "in the moment".

Of course, much as occurred with the worst attacks on Traviss, that one's been deleted so I don't have a firm basis of comparison.

All of the vitriol that has to do with Traviss can be found in the SD.net links, like "The Grand Army Retconned", etc. But there was a concious effort to make this version more palatable to various websites where it would be posted. I'm also updating the Dark Moose blog response about "Talifan!" with this in mind as well.

Frankly to hell with Travis, after she said we should be garoted she deserves the worst that can be thrown at her. Other EU authors have endured critcism and never lashed out. Notably Dr. Saxton has been the but of rather vicious attacks and has never said "boo" about it.

03-04-07: Added two new chapters: "CLOAK OF DECEPTION" and "LABYRINTH OF EVIL".

From Master of Ossus, from the "Cloak of Deception" part:

As for going with hard data, you've also ignored statements from the ICS--the most objective and definitive source of numbers in the SW universe--apparently because you don't like them.

(emphasis mine)
That's a good one... :)

But, in all honasty, although we haven't seen a lot of numbers onscreen, I do agree that only 3 million Clones is very little for a war that probably encompasses more than half the SW galaxy.

3 Billions for the beginning of the War, I would have accepted, but only 3 millions?
It's hard to accept...

3 million might seem low, but do we know the size of the galaxy she's working with? In the SWG size thread, there's EU evidence for it being over 100,000 to as small as about a 1,000 LYs across.

3 million might seem low, but do we know the size of the galaxy she's working with? In the SWG size thread, there's EU evidence for it being over 100,000 to as small as about a 1,000 LYs across.

Yes, but the US currently have over 170 000 troups right now in Iraq, and that the Clone Army was created to fight of the Separatists' Army, comprising over 10 000 systems.
It's like the US sending 1 soldier to fight in Iraq, against the one Iraqi insurgent send to defeat him.
That's ridiculou, and totally illogical.

But, this is the EU. Troopers have awesome armor and weapons, vessels that fly shitloads fast (extrement slingshooted miles away!)!

Seriously, aside from the apparently better equipped soldiers, we saw only small scale engagements in the movies. They seemed just slightly more than skirmish level fights. In ep 3, we keep seeing 1 jedi with a handful of troopers. The larger engagments seemed more focused on the larger concetrations of droids, but that wasn't always the case. When they went after Greivous, it seemed like they were dog piling everyone in, but even then, it didn't seem that much more than what was used at Geonosis.

As ridiculous as it sounds, the grand army of the republic has never seemed that massive, even when using dedicated cloners. They best we ever knew they could do was make an adult clone in about 10 years. Yoda went to Kamino to get what clones they had to take to geonosis. It wasn't much.

In that case, every war movie shown up to date is utterly wrong, because we are never shown major engagements with multi-thousand troups movements, only minor engagements or commando type missions.
Are we supposed to believe that even WWII historical depictions are wrong, or just that they simply felt that they didn't need to show the entire Force present to convey the importance of the battles.

We are told in the scrolling at the beginning that this is a war. But we are only shown the important engagements, or, in the case of how Order 66 is carried out, a few of the Jedi that got killed to show us what was happening everywhere.
We are told in cannon that there are around 10 000 Jedi before the Clone Wars, yet even if we only saw a handful die at the hands of the Clones, we are also told in cannon that all of them (save for a few exceptions) have been killed by the purges.
Since we only saw a few of them get killed, are you going to argue then that there were never 10 000 Jedi, only a few hundred at most?

No matter how you look at it, for a Galactic engagement involving many thousands of system, 3 million clones is a ridiculous number.

Stower agrees in "Shatterpoint" that there were 1200000 clones in Grand army. Note:
1. 2 brigades conquer 3 Utapaus
2. mostlyt's NOT insurgent war, but liberating planets from Separatists. In Iraq, USA only needed 40000 soldiers in destroying iraqi military.

Praeothmin wrote:In that case, every war movie shown up to date is utterly wrong, because we are never shown major engagements with multi-thousand troups movements, only minor engagements or commando type missions.

War movies are intended to be entertainment. The Wars movies are more in line with visual, historical documents.

Are we supposed to believe that even WWII historical depictions are wrong, or just that they simply felt that they didn't need to show the entire Force present to convey the importance of the battles.

As long as we keep in mind that it's a graphical representation and not taking it as literal fact. :-P

We are told in the scrolling at the beginning that this is a war. But we are only shown the important engagements, or, in the case of how Order 66 is carried out, a few of the Jedi that got killed to show us what was happening everywhere.

Yep.

We are told in cannon that there are around 10 000 Jedi before the Clone Wars, yet even if we only saw a handful die at the hands of the Clones, we are also told in cannon that all of them (save for a few exceptions) have been killed by the purges.

Okay.

Since we only saw a few of them get killed, are you going to argue then that there were never 10 000 Jedi, only a few hundred at most?

No. By the by, where was the 10,000 figure? I don't remember.

No matter how you look at it, for a Galactic engagement involving many thousands of system, 3 million clones is a ridiculous number.

Even if we assumed that there was more than one facility on Kamino that was doing the cloning and 200,000 units doesn't mean 200,000 troops, the number of troops at Kamino wasn't millions upon millions upon millions.

Just one of those gunships that picked up the jedi was capable of taking down lots of droids and core ships. With the air superiority, they were kicking ass. Also, look at Kasshyyaakakakak or however the wookie planet is spelled. It wasn't entirely clonetroopers. Wookies were helping, too. Like with Iraq, the republic could have gotten aid from the armies of the planets loyal to them. The droid army focused more on ground troops than flying droids, though we saw a few of them.

It isn't totally necessary that you need a large presence on recently captured worlds. As you spend time at one planet killing most of the population fighting against you, you can use the threat that you can have more people come back very fast and kill any new rebelling people. It's like 1 person with a handgun keeping 75 people back. None of them wants to get shot, even though there's not way he could kill them all.