Re: Another Blow to Hypermatter Fuel's Existence?

[Khas]

Tyralak would have the links.

[Praeothmin]

No, people who are not idiots.

Prove it!
I disagree with the majority of Wong's stance on SW vs ST, yet I don't consider myself an idiot.
Please provide evidence that I am, since this is what you are saying, that anybody disagreeing with Wong is an idiot...

[sonofccn]

An interesting trend is that smart liberals can easily outdebate conservatives on anything, mainly because the stances the right takes are often ridiculously irrational and stupid.

And we say the exact same thing about you. :)

And spacebattles standards.

Even by spacebattles standards Alyeska is by no means definatively pro-trek, there are multiple pro-trek voices on spacebattles and I'm not sure Alyeska would agree with them more than the "Pro-Wars" side.

And real life standards

By what criteria is "real life" now judging a small niche hobby?

No, people who are not idiots.

Well I'll be the first to admit I'm a dim bulb it just boggles the mind that EVERYONE who disagrees with him is a drooler. An amazing statisical occurance I would say for there to be such a sharp and clear divide between camps unless...unless it isn't by accident!* The whole versus debate is merely a ruse, a smoke screen for his true objective of uniting smarty pants people together the world over. Yes! Then when the time is right they'll all sneak aboard Floating Utopia Island( previously known as Canada) that he'd perfected using their super book learning where they can live unfetted by us stupid bumpkings. Plus throw things down at us and laugh, but intelligently while explaining the full physics involved to our feeble, puny minds. :)

* why yes it is a joke, thank you for asking.

[Mr. Oragahn]

No, people who are not idiots.

Prove it!
I disagree with the majority of Wong's stance on SW vs ST, yet I don't consider myself an idiot.
Please provide evidence that I am, since this is what you are saying, that anybody disagreeing with Wong is an idiot...

I disagree. I agree with Wong and I'm an idiot. Please provide evidence of the contrary if you can!

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

No he's not. Wong is ant-Israel, this does not make him anti-semite.

You are jerking off to a dude who argued that insulting people can save babies along with promoting the use of insults that reference the mentally ill and disabled.

He also has issue with certain parts of Canada being racist due to the crime stats ect of those areas being lower than others from what i recall.

No, people who are not idiots.

The term "idiot" would apply to those who disagree with him IF they did not see through his piss awful arguments however people "idiotic" enough to buy his crap seem to be limited to the warsie community.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

You know guys, if you think that Mike Wong is an idiot, why don't you go shoot him an email and challenge him to a debate, where after you obviously kick his ass (like you all think you can do), you can post it on SDN, spacebattles and here, making an enormous blow to the pro Wars side and making Mike Wong look like a fool.

Well, Mike Wong has been less active on SDN, so maybe you could post your arguments on SDN and watch as the Evil Warsies cower at your awesome Trekkie might, thus putting a crippling blow on their side and making any newcomer to the debate look at the debate and say "wow, the ST side is so much more rational and persuasive! ST wins!"

But you don't do this, for obvious reasons.

[Praeothmin]

You know guys, if you think that Mike Wong is an idiot, why don't you go shoot him an email and challenge him to a debate, where after you obviously kick his ass (like you all think you can do), you can post it on SDN, spacebattles and here, making an enormous blow to the pro Wars side and making Mike Wong look like a fool.

Well, Mike Wong has been less active on SDN, so maybe you could post your arguments on SDN and watch as the Evil Warsies cower at your awesome Trekkie might, thus putting a crippling blow on their side and making any newcomer to the debate look at the debate and say "wow, the ST side is so much more rational and persuasive! ST wins!"

But you don't do this, for obvious reasons.

Yes, the obvious reason is that, like you, Mike Wong ignores everything in Trek that goes against his views...
He also insults anyone who disagrees with him, and uses his Engineering diploma as proof of his superior intelligence (which doesn't prove anything except he studeid to get his diploma, and I know a few dumb Engineers without any common sense or logic)...

Plus, why go to SDN to debate people who ignore evidence against their views when we have you?

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

You know guys, if you think that Mike Wong is an idiot, why don't you go shoot him an email and challenge him to a debate, where after you obviously kick his ass (like you all think you can do), you can post it on SDN, spacebattles and here, making an enormous blow to the pro Wars side and making Mike Wong look like a fool.

Well, Mike Wong has been less active on SDN, so maybe you could post your arguments on SDN and watch as the Evil Warsies cower at your awesome Trekkie might, thus putting a crippling blow on their side and making any newcomer to the debate look at the debate and say "wow, the ST side is so much more rational and persuasive! ST wins!"

But you don't do this, for obvious reasons.

I head over to SDN every few months and post a few inconvenient facts that normally ends in a ban for "bad debating" that essentially translates to "pointing out their bullshit".

[Admiral Breetai]

SW vs ST aside, Wong's arguments on Evolution vs Creationism and various other (far more important) topics are very persuasive, and you'd be hard pressed to see him actually get stumped by a creationist. I disagree with him on some aspects, but on politics and science I happen to agree with most of his points before I even read his blog. An interesting trend is that smart liberals can easily outdebate conservatives on anything, mainly because the stances the right takes are often ridiculously irrational and stupid.

that's a bad joke even Richard Dawkins comes off more open minded and tolerant then him and his followers

Mind you, what's wrong with being anti-Judaic or anti-Zionist, the actually most popular branch of Judaism??

what's wrong with hating Jews? really? might as well ask what's wrong with the KKK's or those westbourogh lunatics stances then

You know guys, if you think that Mike Wong is an idiot, why don't you go shoot him an email and challenge him to a debate, where after you obviously kick his ass (like you all think you can do), you can post it on SDN, spacebattles and here, making an enormous blow to the pro Wars side and making Mike Wong look like a fool.

mike wong already looks bad in the minds of many non fanatic warises the vast and silent majority...many of his early followers I debated against on CBR have openly abandoned him...seeing the folly of his ways.

as for this part of the post Darkstar did it resulted in harassment threats of litigation and a multi forum wide attempt to convince every one he was full of shit.

Well, Mike Wong has been less active on SDN, so maybe you could post your arguments on SDN and watch as the Evil Warsies cower at your awesome Trekkie might, thus putting a crippling blow on their side and making any newcomer to the debate look at the debate and say "wow, the ST side is so much more rational and persuasive! ST wins!"

But you don't do this, for obvious reasons.

yeah...and this wasn't a troll post?

[Jedi Master Spock]

You know guys, if you think that Mike Wong is an idiot, why don't you go shoot him an email and challenge him to a debate, where after you obviously kick his ass (like you all think you can do), you can post it on SDN, spacebattles and here, making an enormous blow to the pro Wars side and making Mike Wong look like a fool.

Well, Mike Wong has been less active on SDN, so maybe you could post your arguments on SDN and watch as the Evil Warsies cower at your awesome Trekkie might, thus putting a crippling blow on their side and making any newcomer to the debate look at the debate and say "wow, the ST side is so much more rational and persuasive! ST wins!"

But you don't do this, for obvious reasons.

The "obvious reasons" are that it's been done before; Mike Wong has been made to look like a fool many times; he's been "defeated" in debate many times - if by "defeated" we mean "proven wrong." We've even heard this exact sales pitch made before. Some of the posters here have even taken up the challenge before and had a big dramatic formal debate with Wong - you can ask 2046 how much traffic that part of his website gets compared to the actual articles. I don't know, but I suspect it's less.

Not much has changed as a result of these big public debates. The main effect has been to demonstrate that Mike Wong and the SDN community love ad hominem attacks. You don't really have to look past the episode between Graham Kennedy and Mike Wong to know this; nobody actually cares about the VS topics the two of them talked about.

Everybody, here or on SDN, is much more interested in Graham Kennedy's credentials, how they measure up compared to Wong's, and whether or not the harassment of Graham Kennedy was over the top. What does that mean for anybody interested in actually convincing people?

At this point quite a few people know that the Saxtonites are wrong, on SB, on SFJ, on ST.com, on TFN, et cetera. About three quarters of the population of SB.com thinks the ICS doesn't accurately represent the Star Wars universe. It just so happens that the minority has included staff members at SB.com, who have acted to stifle debate on the topic.

This hasn't come from people challenging Mike Wong to e-mail debates and defeating him; it's come from people actually laying out arguments in discussion forums and defending them. And that's what newcomers to the debate actually see; not some re-posted exchange of e-mails buried somewhere on SB or SFJ, but posters on some forum arguing with each other.

If you want to convince people, you go find where the argument is happening on the internet and stick your nose into it. I've done that.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Mind you, what's wrong with being anti-Judaic or anti-Zionist, the actually most popular branch of Judaism??

what's wrong with hating Jews? really? might as well ask what's wrong with the KKK's or those westbourogh lunatics stances then

KKK mostly had an obsession with the race. As for religion, although most popular forms of Judaism today pretend there's a genetic lineage that was never broken, making the Jews a "people" which, since Judaism is transmitted through the mother, would also make them a race of some kind. Add to that the very detabable idea that the Jews of today would be those who walked over Palestine thousands of years ago, and you get a rather complicated issue at hand, since they mix belief, race and laws altogether (Islam mixes the first two, Christianity has rather tried to keep both separated with more or less success).

When I'm talking about the religions, I'm not talking about their members as individuals.
Being anti-X, be it Islam, Christianity or Judaism is a right, as much as one can be anti-Scientology. Are you afraid of the term "anti" perhaps?
To me, it's the same, baring the motivations behind those religions (Christianity and Islam did spread that far because of political interests, Scientology is most largely done for business).
Besides, there's no rule up in the sky that says you should accept everything and even like everybody.
If you think the values you believe in are on some topics, fundamentally opposed to others and don't mesh well with your culture, society and even nation, it's your right not to like those other cultures.

[Admiral Breetai]

I have no problems with Anti I'm a very proud Anti-conspiracy theorist after all

my issue is that the Jews consider themselves Tribes and a people with a lineage that dates back that far. their enemies consider them a race...historically they're considered a "tribe" or have been by ciritics and supporters alike

a Tribe does not necessarily need genetic lineage to be a protected minority there are numerous Indian tribes in south Florida that are nearly exclusively white and African American descent with very few actual natives remaining in the tribe and most of those being multiethnic..due to them welcoming criminals and escaped slaves and Refugees into their tribes hundreds of years ago.

the Jews should be accorded similar I should think certainly their detractors treat the matter that way

[Mr. Oragahn]

I have no problems with Anti I'm a very proud Anti-conspiracy theorist after all

my issue is that the Jews consider themselves Tribes and a people with a lineage that dates back that far. their enemies consider them a race...historically they're considered a "tribe" or have been by ciritics and supporters alike

a Tribe does not necessarily need genetic lineage to be a protected minority there are numerous Indian tribes in south Florida that are nearly exclusively white and African American descent with very few actual natives remaining in the tribe and most of those being multiethnic..due to them welcoming criminals and escaped slaves and Refugees into their tribes hundreds of years ago.

the Jews should be accorded similar I should think certainly their detractors treat the matter that way

It's a complex issue, but thus far, in mainstream Judaism, they're all one people. Well, that's how it's sold outside of Judaism. Inside of it, some think the Ashkenazi sit atop the Sephardi. Well anyway I don't plan to discuss that topic that far so I agree with all and nothing.

[Admiral Breetai]

It's a complex issue, but thus far, in mainstream Judaism, they're all one people. Well, that's how it's sold outside of Judaism. Inside of it, some think the Ashkenazi sit atop the Sephardi. Well anyway I don't plan to discuss that topic that far so I agree with all and nothing.

it is a complicated issue..there's even a tribe in Africa that claims to be the "lost tribe" of Isreal or some such

[Mr. Oragahn]

It's a complex issue, but thus far, in mainstream Judaism, they're all one people. Well, that's how it's sold outside of Judaism. Inside of it, some think the Ashkenazi sit atop the Sephardi. Well anyway I don't plan to discuss that topic that far so I agree with all and nothing.

it is a complicated issue..there's even a tribe in Africa that claims to be the "lost tribe" of Isreal or some such

Oh yes, I've read that one. I'm not even sure if they're that different from the guys who claim that Jesus was black and that the black people of Africa are Israel (the basic argument being that Israel is more like a concept, etc.).
Ow... good night.