OK, sorry for orientating the LMAO thread's part about 40K firepower here, but it's a long post I'm dropping here.
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The atom may be tired of posting his
list, but has he really realized that the evidence he keeps posting is not working so well?
Let's get a look at his post, without any comments of mine first.
the atom wrote:
“The Thousand Sons warships Alexandretta and Phosis T’Kar assumed geostationary orbit one hundred kilometres above the Fang and prepared their payloads for dispersal. The two ships had minimal crew – fewer than two thousand each – and virtually no void-war armaments. They’d been shielded from the battle by a dozen frigates and kept away from harm by ships more suited to close combat. In form, they resembled huge cylinders on a vertical axis wedged through the clinging superstructure of a conventional warship. Everything on board the two ships was designed to feed those cylinders, to keep them supplied with huge amounts of promethium and heavy plasma-derivatives they needed to operate. The curved muzzles were aimed planetwards, ready to unload the energies already cradling within their polished walls. Aphael called them planet-scourers. They were capable of levelling cities and razing continents Pgs.98
“Even though the Imperium had arms that could devastate continents, its victory here would once again be gained by its exhausted soldiers grappling toe to toe with its foes.”
Pg.166 Imperial Glory
“It would be possible to maufacture a missile of any size: from a weapon a litle larger than a normal launcher shell, to one capable of wiping out a city, province or continent.” Pg.99 (PDF version) Rogue trader
Running almost the complete length of the battleship, the starboard and port batteries were capable of unleashing an incredible amount of f repower, easily enough to cripple even the largest warship with a single barrage, or lay waste to entire continents if she entered the upper atmosphere of a rebellious planet. Indeed, the resistance of entire planets had crumpled merely at her appearance in their sub-system, fearful of the wrath that she could unleash.”
Pg.14 Dark Disciple
And of course we could always take this next one literally if we felt so inclined (though I err on the side of conservatism here)
“Every weapon in the warship’s arsenal was prepared and oriented down at the surface – torpedo arrays filled with warshots that could atomise whole continents, energy cannons capable of boiling off oceans, kinetic killers that could behead mountains through the brute force of their impacts.”
- Nemesis, pg. 375
“A bombardment had begun, and the people of Dagonet’s capital feared it was the end of the world.
They knew so litle of the reality of things. High above in orbit, it was only the warship Thanato that fired on the city, and even then it was not with the vessel’s most powerful cannons. The people did not know that a fleet of craft were poised in silence around their sister ship, watchful and waiting. Had all the vessels of the Warmaster’s flotilla unleashed their killpower, then indeed those fears would have come true; the planet’s crust cracked, the continents sliced open. Perhaps those things would happen, soon enough – but for now it was sufficient for the Thanato to hurl inert kinetic kill-rods down through the atmosphere, the sky-spliting shriek of their passage climaxed by a lowing thunder as the warshots obliterated power stations, military compounds and the vast mansion-houses of the noble clans. From the ground it seemed like wanton destruction; from orbit, it was a shrewd and surgical pattern of attack.”
- Nemesis, pgs. 417-418
Below the world burned too. The fleet’s bombardment had torched Prospero, and ignited the atmosphere. Spiral patterns of soot and particulated debris thousands of leagues across cycled like hurricanes. Giant columns of plasma energy had roasted all vegetation and wildlife, and turned the seas into scalding banks of steam and toxic gas. Vast las bombardments from the heavy batteries had evaporated river deltas and flash-thawed ice-caps. Kinetic munitions and gravity bombs had fallen like Helwinter hail, and planted new forests of bright liquid flame that sprouted and grew, spread and died back, all in a few minutes. Shoals of targeted missiles, silver-swift as midsummer fish running from a catchers net, delivered warheads that blasted the soil into the sky and thickened the air into poisonous soup. Magma bombs and atomics, the godhammers, had altered the geography itself. Mountains had been levelled , plains split, valleys thrown up into new hills of rubble and spoil. Prospero’s crust had fractured. We saw the throbbing, glowing tracks of its mortal wounds, brand new canyons of fire that split entire continents. This was the grand alchemy of war. Heat and light, and energy and fission that transformed water into steam, rock into dust, sand into glass, bone into gas. Swirling mushroom clouds, as tall as our Aett on Fenris, punctuated the horizon we rushed towards.”-Prospero Burns
From the window of the chapel, through the panes of stained glass, he watched Dynikas V turning away from him, as if it were afraid to show its face. Nuclear firestorms the size of continents crossed the surface, shock-rings from multiple detonations boring down into the mantle and bedrock of the ocean world. The seas were already boiling into void as the atmosphere dissipated, the orbiting gunskulls consumed by the same fires. Within a day, perhaps less, the fifth planet would be litle more than a scorched ember, and everything on it just a memory. The taint of Chaos and of the alien had been scoured clean.
Black Tide Pg.158
“Like the hand of a god it reared its fingers across themoon’s horizon. Four thousand metres away, thecityscapes of twinkling lance batteries, torpedo banksand gun turrets welcomed them with a taut, breathlesstension. Although the broadsides were capable of dismantlingcontinents, they were far too ponderous to harm the Harvester . Cloaked by refraction, the dark eldar shippierced the Cauldron Born ’s scans, registering asnothing more than tiny space debris.”
Pg.163 Blood Gorgons
“To ensure no trace of the Daemon and its cult remained, Ludoldus ordered the planet bombarded from orbit until the massive forces unleashed tore the planet’s crust apart and buried it beneath an ocean of seething magma.”Pg.22 Black Templars Codex
The first was from the office of the High Admiral stating that all battleships capable of planetary bombardment were fully engaged and that none could be spared to make a round-trip to Voor, even just to bomb a small part of it. The second one was from the office of the Imperial Governor of Voor, who had been copied in on the first communiqué which included a lengthy study demonstrating that any such bombardment on the scale necessary would cause such ecological damage to the planet as to force the colony to be abandoned. It included a short personal note from the governor herself, somewhat wryly observing that they had only begun colonising the world a century ago and that she had wondered how long it would take the Imperium to want to start blowing pieces of it up.
Pgs.37-38 Imperial Glory
“The last of the Dirge Raiders spiralled down into the atmosphere of Rahe’s Paradise, flames pouring from its engine vents and
armoured plates free falling from its hull. Beneath its fall, the planet’s surface was vaguely visible beneath the clouds of toxic
smoke and viral contagions that roiled around in the atmosphere. The Exterminatus arrays had caused all of the volcanoes around
the equator to erupt at once, spilling the planet’s core out onto its surface and effectively turning the entire world inside out. For
good measure, the epic bombardment had continued, throwing viral and bacterial agents down into the mix to ensure that nothing
could survive, even if it could swim in molten rock and breath sulphur. In a matter of minutes, the atmosphere had been
completely eaten away and then, in less than an hour, the planet’s structural integrity collapsed and it simply fell apart, scattering
itself into asteroids and meteorites.Pg.203 Dawn of War Omnibus
(Thanks Reaper)
Then of course there's this bit of hilarity which, if you want to play at the high numbers game, we can always take literally :
The Aggressor Libertus, a significant ship in its own right, began firing as it turned, loosing as much as it could at the oncoming [TORMAGEDDON MONSTRUM REX]. The daemon ship's shields held firm. The Libertus's barrage, enough to strip a hive down to the mantle, spattered off the voidshields like firecrackers. - Salvation's Reach, pgs. 172-173
(Orsai found this bit)
“The majestic form of the Vae Victus slowly angled its massive bulk towards the surface of Pavonis, powerful energies building in her forward linear accelerators. Few men knew the awesome power of destruction the captain of a starship possessed; the power to level cities and crack continents.”-Nightbringer, p.161
"Blotting out a patch of that light was a planetoid about the size of Jupiter's small inner moon, Io."
....
"A battleship, three cruisers and any number of improvised spacecraft had formed a staggered crescent around one half of the ancient planetoid and were sending massed laser fire slicing into its surface. Nothing else would have sufficed for the task; thermonuclear bombardment would no more than have dented the blacked-out landscape. Only high-density lasers carried enough energy to dig through the planetary crust and penetrate the mantle beneath, carving up the litle world as if it were a ripe melon."
....
"It was at that moment that Magron noticed something happening on the planetoid below. A glow was emanating from it, becoming brighter and brighter. Despite the raging space battle ranging over the planetoid, the Imperial task force had managed to sustain the laser barrage. Now it was working, and what was more, it was working better than its directors had planned. The beams had scythed through the planet, had cut aside the crust and had delved deep into the mantle in search of the deep keeps."Pgs.51-53 Eye of Terror
(Thanks again to Reaper)
"Unchecked the death cultists gained access to part of the defence missile silo network, and in a suicidal rage unleashed a rain of atomic and plasma warheads which shattered its hive cities and succeeded in disrupting the planet's orbit for several years. The reuslting permanent winter, radioactive fallout and tectonic upheavals annihilated all life on Cygnax"-Imperial Armour: Badab War
Even more so than torpedoes, Nova Cannon ammunition is hideously expensive, and requires purchase. In addition, the weapons fire slowly and have a fixed minimum range (too close and they could easily destroy their own ship). However, when one has enough firepower to scour the face of a planet, one tends to see such concerns as trivial.
Shortly afterwards, a flotilla of Naval and Inquisition vessels had joined the Ravenous Spirit in orbit and had proceeded to launch an unrelenting barrage of lance strikes, mass drivers and cyclone torpedoes, reducing the once green world to a primeval, molten state.Dawn of War, page 98
(Credit for those go to Connor)
“Most cruisers carry huge torpedoes as well, loaded with multiple warheads charged with volatile plasma bombs, carrying the power to unleash the energy of a small star on the enemy. It makes my humble laspistol look like a spit in an ocean. More like a hundred oceans, actually.” 13th Legion, p.135
Nova Cannons are a classification of exceptionally powerful weaponry that can only be mounted upon capital ships. Mounted below the heavily armoured prows of Imperial Navy cruisers and battleships, Nova Cannons have few equals in terms of thier range or destructive power. While variation exists, a typical Nova Cannon consists of an array of potent gravimetric impellers designed to accelerate a projectile to a fraction of the speed of light. These projectiles vary more than the nature of the cannons themselves, ranging from sophisticated plasma warheads which burn with the ferocity of a small star for a fraction of a second, to implosive devices which exert destructive gravitational forces upon all those caught within several thousand kilometres of the detonation. In any case, a well-used Nova Cannon is a terrifying thing to face, as much a psychological tool as a weapon." - Rogue Trader: Battlefleet Koronus, Pg. 15 - The Weapons of War: Nova Cannons
And finally we have the good ol'
Caves of Ice calcs.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
So here we go.
“The Thousand Sons warships Alexandretta and Phosis T’Kar assumed geostationary orbit one hundred kilometres above the Fang and prepared their payloads for dispersal. The two ships had minimal crew – fewer than two thousand each – and virtually no void-war armaments. They’d been shielded from the battle by a dozen frigates and kept away from harm by ships more suited to close combat. In form, they resembled huge cylinders on a vertical axis wedged through the clinging superstructure of a conventional warship. Everything on board the two ships was designed to feed those cylinders, to keep them supplied with huge amounts of promethium and heavy plasma-derivatives they needed to operate. The curved muzzles were aimed planetwards, ready to unload the energies already cradling within their polished walls. Aphael called them planet-scourers. They were capable of levelling cities and razing continents.
Pgs.98
No time given.
“Even though the Imperium had arms that could devastate continents, its victory here would once again be gained by its exhausted soldiers grappling toe to toe with its foes.”
Pg.166 Imperial Glory
Could work as a positive.
If the arms could only blast cities, it would be pointed out, and if the description was a reference to the total amount of firepower of a given duration, then we could consider that they could devastate a planet.
So we got one continent wrecking description here.
High gigaton firepower at least.
Of course, considering how quotes which seemed to solid in their defense of insane firepower proved not to be so shut-the-debate deals (see Nemesis as below for just one example), we'd be happy to see if that book is really that consistent or if we're not dealing with some hyperbole.
“It would be possible to maufacture a missile of any size: from a weapon a litle larger than a normal launcher shell, to one capable of wiping out a city, province or continent.”
Pg.99 (PDF version) Rogue trader
Stating the obvious. It means that they have built such monstrosities which can actually damage continents.
No doubt that building a heavy cargo sized missile will clearly allow for a huge amount of nuclear material to be packed inside and properly detonated.
Let's just note that the latest edition of Rogue Trader gives warships' heavy weapons a firepower on the
terawatt/joule range in fact.
Running almost the complete length of the battleship, the starboard and port batteries were capable of unleashing an incredible amount of firepower, easily enough to cripple even the largest warship with a single barrage, or lay waste to entire continents if she entered the upper atmosphere of a rebellious planet. Indeed, the resistance of entire planets had crumpled merely at her appearance in their sub-system, fearful of the wrath that she could unleash.”
Pg.14 Dark Disciple
Not enough. Entering the upper atmosphere means that the ship will have a limited line of sight which simply prevents the ship from having an arc of fire greater than what could cover a continent anyway.
No time or magnitude of destruction given either.
“Every weapon in the warship’s arsenal was prepared and oriented down at the surface – torpedo arrays filled with warshots that could atomise whole continents, energy cannons capable of boiling off oceans, kinetic killers that could behead mountains through the brute force of their impacts.”
- Nemesis, pg. 375
“A bombardment had begun, and the people of Dagonet’s capital feared it was the end of the world.
They knew so litle of the reality of things. High above in orbit, it was only the warship Thanato that fired on the city, and even then it was not with the vessel’s most powerful cannons. The people did not know that a fleet of craft were poised in silence around their sister ship, watchful and waiting. Had all the vessels of the Warmaster’s flotilla unleashed their killpower, then indeed those fears would have come true; the planet’s crust cracked, the continents sliced open. Perhaps those things would happen, soon enough – but for now it was sufficient for the Thanato to hurl inert kinetic kill-rods down through the atmosphere, the sky-spliting shriek of their passage climaxed by a lowing thunder as the warshots obliterated power stations, military compounds and the vast mansion-houses of the noble clans. From the ground it seemed like wanton destruction; from orbit, it was a shrewd and surgical pattern of attack.”
- Nemesis, pgs. 417-418
Nemesis is a recent source which I noted really went for the big numbers. However, to the uninformed reader, this will achieve the effect craved by rabid hammies.
The truth actually is
very different.
I urge you to read my post.
Below the world burned too. The fleet’s bombardment had torched Prospero, and ignited the atmosphere. Spiral patterns of soot and particulated debris thousands of leagues across cycled like hurricanes. Giant columns of plasma energy had roasted all vegetation and wildlife, and turned the seas into scalding banks of steam and toxic gas. Vast las bombardments from the heavy batteries had evaporated river deltas and flash-thawed ice-caps. Kinetic munitions and gravity bombs had fallen like Helwinter hail, and planted new forests of bright liquid flame that sprouted and grew, spread and died back, all in a few minutes. Shoals of targeted missiles, silver-swift as midsummer fish running from a catchers net, delivered warheads that blasted the soil into the sky and thickened the air into poisonous soup. Magma bombs and atomics, the godhammers, had altered the geography itself. Mountains had been levelled , plains split, valleys thrown up into new hills of rubble and spoil. Prospero’s crust had fractured. We saw the throbbing, glowing tracks of its mortal wounds, brand new canyons of fire that split entire continents. This was the grand alchemy of war. Heat and light, and energy and fission that transformed water into steam, rock into dust, sand into glass, bone into gas. Swirling mushroom clouds, as tall as our Aett on Fenris, punctuated the horizon we rushed towards.”
-Prospero Burns
See
this post.
From the window of the chapel, through the panes of stained glass, he watched Dynikas V turning away from him, as if it were afraid to show its face. Nuclear firestorms the size of continents crossed the surface, shock-rings from multiple detonations boring down into the mantle and bedrock of the ocean world. The seas were already boiling into void as the atmosphere dissipated, the orbiting gunskulls consumed by the same fires. Within a day, perhaps less, the fifth planet would be litle more than a scorched ember, and everything on it just a memory. The taint of Chaos and of the alien had been scoured clean.
Black Tide Pg.158
For that one, see
here.
“Like the hand of a god it reared its fingers across the moon’s horizon. Four thousand metres away, the cityscapes of twinkling lance batteries, torpedo banks and gun turrets welcomed them with a taut, breathless tension. Although the broadsides were capable of dismantling continents, they were far too ponderous to harm the Harvester. Cloaked by refraction, the dark eldar ship pierced the Cauldron Born’s scans, registering as nothing more than tiny space debris.”
Pg.163 Blood Gorgons
Let's say that's another one for hyper yields.
“To ensure no trace of the Daemon and its cult remained, Ludoldus ordered the planet bombarded from orbit until the massive forces unleashed tore the planet’s crust apart and buried it beneath an ocean of seething magma.”
Pg.22 Black Templars Codex
Any reason to believe he was literal?
Did this even happen?
... Oh wait. First, it's on page 20 in the latest editions, not 22. Secondly, I guess it would actually help to mention what is present on page 19 -- namely that the planet in question, Peleregon IV, is described as "a mountainous world of shifting tectonics and rivers of lava."
Black Templars, Inquisitor Ludoldus' men and a bunch of chicks from the Bloody Rose tracked and destroyed the assassin-cult located on the planet. The cult had built "a great temple carved within the heart of a continent-spanning volcano." The "fiery mountain stronghold".
The first was from the office of the High Admiral stating that all battleships capable of planetary bombardment were fully engaged and that none could be spared to make a round-trip to Voor, even just to bomb a small part of it. The second one was from the office of the Imperial Governor of Voor, who had been copied in on the first communiqué which included a lengthy study demonstrating that any such bombardment on the scale necessary would cause such ecological damage to the planet as to force the colony to be abandoned. It included a short personal note from the governor herself, somewhat wryly observing that they had only begun colonising the world a century ago and that she had wondered how long it would take the Imperium to want to start blowing pieces of it up.
Pgs.37-38 Imperial Glory
Vague, useless.
“The last of the Dirge Raiders spiralled down into the atmosphere of Rahe’s Paradise, flames pouring from its engine vents and
armoured plates free falling from its hull. Beneath its fall, the planet’s surface was vaguely visible beneath the clouds of toxic
smoke and viral contagions that roiled around in the atmosphere. The Exterminatus arrays had caused all of the volcanoes around
the equator to erupt at once, spilling the planet’s core out onto its surface and effectively turning the entire world inside out. For
good measure, the epic bombardment had continued, throwing viral and bacterial agents down into the mix to ensure that nothing
could survive, even if it could swim in molten rock and breath sulphur. In a matter of minutes, the atmosphere had been
completely eaten away and then, in less than an hour, the planet’s structural integrity collapsed and it simply fell apart, scattering
itself into asteroids and meteorites.
Pg.203 Dawn of War Omnibus
(Thanks Reaper)
Exterminatus.
Technobabble weapons involved.
That's not conventional firepower.
Then of course there's this bit of hilarity which, if you want to play at the high numbers game, we can always take literally :
The Aggressor Libertus, a significant ship in its own right, began firing as it turned, loosing as much as it could at the oncoming [TORMAGEDDON MONSTRUM REX]. The daemon ship's shields held firm. The Libertus's barrage, enough to strip a hive down to the mantle, spattered off the voidshields like firecrackers.
- Salvation's Reach, pgs. 172-173
(Orsai found this bit)
More information would be necessary to tell us how long this barrage lasted.
You could get several megatons per shot to gigatons.
“The majestic form of the Vae Victus slowly angled its massive bulk towards the surface of Pavonis, powerful energies building in her forward linear accelerators. Few men knew the awesome power of destruction the captain of a starship possessed; the power to level cities and crack continents.”
-Nightbringer, p.161
See
here, second half of the post. It's the same novel wherein those massive warships are considerably threatened by asteroids which, for all intents and purposes, don't seem to move particularly fast.
It goes without saying that cracking continents and leveling cities are two different things, but we're not given time either.
"Blotting out a patch of that light was a planetoid about the size of Jupiter's small inner moon, Io."
....
"A battleship, three cruisers and any number of improvised spacecraft had formed a staggered crescent around one half of the ancient planetoid and were sending massed laser fire slicing into its surface. Nothing else would have sufficed for the task; thermonuclear bombardment would no more than have dented the blacked-out landscape. Only high-density lasers carried enough energy to dig through the planetary crust and penetrate the mantle beneath, carving up the litle world as if it were a ripe melon."
....
"It was at that moment that Magron noticed something happening on the planetoid below. A glow was emanating from it, becoming brighter and brighter. Despite the raging space battle ranging over the planetoid, the Imperial task force had managed to sustain the laser barrage. Now it was working, and what was more, it was working better than its directors had planned. The beams had scythed through the planet, had cut aside the crust and had delved deep into the mantle in search of the deep keeps."
Pgs.51-53 Eye of Terror
(Thanks again to Reaper)
Focused energy beams aimed at rock, in the petawatt range, would clearly get through the crust, even if there were fifty kilometers to wade through.
The planetoid's reduced gravity would also make the removal of blasted rock easier for each next wave of petajoules poured into the target.
Notice that it still took some noticeable time.
"Unchecked the death cultists gained access to part of the defence missile silo network, and in a suicidal rage unleashed a rain of atomic and plasma warheads which shattered its hive cities and succeeded in disrupting the planet's orbit for several years. The reuslting permanent winter, radioactive fallout and tectonic upheavals annihilated all life on Cygnax"
-Imperial Armour: Badab War
Let's just say that the energies necessary to disrupt a planet's orbit are so stupidly high that any world would be reduced to drifting pebbles by weapon fire before it could happen.
So that's bullshitium.
Even more so than torpedoes, Nova Cannon ammunition is hideously expensive, and requires purchase. In addition, the weapons fire slowly and have a fixed minimum range (too close and they could easily destroy their own ship). However, when one has enough firepower to scour the face of a planet, one tends to see such concerns as trivial.
Scour the surface of a planet is damn vague again, and there is no reason to accept an extremely genetous and literal interpretation.
Shortly afterwards, a flotilla of Naval and Inquisition vessels had joined the Ravenous Spirit in orbit and had proceeded to launch an unrelenting barrage of lance strikes, mass drivers and cyclone torpedoes, reducing the once green world to a primeval, molten state.
Dawn of War, page 98
(Credit for those go to Connor)
Debunked in the following thread:
WH40K - Cyrene crust-melting from DoW novel analysis (SDN)
And if you don't want to read it, let's just point out the use of those cyclonic torpedoes.
“Most cruisers carry huge torpedoes as well, loaded with multiple warheads charged with volatile plasma bombs, carrying the power to unleash the energy of a small star on the enemy. It makes my humble laspistol look like a spit in an ocean. More like a hundred oceans, actually.”
13th Legion, p.135
Certainly a quote not without
its own problems.
Nova Cannons are a classification of exceptionally powerful weaponry that can only be mounted upon capital ships. Mounted below the heavily armoured prows of Imperial Navy cruisers and battleships, Nova Cannons have few equals in terms of thier range or destructive power. While variation exists, a typical Nova Cannon consists of an array of potent gravimetric impellers designed to accelerate a projectile to a fraction of the speed of light. These projectiles vary more than the nature of the cannons themselves, ranging from sophisticated plasma warheads which burn with the ferocity of a small star for a fraction of a second, to implosive devices which exert destructive gravitational forces upon all those caught within several thousand kilometres of the detonation. In any case, a well-used Nova Cannon is a terrifying thing to face, as much a psychological tool as a weapon."
- Rogue Trader: Battlefleet Koronus, Pg. 15 - The Weapons of War: Nova Cannons
Nova Cannon calcs can actually be all over the place. Ships can resist direct hits from the vortex variants. Others won't even have that blasting range. And there's the obvious problem of actually pushing an object that fast out of a ship already under the effect of mass lightening, and the fact that a projectile can't achieve a spherical enough blast of plasma if it's flying at near c. There's a thing such as momentum that's important, and only reducing the projectile's speed first can allow it to magically halt in space and then burst a sphere of plasma.
Killing said momentum, if the projectile is using mass lightening technology pushed to its maximum, means suddenly killing said MLT and returning the projectile's effective mass to what it naturally is.
Say again?
So to conclude, that doesn't leave us with that much evidence at all. I won't bother pointing out all the references I found which expressly go against high yields and cap the firepower in the kiloton-low megaton range, because I wouldn't appreciate being held responsible of causing aneurysms to the preachers in the opposition.
