SBC's current 40K's firepower thread

[Mr. Oragahn]

Page 3 to 5 of that macrocannon thread, seeing Mith getting ripped a new hole, lol.
It's even more embarrassing to watch considering that there's a billion times simpler argument: your capital ship weapon yields make Exterminatus arrays completely useless and under-efficient in comparison.

[Mith]

Page 3 to 5 of that macrocannon thread, seeing Mith getting ripped a new hole, lol.
It's even more embarrassing to watch considering that there's a billion times simpler argument: your capital ship weapon yields make Exterminatus arrays completely useless and under-efficient in comparison.

I was just really pointing out how silly of a divorce they have to make in order to accept teraton nova cannon launchers--but a distinct lack of nuclear display on the battlefield. Then they ran on and on and on about how I'm wrong, but they all know that there's a massive logical gap, so why is that a big deal, but I'm wrong anyways because...

You get it. I stopped when it became clear that they were just going to dogpile with rhetoric and when you get someone making half-ass claims about how you and ricrery1 were good friends and some stupid crap like that, it really isn't worth your time. Not yet.

No, I'll wait a bit longer until the series both becomes more popular and I get time to waste by tossing it to good and terrible 40k writers.


EDIT

Oh, and Atom? When you can last five minutes in a debate against me on your own name, feel free to hurl an insult my way. Until then, please drop the puffing. You really haven't earned it.

[Lucky]

I already covered some. It's more than obvious that it's not to be taken literally.
It's even possible that the example GD picked was already covered in those thread I made, but I can't tell from memory.

If you want to know, just google SFJN by looking for key words or member names and add site:http://www.starfleetjedi.net at the end.

But that means digging through multiple threads, many will be dead ends, and what you suggest has rarely worked well if at all for me for some reason.

[Mr. Oragahn]

I was just really pointing out how silly of a divorce they have to make in order to accept teraton nova cannon launchers--but a distinct lack of nuclear display on the battlefield. Then they ran on and on and on about how I'm wrong, but they all know that there's a massive logical gap, so why is that a big deal, but I'm wrong anyways because...

You get it. I stopped when it became clear that they were just going to dogpile with rhetoric and when you get someone making half-ass claims about how you and ricrery1 were good friends and some stupid crap like that, it really isn't worth your time. Not yet.

No, I'll wait a bit longer until the series both becomes more popular and I get time to waste by tossing it to good and terrible 40k writers.

Long time no see!
Why were you off so long?
You almost completely missed the SWST craze.

On topic;
My main beef against your position is that you completely handed them the gun to shoot you down.
Namely, you being correct in the capacity to scale down nuclear weapons doesn't mean they have to be automatically used. Heck, even in scenario where thousands upon thousands of space marines jump at each other's throat with huge titans in the background, the presence of clearly nuclear firepower doesn't magically decide the battle.
It's totally nonsensical, but that nonsense actually works in making any sensible argument useless when the time comes to ask why the frak don't they spam targets with nukes then? It's not like 0.1 KT nuke are gonna waste that much of the scenery vs the obvious massive gain in combat.
Yet we know that they have the tech if they want to: old fashion fission devices aren't nothing new. I think that even kiloton level landmines (!) were being developed at some point by the US after WWII.
The use of nuclear weapons is barely restricted: depleted uranium is extremely poisonous on war theaters where it's been used. It should be banned for the exact same reason nuclear weapons would --in fact, in some ways, nuclear air blasts would prove far less messy and dirty than showers of depleted uranium bullets and shells.

Really, there's one argument that no one can beat, it's the one of the Exterminatus : their retarded yields make no fucking sense in light of the big deal an Exterminatus array is. A mere broadside of macrocannons would do the job far better (Exterminatus largely scorch the surface of a world via technomagic).
A single Nova Cannon shot would ruin a planet (multiple petatons tend to do that -- yet you'd remember that they're said to be shitty weapons when it comes to planetary bombardment !!

They're just little kids still creaming their pants. There's a time when the hard reality of the idiocy of their paradigm will smack them as hard as it smacked ICSers.

[Mr. Oragahn]

I already covered some. It's more than obvious that it's not to be taken literally.
It's even possible that the example GD picked was already covered in those thread I made, but I can't tell from memory.

If you want to know, just google SFJN by looking for key words or member names and add site:http://www.starfleetjedi.net at the end.

But that means digging through multiple threads, many will be dead ends, and what you suggest has rarely worked well if at all for me for some reason.

Not if you use the search tools properly: first very specific words in the search engine, and then CTRL+F on the webpage. SFJN's own search engine highlights the words. Trust me, it works wonders, it doesn't take much time to find some relevant info, and the CTRL+F helps skimming entire threads until you find the proper posts. Generally, after having found a good enough thread (or not), you may want to check the page after and before the one you were led to, and run a word search on them as well.
Really, in like a dozen minutes, you should be able to gather a sufficient amount of references!

[Mith]

Long time no see!
Why were you off so long?

Oh, lots of reasons. I've been somewhat busy with several things, so I've been avoiding getting myself caught in debating because I tend to get distracted by it easily. I should be able to ease in back to it.

You almost completely missed the SWST craze.

The what?

And why did Mojo send me a mass pm asking to use my likeness in some sort of butthurt fanfiction about Mike?

On topic;
My main beef against your position is that you completely handed them the gun to shoot you down.

I did? I was simply trying to piss them off.:p

Okay, not really, maybe just poke a bit to make a point.

Namely, you being correct in the capacity to scale down nuclear weapons doesn't mean they have to be automatically used. Heck, even in scenario where thousands upon thousands of space marines jump at each other's throat with huge titans in the background, the presence of clearly nuclear firepower doesn't magically decide the battle.
It's totally nonsensical, but that nonsense actually works in making any sensible argument useless when the time comes to ask why the frak don't they spam targets with nukes then? It's not like 0.1 KT nuke are gonna waste that much of the scenery vs the obvious massive gain in combat.

If used correctly, especially against an enemy that likes to bunch itself together, it could save your war and win the battle. My problem isn't that they don't spam them. My problem is that they're non-existent.

Yet we know that they have the tech if they want to: old fashion fission devices aren't nothing new. I think that even kiloton level landmines (!) were being developed at some point by the US after WWII.

Easily doable though I wonder why anyone would bother.

The use of nuclear weapons is barely restricted: depleted uranium is extremely poisonous on war theaters where it's been used. It should be banned for the exact same reason nuclear weapons would --in fact, in some ways, nuclear air blasts would prove far less messy and dirty than showers of depleted uranium bullets and shells.

Well yes, it is. But it's better than your city being overrun with orks.

Really, there's one argument that no one can beat, it's the one of the Exterminatus : their retarded yields make no fucking sense in light of the big deal an Exterminatus array is. A mere broadside of macrocannons would do the job far better (Exterminatus largely scorch the surface of a world via technomagic).
A single Nova Cannon shot would ruin a planet (multiple petatons tend to do that -- yet you'd remember that they're said to be shitty weapons when it comes to planetary bombardment !!

You're right of course, but as I said, I wasn't seriously entering into a yield debate. I was making a relatively minor point on how it's kinda funny that the super duper competent Imperium with gigatons and teratons of firepower haven't seemed to of discovered the miracle of tactical nukes.

Or output. Surrounding your city with turrets that feed of a high powered fusion plant that has the yield equal to a .5 ton bomb going off every second would make the idea of an ork army laughable.

They're just little kids still creaming their pants. There's a time when the hard reality of the idiocy of their paradigm will smack them as hard as it smacked ICSers.

Yep.

[Lucky]

Not if you use the search tools properly: first very specific words in the search engine, and then CTRL+F on the webpage. SFJN's own search engine highlights the words. Trust me, it works wonders, it doesn't take much time to find some relevant info, and the CTRL+F helps skimming entire threads until you find the proper posts. Generally, after having found a good enough thread (or not), you may want to check the page after and before the one you were led to, and run a word search on them as well.
Really, in like a dozen minutes, you should be able to gather a sufficient amount of references!

Tried that, and it often fails because the word I use is a synonym of the one I'm suppose to use on accident or something.

[Lucky]

And why did Mojo send me a mass pm asking to use my likeness in some sort of butthurt fanfiction about Mike?

Because Mojo wanted to write such a fanfic using our likeness, but wanted the person's permission to use said likeness first.

[Mith]

And why did Mojo send me a mass pm asking to use my likeness in some sort of butthurt fanfiction about Mike?

Because Mojo wanted to write such a fanfic using our likeness, but wanted the person's permission to use said likeness first.

I got that part, thanks.

I mean, why did he even want to write it? What the hell was that about?

[Khas]

I think it was because Mojo had snapped due to the SWST affair, and this was his way of expressing dissatisfaction with SWST not being permabanned soon enough. Trust me, during that time, it wasn't so much as shit hitting the fan at this board, as it was the explosive diarrhea of fifty elephants going though a jet turbine.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Not if you use the search tools properly: first very specific words in the search engine, and then CTRL+F on the webpage. SFJN's own search engine highlights the words. Trust me, it works wonders, it doesn't take much time to find some relevant info, and the CTRL+F helps skimming entire threads until you find the proper posts. Generally, after having found a good enough thread (or not), you may want to check the page after and before the one you were led to, and run a word search on them as well.
Really, in like a dozen minutes, you should be able to gather a sufficient amount of references!

Tried that, and it often fails because the word I use is a synonym of the one I'm suppose to use on accident or something.

Then try to use the "" on both sides of each of the words you're looking for in order to focus the search on those words in Google for example.
There's no reason it shouldn't work from there, it works fine for me.

[General Donner]

Leman Russes are made of IRON!
The acronym for Impressive Radiation Of Neutrinos.

Brilliant, good sir. I'll have to remember that one.

You should start a thread that lists all the quotes that talk about star like power in 40K. It would be a good laugh, and help debaters.

Actually, I think we could use some kind of overall directory thread for 40k-related stuff around here. Between JMS and Oragahn, we already have a fair number of threads, and keeping track of them all can be a little difficult, as many have already gotten somewhat old. I was considering whether I should propose something like the SDN Grand 40k sticky.

Though brief breakdown threads synthesizing arguments and conclusions could also be useful. There I'd figure something in the vein of Mr. Oragahn's nova cannon thread, organized by topic: One on star-like firepower, perhaps, another on Exterminatus, etc. (Hell, we could have one on common misconceptions about the Tau, just to spite the rabid fanboys.)

[General Donner]

Oh, lots of reasons. I've been somewhat busy with several things, so I've been avoiding getting myself caught in debating because I tend to get distracted by it easily. I should be able to ease in back to it.

Welcome back!

Easily doable though I wonder why anyone would bother.

I think most of those were actually charges for demolitions work and sabotage by stay-behinds and such, more than land mines in the usual sense; you'd have wanted compact and dense packages of explosive power for those, since they couldn't keep large stores and had to move about unsupported and mostly on foot if ever deployed in a hot war.

Though then again, I seem to recall reading of some large and comparatively dirty fission mines that were designed to deny territory to the Soviets in case an invasion looked like it would penetrate Germany. Not sure whether those were actually built, though, or merely projected.

Edit -- Here ya go on those latter ones:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3 ... mines.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Peacock

[Mr. Oragahn]

Lol. Actually the Goa'uld fancied that idea. Sometimes they called it "a gift". As such, it could take the form of anything nice, like a pretty casket.
Sometimes, the mine could be mobile, like having it placed inside a cute little girl.

[Lucky]

You should start a thread that lists all the quotes that talk about star like power in 40K. It would be a good laugh, and help debaters.

Actually, I think we could use some kind of overall directory thread for 40k-related stuff around here. Between JMS and Oragahn, we already have a fair number of threads, and keeping track of them all can be a little difficult, as many have already gotten somewhat old. I was considering whether I should propose something like the SDN Grand 40k sticky.

Though brief breakdown threads synthesizing arguments and conclusions could also be useful. There I'd figure something in the vein of Mr. Oragahn's nova cannon thread, organized by topic: One on star-like firepower, perhaps, another on Exterminatus, etc. (Hell, we could have one on common misconceptions about the Tau, just to spite the rabid fanboys.)

That is kind of what I was thinking. I actually made a similar suggestion for the "Other" second on this site since it seemed like a good idea to divide politics from science topics.