Federation vs Empire Am I reading this right?

[Lucky]

I've been keeping track of this thread http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=202912 at SpaceBattle.com, and I'm not sure I'm understanding Leo1's argument. It looks like Leo1 is arguing that Star Trek ships are manually piloted, but that would mean Star Trek pilots have super-human reaction times. This seems rather out of character for Leo1 since it would mean the T.I.E. would have no chance of matching the Federation pilots.

[Mr. Oragahn]

They can't be totally manually piloted. It's totally impossible with the touchpads they have: there isn't even a joypad of some sorts. Most of the moves must be preprogrammed. What could pass for the maneuvering of lumbering ships simply can't in Star Trek.

[Mike DiCenso]

The only thing we seen even remotely like what he's suggesting is in ST:Insurrection, where Riker deploys that goofy joystick to fly the E-E at the Son'a ship. All other piloting is either the ship running itself, or someone pushing a button or two on a keypad to set off a series of pre-programmed maneuvers, like "Pattern delta one", or "Kirk-Epsilon".

Another clear-cut example of the ship being able fly itself is in TNG's "Booby Trap" where Geordi and Picard discuss whether or not to turn over piloting of the ship to the computer to escape the asteroid field with the energy-draining trap, or fly out of it manually. Picard obviously opts for the latter course, since the computer lacks the advantage of Human intuition and desire to survive.
-Mike

[Jedi Master Spock]

May I assume that the platinum standard Trek STL small craft maneuverability event in "The First Duty" has been blithely ignored or not even brought up?

We have some hard numbers associated with that one as well as images.

[mojo]

personally i loved how in the first ep of tng, picard makes such a huge deal of riker being the greatest pilot ever. everybody makes like the 'surprised gasp' noise when picard says he wants riker to take care of putting the two parts of the ship back together 'manually', and then that turns out to entail riker saying like three things. it literally almost boils down to riker saying 'ok, now push the 'ship back together' button.' he doesn't even push the buttons himself!
GOD WHAT A PILOT
rogue squadron has nothing on this guy!

[Lucky]

May I assume that the platinum standard Trek STL small craft maneuverability event in "The First Duty" has been blithely ignored or not even brought up?

We have some hard numbers associated with that one as well as images.

There's also Titan's turn, but that's not on screen.

[Mike DiCenso]

Yeah, but it required some piloting skill, because both Jellico and Geordi talk about it being done at .7 c.
-Mike

[Lucky]

Yeah, but it required some piloting skill, because both Jellico and Geordi talk about it being done at .7 c.
-Mike

Titan's turn is actually implied to be relatively easy to do going by what both Jellico and Laforge say about. Jellico would not have just assumed Laforge had been able to perform the maneuver if it wasn't something most shuttle pilots could do.


JELLICO: Been awhile since I flew one of these. You're a pilot yourself, aren't you Geordi?
LAFORGE: Yes, sir.
JELLICO: I began my career as a shuttle pilot, on the Jovian run. Jupiter to Saturn and back once a day, every day.
LAFORGE: Is that right? I was on that run myself for a while.
JELLICO: Then you must've done Titan's Turn.
LAFORGE: Oh, yeah. You set a course directly for Titan, hold it until you're just brushing the atmosphere, throw the helm hard over and whip around the moon at point seven c.
JELLICO: And pray like hell nobody saw you.
LAFORGE: You know, this trip into the nebula's going to need someone who can do Titan's Turn in their sleep. These mines need to be laid within two kilometres of the Cardassian ships. But the particle flux from the nebula will blind all the sensors except for this proximity detector. You're going to need one heck of a pilot to pull that off.
JELLICO: Is that you?
LAFORGE: I could do it, but truthfully, the man you want is Commander Riker. He's the best there is.

Reaching .7c wouldn't be that hard given a ship built in a cave from a box of scraps(the Phoenix) was able to accelerate at 933 km/s(low end) if my math is right.

[Praeothmin]

Titan's turn is actually implied to be relatively easy to do going by what both Jellico and Laforge say about.

That's not the way I read it...

You're a pilot yourself, aren't you Geordi?

Meaning not all starfleet personnel are pilots...

JELLICO: I began my career as a shuttle pilot, on the Jovian run. Jupiter to Saturn and back once a day, every day.
LAFORGE: Is that right? I was on that run myself for a while.
JELLICO: Then you must've done Titan's Turn.
LAFORGE: Oh, yeah. You set a course directly for Titan, hold it until you're just brushing the atmosphere, throw the helm hard over and whip around the moon at point seven c.
JELLICO: And pray like hell nobody saw you.

Yeah, a maneuver so easy, when you do it, you pray no one saw you do it, because... Well, because... It's too easy?

LAFORGE: You know, this trip into the nebula's going to need someone who can do Titan's Turn in their sleep. These mines need to be laid within two kilometres of the Cardassian ships. But the particle flux from the nebula will blind all the sensors except for this proximity detector. You're going to need one heck of a pilot to pull that off.

Again, nothing here indicates Titan' turn as being easy, or as something anybody can do...

[Admiral Breetai]

personally i loved how in the first ep of tng, picard makes such a huge deal of riker being the greatest pilot ever. everybody makes like the 'surprised gasp' noise when picard says he wants riker to take care of putting the two parts of the ship back together 'manually', and then that turns out to entail riker saying like three things. it literally almost boils down to riker saying 'ok, now push the 'ship back together' button.' he doesn't even push the buttons himself!
GOD WHAT A PILOT
rogue squadron has nothing on this guy!

that was hilarious but Willy does Acquit himself in insurrection as stupid as the movie was he pilots a huge ass sovereign on manual (for some unknown reason) at pretty high speeds and blows up those ships with his gas trail

that was okay..I mean Riker has a thing about getting the enterprise blown to hell of course

[Mr. Oragahn]

He was a fine pilot, before he grew that beard.

[Jedi Master Spock]

Am I reading this right, that the Saxtonite crowd that always crows about bridge officers being incompetent and making stupid decisions is relying on Riker making a superior choice of control system under pressure on the basis of his expertise?

[mojo]

wh-what?

are you talking about the jibberjabber between breetai and i? i was just pointing out that it was laughable that that was how he chose to show us his awesome piloting skills, by having someone else press three buttons. please tell me you're talking about something else, because while i generally try not to directly contradict you, that was fucking stupid.

[Jedi Master Spock]

wh-what?

are you talking about the jibberjabber between breetai and i? i was just pointing out that it was laughable that that was how he chose to show us his awesome piloting skills, by having someone else press three buttons. please tell me you're talking about something else, because while i generally try not to directly contradict you, that was fucking stupid.

Unless you two are in fact "kyosanim" and "Leo1," which would present a couple surprises to me, that wasn't what I was talking about.

[mojo]

thank christ for that.