SBC's current 40K's firepower thread

[Mr. Oragahn]

It had gone dormant for a while, then someone bumped it, I think it's Penguin something, and it then beast woke up, out of slumber, when Ricrery1 returned.
page 13
You may chose to read some of the former pages, in any case.
I'm still baffled by the absolute mediocrity of Connor's logic and claims.
Just a quick examples here, since I cannot resist:
:]

Maybe Mith in his infinite wisdom, since he so clearly has everything figured out, can provide an explanation of how the supposed mass lightening works, and then provide further explanation how this is supposed to apply to nova cannons, much less any other weapon.

Oh yeah, with proof. Because we wouldn't want rampant speculation to sully the thread now would we? :p

Connor considers that if the opposition cannot explain the physics behind a given piece of technology, then said piece of technology is to be ignored.
How many times have we seen bad debaters use such silly logic, really?
For some reason, he also finds anti-gravity less complicated than mass lightening (as he puts it here, while trying to rewrite what the text from Eye of Terror clearly says).

I'm still to finish reading that thread, although by a quick look at it, it seems they've been spending pages trying to ignore this clear evidence of application of MLT to most space ships.
I'll return to this later on; there are too many humourous moments awaiting, mostly because of the over-boiling hypocrisy in it; you won't be able to help but just laugh your arses off. ;)

Now, after rereading the quote from Nemesis and then the one from Prospero Burns, it dawned on me how Connor's past work (which he says to have started between 06 and 07) might clearly influence authors who, not being cautious and going for some quick cool background information, may easily be drawn towards what would really be seen as an easily reached beacon of misinformation: Connor's work at SDN on Warhammer 40000 and the all too often linked Grand Sticky 40K thread. :)
It's so easy for a writer, the kind who has no time to waste on learning a few things about physics or even getting proper information of all elements of a background relevant to his future book (BL writers can even ignore what annoys them), failing to get a basic understanding about the magnitudes of the effects they have in mind or decide to describe, yet to let Google drive you to Connor's works where his senseless and dogmatic paradigm -one where a warship's mundane firepower brings more destruction to a world than the rare, much dreaded and memorable use of Exterminatus weapon arrays- is literally all over the place.
The same kind of issue that would happen with Saxton and Wong's work. Fortunately enough, it seems that very few authors cared about the silly numbers they argued for, and there had been some resistance from inside LucasPublishing, but after taking notice of the weird 40K canon, there's no reason for such a thing not to happen.
In the game of versus debates, this kinda represents a problem, when one side may get its views validated in official literature in the age of Internet, where a few keystrokes won't be enough to tell you that the information you're reading is patently inaccurate.

[ultra late edit to add the quotation of Connor's words]

[Mith]

Wonder when this would show up.

[Mike DiCenso]

In the game of versus debates, this kinda represents a problem, when one side may get its views validated in official literature in the age of Internet, where a few keystrokes won't be enough to tell you that the information you're reading is patently inaccurate.

This is nothing new as well you know. The prime example of this in Versus debates is the distortion of the Base Delta Zero from Star Wars' EU, in particular the "Scavenger Hunt" sourcebook's description of the bombardment of the Rebel base on Dankayo.

It really does not suprise me that the text for WH40K is being similarly distorted, since WH40K is the new one to wank up now that SW's credibility has largely fallen among fans.
-Mike

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

It had gone dormant for a while, then someone bumped it, I think it's Penguin something, and it then beast woke up, out of slumber, when Ricrery1 returned.
page 13
You may chose to read some of the former pages, in any case.
I'm still baffled by the absolute mediocrity of Connor's logic and claims.
Just a quick examples here, since I cannot resist:
:]
Connor considers that if the opposition cannot explain the physics behind a given piece of technology, then said piece of technology is to be ignored.
How many times have we seen bad debaters use such silly logic, really?

It is a SDN conceit i addressed along with others when the abilities of Borg nanoprobes were summarily dismissed because the SDN page said "REAL" nanites cannot do those things.

[Khas]

Ya know, given SDN's love for WH40K, and leftist membership, what kind of reaction do you think they'd have if told the little fact that a good chunk of the 40K Fandom is comprised of Neo-Nazis?

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Ya know, given SDN's love for WH40K, and leftist membership, what kind of reaction do you think they'd have if the little fact that a good chunk of the 40K Fandom is comprised of Neo-Nazis?

Typical "wannabe seen as leftist" self-righteous apologist bullshit most likely.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway has anybody got info on this stuff:

1. Can all Imperium ships land and take off from a planet or are some unable to do so and are stuck in space.


2. How quickly do 40k ships accelerate to this 0.75c combat speed people keep preaching about.



Also this part of the quote:

Had Gundrum’s ship been a crude planet-to-planet vessel, relying solely on a reaction motor, nothing could have saved them from its exhaust as it took off. But it was not. Like every other interstellar craft its mass was reduced by controlled inertial fields.

So firstly planet hoppers that presumably take off and land a considerable amount do not have mass lightening that is really odd if its use is solely for lift off. In fact it is a ability specifically used on interstellar craft according to the quote.

An incongruously small thrust was enough to lift it off an Earth-sized planet. Splashing over the wet ground, they felt a wave of heat hit them as white brilliance surged from the ship’s twin venturae.

It accelerated, became a dot, and then vanished.

No flaming or other effects in the atmosphere mentioned as it lifts off (like space vessels have on re-entry) could give us a maximum velocity as at a certain speed friction is going to cause those effects.

[Mith]

In regards to SuperS4's ruling, I resent his declaration of a winner and I vehemently disagreed with his response that I need to go so far to prove something that's plainly obvious. However, I will say I can see where he's coming from, so I don't think anyone here should go for the "corrupt mod" bit.

[Mike DiCenso]

Ya know, given SDN's love for WH40K, and leftist membership, what kind of reaction do you think they'd have if told the little fact that a good chunk of the 40K Fandom is comprised of Neo-Nazis?

Do you have proof that a large portion of WH40k's fandom is made up of Neo-Nazis?
-Mike

[Mith]

Ya know, given SDN's love for WH40K, and leftist membership, what kind of reaction do you think they'd have if told the little fact that a good chunk of the 40K Fandom is comprised of Neo-Nazis?

Do you have proof that a large portion of WH40k's fandom is made up of Neo-Nazis?
-Mike

Does it matter? What if 48% of all mass murderers loved Star Trek? It has no bearing upon the actual quality and aims of the franchise. Just look at the MLP: Friendship is Magic. Vast majority of older people watch it when it was intended for little girls in the range of 3-5.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

In regards to SuperS4's ruling, I resent his declaration of a winner and I vehemently disagreed with his response that I need to go so far to prove something that's plainly obvious. However, I will say I can see where he's coming from, so I don't think anyone here should go for the "corrupt mod" bit.

I dislike the whole demand for a direct quote thing as it is used to dismiss a lot of obvious things, however that does not mean it is a bad thing when used correctly.

It is undeniable that they use thrusters to slow and maneuver but it is also undeniable that the main engines are vastly larger and more powerful than the thrusters so should not be able to slow the ship in anything like a reasonable time frame compared to the acceleration from the big boys at the back.

Obviously mass lightening would solve this but also mean that small engines could propel the ship thus making the main engines at the back redundant.

I would look for more examples of mass lightening being in effect or being directly mentioned before moving forwards with this.

[Mike DiCenso]

Ya know, given SDN's love for WH40K, and leftist membership, what kind of reaction do you think they'd have if told the little fact that a good chunk of the 40K Fandom is comprised of Neo-Nazis?

Do you have proof that a large portion of WH40k's fandom is made up of Neo-Nazis?
-Mike

Does it matter? What if 48% of all mass murderers loved Star Trek? It has no bearing upon the actual quality and aims of the franchise. Just look at the MLP: Friendship is Magic. Vast majority of older people watch it when it was intended for little girls in the range of 3-5.

I'm just curious where you got that information from is all, Mith. If someone said the same about Star Trek, I'd still ask. MLP, the current one anyway, was rebooted by a Deviant Art fan, and it quickly became an internet phenomena, before being relaunched as a series, so the original demographics don't count.
-Mike

[Mith]

I'm just curious where you got that information from is all, Mith. If someone said the same about Star Trek, I'd still ask. MLP, the current one anyway, was rebooted by a Deviant Art fan, and it quickly became an internet phenomena, before being relaunched as a series, so the original demographics don't count.
-Mike

Oh, I didn't get it from anywhere (save for MLP, ie, its viewership increased like 1.4 million adults per month of the first season). My point was that we shouldn't judge fans of a franchise because some other fans are less than savory characters. :)

[Khas]

I never said that I judge Warhammer 40K by its fanbase. My main fic on this site is a ST/40K X-over BTW. :)

I'm just saying that I thought it would be funny if SDN learned that about the 40K fandom.

[Mike DiCenso]

Ah okay.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

In regards to SuperS4's ruling, I resent his declaration of a winner and I vehemently disagreed with his response that I need to go so far to prove something that's plainly obvious. However, I will say I can see where he's coming from, so I don't think anyone here should go for the "corrupt mod" bit.

And where is he coming from exactly?