this thread is really is just tragic

[Admiral Breetai]

I mean what ever SB.com biased is always epic but this monstrosity of reaching a whole new level of epic fail I mean there are now multiple posters openly accusing the mods of biased...I've never seen this on SB before..I can't tell if this means we're going to get our own version of "a day of rage" type protests or something but..wow

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=184717

four decades of prep more or less it seems..and they're still loosing? and Leo1 has to be a beacon of wisdom and brilliance

thoughts?

[Jedi Master Spock]

Episodes Leo1 has referenced regarding phaser rifle / hand phaser firepower: 2
... that Leo1 referred to before Kor did: 0
... that Kor has referenced relevant to phaser rifle / hand phaser firepower, which Leo1 has not even attempted to address: 4

Glaringly obvious problem with Leo1's interpretation of total phaser rifle efficiency that Kor hasn't mentioned: 140 kilowatts of radiated thermal energy would cook Geordi like he was in a microwave oven. 140 megawatts would as well, of course, but 140 kilowatts is more than sufficient to provide a logical contradiction to the model.

This is all pretty normal for SBC. I don't see much more complaining about moderator bias in this particular thread you've linked to than I'm used to seeing in SBC threads linked to from here.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Well, in ENT's "Regeneration", phase pistols were quite dangerous.
First seen at the beginning, when two scientists run through tempest to get back to the medical bay as one of their comrades yells while being assaulted by a Borg drone. You have a large view of the complex as the male and female scientists run, and two shots are quickly seen lancing towards the sky from the medical bay. When the two scientists reach the medical "building", they pass in front of the metal wall and it shows two gaping and smoking fissures in it, over one meter long each.
Later on, when Reed is trying to increase the particle yield, as the proper level of energy to be applied to phase pistols by cross-polarizing their power cells, and he's fiddling with settings from 5 to 10 MJ, although the wording is a bit cryptic cause he's speaking of power, and they keep the pistol firing at a plate of alloy. Could be megajoules per second, which is quite extreme for hand weapons, or megajoules per whatever amount of time they use for a single burst for a complete test - but there are limits to that because I don't really seem them speaking of megajoules if they would have to keep firing at the same target for dozens and dozens of seconds.
Reed first says "increase the power another five megajoules."
Then seven, eight, nine and ten.
Would that mean they already were firing megajoules per burst? Another five MJ implies that, and possibly already firing at 5 MJ.
However, Reed also said that he "doubled the particle yield" and that "it may take a few seconds to recharge after each shot."
This reminds me of the Cardassian rifle from "Return to Grace", which had to recharge as well, although it was measured in milliseconds, but had a fixed power rated in megajoules as well. It was opposed to the Federation rifle which had a fully autonomous recharge, meaning that the Cardassian rifle had no capacity of a full autonomous recharge, and most likely had to rely on a power battery to be plugged to in order to get a full recharge, even if it was very fast (basically, you plug it and unplug it immediately).
This was my take on it, meaning the Cardassian simple infantry weapon had a max energy stock of 4.7 MJ.
So following this logic, with the more primitive phase pistols, the megajoule power rate could easily be a reference to the power capacity after a pistol would be fully charged.
That said, I say primitive, but since Reed says that it may take a couple seconds to recharge after each shot, it both means the pistol can fire its entire charge in one burst (so that's some 10 MJ tops) and it is capable of autonomous recharge.
It's more than enough to match the large breaches in the wall at the beginning of the episode btw.

Quite safely, we could think the firepower would be in the high kilowatt, and possibly in the megawatt range, although there's no telling how long they could keep firing those weapons at such a rate (in total).
What's also impressive is that the Borg drones didn't explode like mad when hit by such yields with pistols on maximum, and a single drone's shields easily tanked the maximum setting shots of a pistol and two rifles, before Reed made modifications. They later adapted to that. Now, it doesn't mean each drone produces that much power (they could remotely tap into the ship's power grid) but you get to know what you're up to anyway once aboard a Borg ship.

[Mike DiCenso]

This is not the only time we see high firepower output indications with regards to the phase pistols. In the first season episode "Civilization", Archer heats up an oil lamp 300 degrees C to provide a distraction. The lamp explodes within a couple of seconds of being hit by the beam.

In the second season episode "Dead Stop", in order to escape the repair station's core with Travis, Archer and T'Pol use their pistols to blast their way out of the room and into a corridor as seen here at 7:56 through 8:13. Note that it only takes a few seconds to blast through, and then look at the substantial, charred debris littering the floor as well as the carbon-scored hole they climb through.
-Mike

[Praeothmin]

But see, these facts must be ignored as they go against what Leo1 believes is true... :-)

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

But see, these facts must be ignored as they go against what Leo1 believes is true... :-)

My favorite is him claiming that the power cell during the phaser rifle test was actually in the stand it was on so the reading they gave was irrelevant while the rest of the details they have were all about the phaser rifle itself.

Even more so when the actual evidence of romulan involvment in regards to the rifles was that the phaser rifles power cell was charged from a romulan power source.

This is all in regards to his definition of "capacity" and "recharge" during kiras brefing of ze-al on the cardassian rifle, the fed rifle easily fired for 25 seconds at 1.05 megajoules per second without looking like it was running low until it was switched off.

While the cardassian rifle according to leo1 had a max "capacity" of 4.7mj before being totally empty, but was supposedly more powerful.

Yes i know "capacity" is not the same as power but it would mean that the cardassian rifle could only fire for 4ish seconds before being utterly drained and empty at the fed rifles level mentioned, while the fed rifle easily fired for 25 seconds at that level without looking like it was every gonna run out any time soon.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Episodes Leo1 has referenced regarding phaser rifle / hand phaser firepower: 2
... that Leo1 referred to before Kor did: 0
... that Kor has referenced relevant to phaser rifle / hand phaser firepower, which Leo1 has not even attempted to address: 4

Glaringly obvious problem with Leo1's interpretation of total phaser rifle efficiency that Kor hasn't mentioned: 140 kilowatts of radiated thermal energy would cook Geordi like he was in a microwave oven. 140 megawatts would as well, of course, but 140 kilowatts is more than sufficient to provide a logical contradiction to the model.

He claims that in that scene the stand it was on protected geordie..:).

He then said that without the stand starfleet must have protectve clothing for using phaseers on the higher settings...:).

I challenged him to prove this by showing the clothing or burns ect on officers not with it on, and he did a couple of SDN classics:

1. He called me a creationalist or at least made reference to me having a simular argument.

2. He ignored the demand for links to this clothing and or burns and started shouting about how retarded i was for thinking that with 140KJ per second pumping into the surroundings that people would not need protective clothing and that i fail physics forever ect ect lol.

Pathetic really.

[Mr. Oragahn]

What's going on exactly in that thread by now?
Couldn't you clean it up a bit and make a sort of concise post?

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

What's going on exactly in that thread by now?
Couldn't you clean it up a bit and make a sort of concise post?

I will do but sb.com seems a bit gimped at the moment.

[Admiral Breetai]

I always find SDN derision of religion really amusing especially when they mock the bible

it has..a great deal more credibility and validity..for a great deal more people..then Curtis Saxton and Mike wong could ever hope too have

you'd also think Since guys like Steven friggen hawking seem absolutely convinced theres a god..they'd stop the whole "HERP A DERP CURZ I'M SMARTZ ENOUGHS TO MAKES MATHS..YOU STUPID CULTIST..ARE INFERIOR"-since possessing of a high IQ and a firm (and certainly mister hawking is superior in this regard in every conceivable way to any poster on SDN) grasp of the sciences..does not seem to automatically immunize a person from a belief..that's illogical and what have you.

I mean I'm an atheist..and the attitude..(while possessing blatant religious reverence of a near fanatical and cult like mind set for the EU and Wong and Saxton's conclusions especially) is hilariously pathetic and hypocritical and wreaks of that inquisition like "righteousness" that comes with being so secure..in your beliefs that it's totally valid to call kor a creationist in a debate as if it where the death Nell on a persons ability to have a rational discussion- is absolutely disgusting and mind bogglingly ignorant..in and of itself and suggests the polar opposite of an intelligent and well informed mind and of a mentally sound one at that

never mind Leo1 may as well be the follower of a cult for the attitude he shows

[Lucky]

But see, these facts must be ignored as they go against what Leo1 believes is true... :-)

My favorite is him claiming that the power cell during the phaser rifle test was actually in the stand it was on so the reading they gave was irrelevant while the rest of the details they have were all about the phaser rifle itself.

Even more so when the actual evidence of romulan involvment in regards to the rifles was that the phaser rifles power cell was charged from a romulan power source.

This is all in regards to his definition of "capacity" and "recharge" during kiras brefing of ze-al on the cardassian rifle, the fed rifle easily fired for 25 seconds at 1.05 megajoules per second without looking like it was running low until it was switched off.

While the cardassian rifle according to leo1 had a max "capacity" of 4.7mj before being totally empty, but was supposedly more powerful.

Yes i know "capacity" is not the same as power but it would mean that the cardassian rifle could only fire for 4ish seconds before being utterly drained and empty at the fed rifles level mentioned, while the fed rifle easily fired for 25 seconds at that level without looking like it was every gonna run out any time soon.

Isn't it possible that the recharge rate refers to refilling capacitors rather then the actual power source?

[2046]

I always find SDN derision of religion really amusing especially when they mock the bible

it has..a great deal more credibility and validity..for a great deal more people..then Curtis Saxton and Mike wong could ever hope too have

At times, it's even far better at science than they are. And that's saying something.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

But see, these facts must be ignored as they go against what Leo1 believes is true... :-)

My favorite is him claiming that the power cell during the phaser rifle test was actually in the stand it was on so the reading they gave was irrelevant while the rest of the details they have were all about the phaser rifle itself.

Even more so when the actual evidence of romulan involvment in regards to the rifles was that the phaser rifles power cell was charged from a romulan power source.

This is all in regards to his definition of "capacity" and "recharge" during kiras brefing of ze-al on the cardassian rifle, the fed rifle easily fired for 25 seconds at 1.05 megajoules per second without looking like it was running low until it was switched off.

While the cardassian rifle according to leo1 had a max "capacity" of 4.7mj before being totally empty, but was supposedly more powerful.

Yes i know "capacity" is not the same as power but it would mean that the cardassian rifle could only fire for 4ish seconds before being utterly drained and empty at the fed rifles level mentioned, while the fed rifle easily fired for 25 seconds at that level without looking like it was every gonna run out any time soon.

Isn't it possible that the recharge rate refers to refilling capacitors rather then the actual power source?

Very likely actually given other material.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

I kinda suck at science but at 14% of the power being released onto the user im sure that even at a weedy melt a block of butter setting its gonna burn the user right?.

Just how low would the power need to be for the dude holding it to be totally unharmed and not even notice the 14% leo1 claims is effecting him?.

[Mr. Oragahn]

I always find SDN derision of religion really amusing especially when they mock the bible

it has..a great deal more credibility and validity..for a great deal more people..then Curtis Saxton and Mike wong could ever hope too have

you'd also think Since guys like Steven friggen hawking seem absolutely convinced theres a god..they'd stop the whole "HERP A DERP CURZ I'M SMARTZ ENOUGHS TO MAKES MATHS..YOU STUPID CULTIST..ARE INFERIOR"-since possessing of a high IQ and a firm (and certainly mister hawking is superior in this regard in every conceivable way to any poster on SDN) grasp of the sciences..does not seem to automatically immunize a person from a belief..that's illogical and what have you.

I mean I'm an atheist..and the attitude..(while possessing blatant religious reverence of a near fanatical and cult like mind set for the EU and Wong and Saxton's conclusions especially) is hilariously pathetic and hypocritical and wreaks of that inquisition like "righteousness" that comes with being so secure..in your beliefs that it's totally valid to call kor a creationist in a debate as if it where the death Nell on a persons ability to have a rational discussion- is absolutely disgusting and mind bogglingly ignorant..in and of itself and suggests the polar opposite of an intelligent and well informed mind and of a mentally sound one at that

never mind Leo1 may as well be the follower of a cult for the attitude he shows

I remember them trying the creationist attack a couple of times, yeeeears ago, but it didn't last long. Especially since it was so easy to flip around.